Young FREELY Choosing Not to Buy Health Insurance

Guys I'm really glad we had this discussion.

I had not the faintest clue about any of your opinions on healthcare.

Glad we cleared all this up.
 
RStringfield said:
Immie, the tying of health insurance to employment is a major source of the problem and the skyrocketing of costs.
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Oh, I agree, but so is greed. Greed on the side of the insurance companies. Greed on the side of the Health Profession. I imagine although can't prove it that there is greed on the side of the politicians taking contributions from both sides as well.

However, I can assure you that in today's world without employment offering health insurance benefits the percentage of non-insured would skyrocket.

Immie
 
Immanuel said:
Oh, I agree, but so is greed. Greed on the side of the insurance companies. Greed on the side of the Health Profession. I imagine although can't prove it that there is greed on the side of the politicians taking contributions from both sides as well.

However, I can assure you that in today's world without employment offering health insurance benefits the percentage of non-insured would skyrocket.

Immie
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Good!
 
We need greed of the consumer to balance it out. Everybody is "greedy." It is not like it is some affliction that only affects the insurance industry or medical profession. That greed does not allow prices in other areas to skyrocket. The problem is the disconnect between consumer and provider.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
Dano has always resorted to this type of ridiculous Non Sequitur. Young, healthy people have always been rather apathetic about health care. That is nothing new (despite Dano trying to pretend it is).

Dano is trying to imply that we should do away with health insure for they reasons he manufactures (but doesn't check for defects).

Guess what else young, healthy people usually don't bother with...

SAVINGS

Should we do away with savings accounts?
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What on earth? Where did I ever say we should do away with health insurance?

My point is that just about all young people could afford it if they really wanted to (ie: give up car, 2nd job, get roommate, overtime, cheaper housing, etc...). But they don't and why don't they? Because they don't consider it more important than those things they COULD sacrifice.
How much sense does it make to just tax them more so they are FORCED to give up something else in order to pay the taxes off their checks for healthcare? They've already decided their priorities, there is no reason to have government overrule them and pretend they know what is better for them.
 
it doesn't make sense and there isn't yet a talking point card for all the hard core lefties here to memorize yet.
It's kinda funny watching them try.
 
TheDanold said:
What on earth? Where did I ever say we should do away with health insurance?

My point is that just about all young people could afford it if they really wanted to (ie: give up car, 2nd job, get roommate, overtime, cheaper housing, etc...). But they don't and why don't they? Because they don't consider it more important than those things they COULD sacrifice.
How much sense does it make to just tax them more so they are FORCED to give up something else in order to pay the taxes off their checks for healthcare? They've already decided their priorities, there is no reason to have government overrule them and pretend they know what is better for them.
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This is once again total BS. Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true.
 
I have several friends who either own their own businesses, or their spouses do. They don't have insurance. So, surprise, surprise, they choose to work at the local grocery 28 hours a week, to get the family insurance. It's a bit less than a wash salary wise, but they have excellent coverage with $10 co pay and $5 meds.

I did the same when my COBRA ran out, when I was subbing and working many part time jobs. Back then I was working 65-90 hours per week, for 3 years. I had 2 kids in high school and one in middle school. It can be done.
 
Runyon said:
I have several friends who either own their own businesses, or their spouses do. They don't have insurance. So, surprise, surprise, they choose to work at the local grocery 28 hours a week, to get the family insurance. It's a bit less than a wash salary wise, but they have excellent coverage with $10 co pay and $5 meds.

I did the same when my COBRA ran out, when I was subbing and working many part time jobs. Back then I was working 65-90 hours per week, for 3 years. I had 2 kids in high school and one in middle school. It can be done.
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I didn't say it could not be done.

However, there are priorities.

The cost of health insurance is prohibitive. People are not going to want to work 65-90 a week just to pay for their health care especially young people who still believe they are invincible anyway.

Immie
 
Immanuel said:
I didn't say it could not be done.

However, there are priorities.

The cost of health insurance is prohibitive. People are not going to want to work 65-90 a week just to pay for their health care especially young people who still believe they are invincible anyway.

Immie
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It's like Bush said; working three jobs is "uniquely American".

It's something to aspire to as a society! USA Number 1!

If I did it, so can you , and you better, because you ain't getting it no easier than I got it, why should you? Let's not fix the system, let's spread that misery around.

And, we're overinsured anyway! The problem isn't Americans lacking health insurance, it's that Americans have too much insurance!
 
Immanuel said:
I didn't say it could not be done.

However, there are priorities.

The cost of health insurance is prohibitive. People are not going to want to work 65-90 a week just to pay for their health care especially young people who still believe they are invincible anyway.

Immie
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Sorry, but I think that taking responsibility for oneself is a big priority. Why should I take care of those who think so little of themselves?
 
TheDanold said:
So it is true that many young people simply freely choose NOT to pay for health insurance when they could spend their money elsewhere.

"YOUNG people are hard to pin down. They graduate from school. They jump between employers, or in and out of employment. They leave their parental home for a shared flat, a friend's couch, or a house they can scarcely afford. They move to New York, San Francisco, Portland, or even Austin.

And so they often wander away from the comforts of health-care insurance. According to the Census Bureau, almost 30% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 34 are uninsured. For people aged 45 to 64 the number is just 14%.

A healthy young person seldom requires medical attention. So forgoing insurance is an understandable decision."
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9905661

They or anyone else should not be FORCED to buy insurance and give up their freedom. People are responsible for themselves, despite "seemingly" good intentions from those on the far left, they should not be protected from their own decisions.
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i wonder why i bother to reply but here it is - most young people that forgo health insurance do so because they do not yet have children
AND people their age are least likely to need health insurance

some 'older' people forgo health insurance because either they cannot afford it or have sufficient funds not to need it

what are the stats for the 50+ group?
 
Runyon said:
Sorry, but I think that taking responsibility for oneself is a big priority. Why should I take care of those who think so little of themselves?
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Don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with you. What I was trying to say was that kids don't think they are going to need it. Why should they pay for insurance that they don't believe they are going to need? They can get that when they get old... like me. They are invincible, remember?

Then of course they get on their crotch rockets doing 120 zipping in an out of traffic and should they drop the bike and happen to survive, they expect us old people to pay for their medical treatment.

But, as for the cost of health insurance, we are in a crisis here. Businesses can no longer afford to pay for the insurance for their employees. It won't belong before those companies start dropping coverage just to survive and putting it on the shoulders of the employee. When that happens, most of us will not be able to afford it.

Immie
 
TheDanold said:
So it is true that many young people simply freely choose NOT to pay for health insurance when they could spend their money elsewhere.

"YOUNG people are hard to pin down. They graduate from school. They jump between employers, or in and out of employment. They leave their parental home for a shared flat, a friend's couch, or a house they can scarcely afford. They move to New York, San Francisco, Portland, or even Austin.

And so they often wander away from the comforts of health-care insurance. According to the Census Bureau, almost 30% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 34 are uninsured. For people aged 45 to 64 the number is just 14%.

A healthy young person seldom requires medical attention. So forgoing insurance is an understandable decision."
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9905661

They or anyone else should not be FORCED to buy insurance and give up their freedom. People are responsible for themselves, despite "seemingly" good intentions from those on the far left, they should not be protected from their own decisions.
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Hell it would be allot cheaper for me personally to not carry full coverage health insurance and perhaps just to carry insurance for anything over 2K in costs. I go to the doctors like once every 2 years if that yet i pay thousands a year in coverage.
 
I'd love to see a GOP politician run on a platform of "just get a 2nd (or 3rd) job" as the solution for healthcare...
 
Actually that is a great idea.

We can have testimonials from people like Runyon.

"I worked 65 - 90 hour weeks. You can too. Vote Republican, and you will"

That's a winning campaign, you're right.
 
Darla said:
Actually that is a great idea.

We can have testimonials from people like Runyon.

"I worked 65 - 90 hour weeks. You can too. Vote Republican, and you will"

That's a winning campaign, you're right.
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Funny guys, I like the idea of your running testimonials promoting the ideas that those that work hard and provide their own insurance; work for an employer rather than themselves, trading off one goal for another; or get that extra job or two, should be forced by your party to pay for those that want everything their own way.

There are alternatives to having the government provide, but that would definately call for a mature citizenry, something you seem to be against.

Here's one example, just google Park School Baltimore they have 4 kids. Interesting how they want the 'public' to pay for their insurance, but public schools aren't ok for their kids. ;)
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDAzYjY5OWVkMmQxZTJmNTZlNDNjZTlhOGU3NjNlZDA=

Brother, can you spare a CHIP? [Mark Steyn]

This would seem to be a fairly typical media trajectory. The Democrats sign up a sick kid to read their Saturday morning radio address. As Paul Krugman has observed, Bill Kristol, Rush Limbaugh and the rest of us heartless bastards on the right were no doubt too busy laughing to pay attention. But the respectable media were very taken by it:

President Bush, are you smarter than a seventh-grader?

Apparently not. Graeme Frost of Baltimore is 12 years old, a seventh-grader at the Park School, and he understands why children need health care and their parents need help paying for it. He explained it during a rebuttal to the president's Saturday radio address. Yes, we know, Senate staffers wrote the speech for Graeme. That doesn't take away from the message. Does anyone really think President Bush writes his own material?

Of course not. And nor does The Baltimore Sun, which did a nice fluffy soft-focus story typing out the Dems' press release and not querying a word:

Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work.

If it ever occurred to Matthew Hay Brown, the Sun's "reporter", to look into just what kind of "woodworking" Mr Frost did, he managed to suppress the urge.

"icwhatudo" at Free Republic, however, showed rather more curiosity than the professional reporter paid to investigate the story and did a bit of Googling. Mr Frost, the "woodworker", owns his own design company and the commercial property it operates from, part of which space he also rents out; they have a 3,000-sq-ft home on a street where a 2,000-sq-ft home recently sold for half a million dollars; he was able to afford to send two children simultaneously to a $20,000-a-year private school; his father and grandfather were successful New York designers and architects; etc. This is apparently the new definition of "working families":

Had it not been for a federal health insurance program tailored for working families such as hers - ones lacking the income to purchase private health insurance - Frost is certain that she and her husband would be buried under a mound of unpaid medical bills... She and her husband have priced private health insurance, but they say it would cost them more per month than their mortgage - about $1,200 a month. Neither parent has health insurance through work.

Insureblog, also demonstrating more journalistic initiative than Mr Hay Brown, checked out that last bit:

A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.

Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That's almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn't anyone bother to check the facts?

But who needs facts when you've got the human-interest angle sewn up?

Bonnie Frost still can't drive down the road where the accident occurred...

Bad things happen to good people, and they cause financial problems and tough choices. But, if this is the face of the "needy" in America, then no-one is not needy. And, if everyone needs assistance from the federal government, so be it. But I don't think I want to drive down the road where Bonnie Frost wants to take us - because at the end of it there are no free-born citizens, just a nation where everyone is a ward of the state.
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