Althea
Althea told me...
You don't need to be asked to educate someone. Just say 'thanks' and move on.
Donald Trump 'voids' Joe Biden's pardons after former president used autopen signature
- Thread starter serendipity
- Start date
ZenMode
Well-known member
It's right there in black and white. The Justice Department literally says it has been done.
How is it that you "can't" do something that has already been done? It is impossible to fly at the speed of sound? Is it impossible to clime Mt. Everest? Is air travel impossible?
Again stop playing idiotic word games.
Last edited:
That is not true, there is precedent and everything. Shoot, George Washington preemptively pardoned folks that were involved in the Whiskey Rebellion... Really, it actually did happen. Below is a list of folks after George Washington that preemptively pardoned some people that are not Joseph Robinette Biden...
Andrew Johnson preemptively pardoned confederates... all of them, so long as they took an oath of allegiance.
Gerald Ford preemptively pardoned Nixon.
Jimmy Carter preemptively pardoned draft dodgers.
George HW Bush preemptively pardoned six Reagan administration officials for their part in the Iran Contra affair.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Magas are nuts, and that includes trump. he's desperate to deflect from his falling poll numbers, and the chaos he inflicted on the country.Trump says Biden’s pardons are now ‘void and vacant’ after autopen controversy
Trump says Biden’s pardons are now ‘void and vacant’ after autopen controversy
President ranted about previous pardons on Truth Social and issued new threat to January 6 investigatorswww.independent.co.uk
"It is not clear whether Biden actually used an autopen to sign the documents in question. And even if he did, legal experts say it's not clear the pardons could be rescinded — for that or any other reason.
Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, which grants presidents broad clemency powers, says the pardon only needs to be "accepted by its subject" to take effect — and does not mention anything about reversing them after the fact.
Jay Wexler, a professor of constitutional law at Boston University School of Law, told NPR he thinks the autopen issue is a "nonstarter" and a "distraction." Importantly, he says, there is nothing in the Constitution that requires pardons be in writing at all.
"The argument that the pardon fails because it was signed by an autopen fails at the get-go, because there's no requirement that the pardon even be signed," he explained."
christiefan915
Catalyst
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
He's not running for office, dummy.
For those that he did not sign, they are not valid.
Cry all you like, it won't change reality.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Nothing is more stupid and childish than trump holding up everything he signs, like a child who's looking for approval because he learned to write in cursive. Who the hell cares about trump's signature?BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
A PROCLAMATION
This proclamation ends a grave national injustice that has been perpetrated upon the American people over the last four years and begins a process of national reconciliation.
Acting pursuant to the grant of authority in Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution of the United States, I do hereby:
(a) commute the sentences of the following individuals convicted of offenses related to events that occurred at or near the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021, to time served as of January 20, 2025:
• Stewart Rhodes
• Kelly Meggs
• Kenneth Harrelson
• Thomas Caldwell
• Jessica Watkins
• Roberto Minuta
• Edward Vallejo
• David Moerschel
• Joseph Hackett
• Ethan Nordean
• Joseph Biggs
• Zachary Rehl
• Dominic Pezzola
• Jeremy Bertino
(b) grant a full, complete and unconditional pardon to all other individuals convicted of offenses related to events that occurred at or near the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021;
Granting Pardons And Commutation Of Sentences For Certain Offenses Relating To The Events At Or Near The United States Capitol On January 6, 2021
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION This proclamation ends a grave national injustice that has been perpetrated upon thewww.whitehouse.gov
View attachment 46026
Autopen was not used
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
Veggie Joe couldn't learn to sign his name, and now all the pardons he sold are invalid....
christiefan915
Catalyst
Thomas Jefferson used the 1800s version of an autopen.
"The autopen was patented in the US in 1803, and Jefferson wasted no time acquiring and using the machine. It’s worth noting that today’s autopen machines are different from the original ones used by Jefferson; in his day, it was known as a polygraph machine, and it would copy out entire letters while the person was writing."
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
There’s no historical evidence that Thomas Jefferson used an autopen as president. The autopen, a machine designed to automatically sign documents, wasn’t invented until the early 20th century—well after Jefferson’s presidency (1801–1809). The concept was patented by John Isaac Hawkins in 1803, but it was a rudimentary device for copying writing, not an automated signer like modern autopens. Jefferson, known for his interest in gadgets like the polygraph (a manual copying device), might have been intrigued by such technology, but it didn’t exist in a practical form during his time.
He did, however, rely on secretaries and clerks to handle correspondence, especially as his workload grew. Jefferson was a prolific letter writer—over 19,000 letters are attributed to him—so he likely used human assistance rather than any mechanical substitute. If you’re picturing him with a robot arm signing declarations, sorry to disappoint—it was all quill and ink!
@Grok
christiefan915
Catalyst
As if President "tangles and plaques" trump is fit to comment on anybody's mental acuity.
The brain on the right is comparable to trump's.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Must be true if "Terry Turnipseed" says so.The President and the Autopen: It is Unconstitutional for Someone or Something to Sign a Bill Outside of the President's Presence
In sum, the President’s use of the auto-pen (or even a human being) to sign a bill outside of the President’s presence is unconstitutional. This establishes a dangerous precedent, one which every thinking lawyer in Washington politics seemed to have overlooked. Let the auto-pen episode not be a precedent for this or any other President to follow. The Constitution does not allow for shortcuts.
The President and the Autopen: It is Unconstitutional for Someone or Something to Sign a Bill Outside of the President's Presence
On May 26, 2011, only hours before three provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act were scheduled to expire, Congress passed an extension. For daypapers.ssrn.com
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
christiefan915
Catalyst
trump only "alleges" that the pardons were signed by autopen. Let's see his proof.
Into the Night
Verified User
Buzzword fallacy.
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
Into the Night
Verified User
No, you can't Damo. It violates the 5th amendment.
How to you 'pardon' someone for something they've never done????
No court has authority to change any constitution, Damo.