Would You Dismantle the Underground Railroad?

[Walt]

So... you would be okay with letting them stay enslaved longer if it meant them getting to be the ones who pulled the trigger on their liberation?

A huge chunk of the US Army at the end of the Civil War was Black. It was about 10%, but towards the end of the war, and in the bigger battles was closer to 25%.

 

[Walt]

Haiti is a success?.......

The United States forced Haiti to pay France ruinous high costs for their freedom, or be cutoff from world trade by the US Navy. Originally, it was very much in the United States' interest to make a former slave country into a failure, because we were a slave country. Then it continued until 1949, just by force of habit. But for 140 years, Haiti had to pay France a huge amount of their economy's production.

 

[artichoke]

Let's start with the non-hypothetical part of it all. There was an Underground Railroad, and about a hundred thousand out of nearly four million slaves escaped. That created a large pressure point as a hundred thousand people proved they were good people who had been persecuted by the slaveholders. This made it more and more difficult for slavery to exist in a free nation.

Yes, removing all the slaves who had the potential to rise up and end slavery clearly hastened the demise of slavery.

What towering intellectual giants Democrats are.

Without them, slavery never would have ended.

Or, slavery was prolonged by removing everyone who could've ended it.

That is why the Southern states were so hardcore against states rights when it came to states rights to allow people to be free.

Wow. The best way to defeat an idiot is to let him speak.

I truly feel no need to read further or comment on any part of this as it officially removes all doubt that you are a flaming imbecile.

Next.

 

[Walt]

Yes, removing all the slaves who had the potential to rise up and end slavery clearly hastened the demise of slavery.

Slave uprising are rarely successful, and are usually very brutal. When successful, most of the time, most non-slaves are murdered, and many times, many of the slaves are not freed. More likely, there is huge amounts of blood shed among the slaves, followed by worse slavery.

Let's use the Holocaust as an example. There were few escapes from the Concentration Camps, so under your theory, they rose up and the Holocaust was quickly ended from within. Except they did not. Not only that, but few on the outside knew how bad it was, so there was no a rush to end the Holocaust. More escapes would have meant more on the outside knew how bad things were.

 

[Walt]

Slavery as an institution would have died out on its own from both social pressure and technological advancement.

Horse riding has died out due to social pressures and technological advances... So do horses have equal rights to humans now? Or are there just fewer horses, with a few kept around to ride for special occasions.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Horse riding has died out due to social pressures and technological advances... So do horses have equal rights to humans now? Or are there just fewer horses, with a few kept around to ride for special occasions.

Horses were the beneficiary of the internal combustion engine, as was public health by phasing them out. Today, horses are a thing of privilege rather than a necessity. There was no social pressure to phase them out, just technology.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Slave uprising are rarely successful, and are usually very brutal. When successful, most of the time, most non-slaves are murdered, and many times, many of the slaves are not freed. More likely, there is huge amounts of blood shed among the slaves, followed by worse slavery.

Let's use the Holocaust as an example. There were few escapes from the Concentration Camps, so under your theory, they rose up and the Holocaust was quickly ended from within. Except they did not. Not only that, but few on the outside knew how bad it was, so there was no a rush to end the Holocaust. More escapes would have meant more on the outside knew how bad things were.

Don't forget the "Capos" these were Jews or others among the condemned who willingly cooperated with the Nazis to save their own skins even as they helped the Nazis kill their brethren.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Thought Experiment: You are able to go back in time, if you choose to, but only to one specific point to do one specific thing and immediately return. That specific action is to prevent the Underground Railroad from ever happening. Since the Underground Railroad served as a pressure valve, releasing the most bold, daring, and physically fit slaves at a steady pace, rather than letting them brood and eventually explode with violence and slave revolts against their masters...if you had the chance, would you undo it and let the slaves liberate themselves violently?

Keep in mind, this could result in the slaughter of millions of Southerners, the annihilation of the slave population, or something in between.

the underground railroad was noble and good.

this thread is insane.

 

[Walt]

Horses were the beneficiary of the internal combustion engine

Before the internal combustion engine, there were millions of them. Most of them were killed, because they were no longer needed. I think we have different definitions of beneficiaries.

 

[Flash]

So... you would be okay with letting them stay enslaved longer if it meant them getting to be the ones who pulled the trigger on their liberation?

It would only be longer for individuals using the Railroad. It would be sooner for the rest of the slaves.

I think Haiti is the only example of slaves winning their own freedom.

 

[Walt]

Don't forget the "Capos" these were Jews or others among the condemned who willingly cooperated with the Nazis to save their own skins even as they helped the Nazis kill their brethren.

Capos were inmates, sometimes Jews, but other times not. They did not willingly cooperate. No one said, "I want to be in a concentration camp as a prisoner, and one day die, just so I can be a capo." No they unwillingly cooperated to get their own lives spared for a time.

They were usually German. The Germans wanted to work with people who understood their language and culture.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Capos were inmates, sometimes Jews, but other times not. They did not willingly cooperate. No one said, "I want to be in a concentration camp as a prisoner, and one day die, just so I can be a capo." No they unwillingly cooperated to get their own lives spared for a time.

They were usually German. The Germans wanted to work with people who understood their language and culture.

Viktor Frankl in Man's Search for Meaning would vehemently disagree.

 

[RB 60]

And importation was already banned, and it was already universally condemned and being phased out all over the world. 650k Americans did not need to die just so Northern leftists could act like in-your-face psychos and force us to be the only country in the Western Hemisphere that had to go to war over it. Leftists are a plague on humanity.

What makes you think all Northerners are leftists?

 

[Minister of Truth]

Thought Experiment: You are able to go back in time, if you choose to, but only to one specific point to do one specific thing and immediately return. That specific action is to prevent the Underground Railroad from ever happening. Since the Underground Railroad served as a pressure valve, releasing the most bold, daring, and physically fit slaves at a steady pace, rather than letting them brood and eventually explode with violence and slave revolts against their masters...if you had the chance, would you undo it and let the slaves liberate themselves violently?

Keep in mind, this could result in the slaughter of millions of Southerners, the annihilation of the slave population, or something in between.

No, because, I support infrastructure.

 

[artichoke]

Slave uprising are rarely successful, and are usually very brutal.

Hence the whole point of the thread, about leaving the ones most likely to reverse that trend on the plantation to liberate the slaves.

When successful, most of the time, most non-slaves are murdered, and many times, many of the slaves are not freed. More likely, there is huge amounts of blood shed among the slaves, followed by worse slavery.

Let's use the Holocaust as an example. There were few escapes from the Concentration Camps, so under your theory, they rose up and the Holocaust was quickly ended from within.

That's NOT my theory. My theory is about not freeing the strongest, boldest, and most likely to succeed slaves to make a revolt more likely to work.

 

[artichoke]

the underground railroad was noble and good.

this thread is insane.

This post ignores everything being asked here to mindlessly state irrelevant platitudes.

Go lay down and let the adults finish their conversation.

 

[artichoke]

It would only be longer for individuals using the Railroad. It would be sooner for the rest of the slaves.

I think Haiti is the only example of slaves winning their own freedom.

These two statements seem contradictory:

1) Revolting would hasten their liberation

2) Revolting is almost guaranteed statistically not to work

 

[artichoke]

What makes you think all Northerners are leftists?

What makes you think I think that?

Correctly identifying Northern leftists as the people who forced the completely unnecessary and preventable slaughter of more than half a million Americans in no way implies that all Northerners must be leftists.

 

[artichoke]

No, because, I support infrastructure.

 

[Walt]

Hence the whole point of the thread, about leaving the ones most likely to reverse that trend on the plantation to liberate the slaves.

The problem is you believe that leaving those that can do the most in slavery, or allowing them to be executed if they cause too much trouble, is where they are most likely to dismantle the system. It did not work. On the other hand, having slaves escape, tell the world how bad the situation was, and RETURN to cause trouble... That did change things.