7.6% unemployment in MI now.

theMAJORITY

MAJORITYrules-sorry
3 days ago, it was 7.4%

That is not the only income problem for our own people. We also make less money than we used to, and raises are not keepiong up with the cost of living. What does that mean? You don't have a futrure if your at least not lkeeping up with the cost of living.

Can one of you conditioned drones who back irresponsible trade globalization please explain to me how this is suppose to work for the American people? Is the game plan to make m9oney for shareholders, while making the American people broke? (closer to the China population every day)

Dig deep---our failing economy for the people is against your philosophies.

Better yet---just keep your ill concieved and conditioned thoughts to yourself. Your not going to do anything but piss me off---because, you are responsible for a 7.6% unemployment rate in MI right now.
 
Yep it will lower labor costs and raise profits.
And make us "more Competitive" in the world market.
For those with greedy myopic vision anyway.
 
Yep it will lower labor costs and raise profits.
And make us "more Competitive" in the world market.
For those with greedy myopic vision anyway.

Sure. And to add to that, it was said by big business--"if we help out the people in China, by giving them jobs, they will eventually become consumers of our products." The problem is, we make less and less product, and the Chinese government has no intention of paying their people a fair world wage. What does that mean? That means, in a nut shell, that we will become poor, as the different playing fields even out naturally. If China does not pay their people more---we will make less. It has to equal out someday, but China is not moving their people up--we are shoving ours down. There goes the home-and here comes the liberials to save us with expensive national health care that will add two spirals to the downward spiral we have now----almost over night.
 
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Sure. And to add to that, it was said by big business--"if we help out the people in China, by giving them jobs, they will eventually become consumers of our products." The problem is, we make less and less product, and the Chinese government has no intention of paying their people a fair world wage. What does that mean? That means, in a nut shell, that we will become poor, as the different playing fields even out naturally. If China does not pay their people more---we will make less. It has to equal out someday, but China is not moving their people up--we are shoving ours down. There goes the home-and here comes the liberials to save us with expensive national health care that will add two spirals to the downward spiral we have now----almost over night.

yep, the global economy guarantrees that our standard of living will drop and the others in worlrd will rise. it is inevitable. And spinner yes I do realize it is not a pure zero sum game , but it is closer to a zero sum game than you will admit to.
 
yep, the global economy guarantrees that our standard of living will drop and the others in worlrd will rise. it is inevitable. And spinner yes I do realize it is not a pure zero sum game , but it is closer to a zero sum game than you will admit to.


It is not just the majority of the people in this country that are suffering, and on a downward spiral. All highly established countries are having the same problem. Corporate greed is world wide. Canada, Europe and even Japan are suffering some of the same greedy woes. I have global customers who are the common man, all over the world. They are telling me that it is happening in their country also.

I am so pissed, that we are so stupid and irresponsible, that I actually hope the bottom drops out. We learn from our mistakes---I hope.
 
I am so pissed, that we are so stupid and irresponsible, that I actually hope the bottom drops out. We learn from our mistakes---I hope.
No, we don't. Our federal government has this bad habit of seizing and squandering the resources of those who HAVE exercised responsibility. It is inherently anti-entrepreneurial. The end result is a bigger bang, a louder pop.
 
Unemployment has been at hisitoric lows as far as length of time and stability, especially when you factor in we've done it without heavy inflation. Standards of living have increased across the board for all income classes in the U.S. Don't tell me that the rest of the country should be worse off so we can subsidize one state. Read about Creative Destruction and Comparative advantage.
 
Unemployment has been at hisitoric lows as far as length of time and stability, especially when you factor in we've done it without heavy inflation. Standards of living have increased across the board for all income classes in the U.S. Don't tell me that the rest of the country should be worse off so we can subsidize one state. Read about Creative Destruction and Comparative advantage.

About 4 years ago--our stat of MI., and the nation had a unemployment level of about 2%. Then--we really picked up the outsourcing. 5% is not high nation wide--but it is over double that of a few years ago.

I never mentioned subsities. I am against them for anything. You say our standards of living are increasing across the baord. So, please explain the rising unemployment nation wide, and the home forclosures that are at record high--and will continue as long as we globalize irresponsibly.

Let me guess. You are either on welfare (but most of those people don't have your opinion) or you are rich and got more so by ousting the American worker and have never lived from pay check to pay check like most over taxed Americans.

Which is it? Tell us what you do for money---becuase you can not possibly be in the majority tax brackets.

I am right on this profile--and yo8u won't answer because of it.

Wanna bet folks? Ten bucks says this guy has not lived from pay check to pay check for much, if any of his life. A welfare check is not a pay check--liberials confuse that. A welfare recipient lives from subsidized check to subsidez check--and workers live from pay check to pay check. If I do leave this country--I am taking MY money with me.

Sir---3 degrees here in manufacturing. I was a higher paid employee in a machine shop that does not do automotive (why I choose to work for them). I got a 25 cent raise in two years there, and my work and attendance is awesome. they can't afford to give nice raises anymore--and I was better off 5 years ago (before I started my own business)

How is that nice penthouse you have? Anybody lose a job over it? If so, I hope it lays heavly on your mind when you are on your death bed.
 
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You want a tariff to support jobs that is a subsidy at the expense of the consumer. Unemployment is still at historic lows especially if you take into consideration that they are not using inflation ala Phillips Curve to create jobs. Unemployment in MN is about 3.5%. Home foreclosures have nothing to do with outsourcing it has to do with historic low long term rates mixed with 1% short term rates and it caused an asset bubble which has happened innumerous times over the course of history. There is still a business cycle and were on the down turn of a cycle which has been made worse because of Fed Policy after 9-11.

I work at a bank and deal with short term notes for construction and land development projects.

You don’t understand Creative Destruction, Business Cycles and Comparative Advantage.
 
I am going to answer each mis guided sentence in your paragraph. Just so you see how I answered.

You want a tariff to support jobs that is a subsidy at the expense of the consumer. (no--I don't like tariffs unless the money is being directly distributed to the working person. I would rather not do business with a country thatr we can't compete with in the first place.) Unemployment is still at historic lows especially if you take into consideration that they are not using inflation ala Phillips Curve to create jobs. (unemployment is not at historic lows. It is higher now than it has been since 1992.--your information is a lie--or you are lieing for some reason.) Unemployment in MN is about 3.5%. Home foreclosures have nothing to do with outsourcing it has to do with historic low long term rates mixed with 1% short term rates and it caused an asset bubble which has happened innumerous times over the course of history. (lets ask the question why these homes are forclosed. The media would have you believe that it is because of only guys like you who gave out loans at a risky level--but that is not totally corect, or may be even half of the proble,. When people lose their jobs--they also lose their home--when they get paid the same amount that they made 5 years ago, and a great ARM goes up in prioce--they lose their homes. Outsourcing has a more direct effect on it that bad loans.) There is still a business cycle and were on the down turn of a cycle which has been made worse because of Fed Policy after 9-11. (you think it is going to get better in the next 5 years? Would you care to put any amount of money where your mouth is? Lets make a $1000.00 bet right now that it gets much worse. it may not turn around for the rest of our lifetimes. The cycle has been manipulated beyond recognition.


I work at a bank and deal with short term notes for construction and land development projects.

(Do you work for City bank? They just laid off a bunch of people (record high losses for city bank this week), and I am pretty sure some of those people won't be living in their homes for long.)


You don’t understand Creative Destruction, Business Cycles and Comparative Advantage.

Your right--I am not an economist. But I know that outsourcing is killing our prosperity as a people--you included. it is not going to get better man, and it seems like even guys like you, that have some understanding of economic factors simply don't understand that we can't keep doing this outsourcing and have a prosperious people. you sir--have to have prosperious people or you will not have anybody to lend money to. How long before you lose your home is the question. And yes, most of the blame is outsourcing our value added products.
 
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Dude, you don’t know what your talking about, free trade makes both parties better off, even if one country has an absolute advantage in every aspect. It’s Comparative Advantage and I’d love you to explain how it’s not true:

COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE
Paul Samuelson, one of the 20th century’s greatest economists, once remarked that the principle of comparative advantage was the only big idea that ECONOMICS had produced that was both true and surprising. It is also one of the oldest theories in economics, usually ascribed to DAVID RICARDO. The theory underpins the economic case for FREE TRADE. But it is often misunderstood or misrepresented by opponents of free trade. It shows how countries can gain from trading with each other even if one of them is more efficient – it has an ABSOLUTE ADVANTAGE – in every sort of economic activity. Comparative advantage is about identifying which activities a country (or firm or individual) is most efficient at doing.

To see how this theory works imagine two countries, Alpha and Omega. Each country has 1,000 workers and can make two goods, computers and cars. Alpha’s economy is far more productive than Omega’s. To make a car, Alpha needs two workers, compared with Omega’s four. To make a computer, Alpha uses 10 workers, compared with Omega’s 100. If there is no trade, and in each country half the workers are in each industry, Alpha produces 250 cars and 50 computers and Omega produces 125 cars and 5 computers.
What if the two countries specialise? Although Alpha makes both cars and computers more efficiently than Omega (it has an absolute advantage), it has a bigger edge in computer making. So it now devotes most of its resources to that industry, employing 700 workers to make computers and only 300 to make cars. This raises computer output to 70 and cuts car production to 150.

Omega switches entirely to cars, turning out 250.
World output of both goods has risen. Both countries can consume more of both if they trade, but at what PRICE? Neither will want to import what it could make more cheaply at home. So Alpha will want at least 5 cars per computer, and Omega will not give up more than 25 cars per computer. Suppose the terms of trade are fixed at 12 cars per computer and 120 cars are exchanged for 10 computers. Then Alpha ends up with 270 cars and 60 computers, and Omega with 130 cars and 10 computers. Both are better off than they would be if they did not trade.

This is true even though Alpha has an absolute advantage in making both computers and cars. The reason is that each country has a different comparative advantage. Alpha’s edge is greater in computers than in cars. Omega, although a costlier producer in both industries, is a less expensive maker of cars. If each country specialises in products in which it has a comparative advantage, both will gain from trade.
In essence, the theory of comparative advantage says that it pays countries to trade because they are different. It is impossible for a country to have no comparative advantage in anything. It may be the least efficient at everything, but it will still have a comparative advantage in the industry in which it is relatively least bad.

There is no reason to assume that a country’s comparative advantage will be static. If a country does what it has a comparative advantage in and sees its INCOME grow as a result, it can afford better education and INFRASTRUCTURE. These, in turn, may give it a comparative advantage in other economic activities in future.


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Unemployment is very low at 5% historically, plus I said the length of time our unemployment has been so low without the high inflation measure the fed use to take to artificially keep unemployment low. I already told you the House Bust has to do with a combination of historic low long term rates globally and 1% Fed Rates after 9-11 which cause asset bubbles to be much more extreme than would have been the case in the normal business cycle. Lending practices laxed due to this because banks had all this extra money to borrow without enough buyers so they took riskier bets they are now paying for. I don’t do personal home mortgages I do Business to bank short term loans for the actual builders and land developers, 2 different things. It’s a small {$100,000,000 line} specialty bank.

Yes things will get better in 5 years but I’d highly doubt you’ll pay up.
 
Do any of those writes mention the cost of doing business? I can buy a set of micrometers, shipped here from China for less money than the materal alone would cost here.

China has virtually no cost of doing business compared to all industrialized nations. We are entering a age in manufacturing that we have never--ever been faced with before.--Outsoursing, because the cost of doing business there--we can't compete with here.

if you think I am wrong, and we are not going feet first into a national recession---just put your money down. I will be happy to take it. In fact--I will probably need it. :)

I am not against free trade---but it has to be fair, or somebody will suffer---like we are now. it is just a matter of time IMO--and you will lose your job.
 
It is fair when both sides are better off just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean anything.

Also, I didn't say we wern't going into recession, it's just going to be short term maybe a year then we will bounce back like we always do.
 
It is fair when both sides are better off just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean anything.

Also, I didn't say we wern't going into recession, it's just going to be short term maybe a year then we will bounce back like we always do.

Ya did it. You committed yourself with a time frame of economic up turn for our people. You state 1 year. I will give you 5. I am nothing but a enginer/machinist--but I will bet you $1000.00 that the national unemployment will not go down .2% anytime in the next five years. Now, lets not confuse employement of 8 dollar jobs, to employyment of 20 dollar jobs. I know people that have 3 low paying jobs to make ends meat--but that is only one employee (but numbers do not reflect that, or the fact that your off the unemployment list when benifits run out). Still--with that on your side---it is a bet?

When our unemployment stays the same right now, it is probably because we are getting more poor paying jobs at the same rate that good paying jobs are leaving.

How about we taslk about the gross national earnings?--and I think you will see our decline.

Is it a bet sir? I bet that unemployment wil go up, and up for years. Why--Because we made big mistakes a decade ago, and one year is not going to fix it. we have not tried to fix it, so it will get worse.

Wanna bet--how sure are you of yourself? I am $1000.00 sure.
 
It is fair when both sides are better off just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean anything.

.

Both sides are not better off. Your a lier, and I see the people in trouble to prove it. I know for a fact that you are not handing out loans like you did 3 years ago. Who are you trying to BS?

1 year? No way. we can't see bottom yet, and I doubt we are half way there.
 
I'm not betting the unemployment rate, we could have 2% unemployment with 15% inflation and that would be bad. I'll bet that GDP keeps increasing, unemployment stays low in historic terms and living standards will continue to increase across the board. Even the lowest income brackets increased faster than the rate of inflation last year.
 
Tell me how Comparative Advantage does not make both sides better off and I may take you seriously. You make emotional arguments not economic ones.
 
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