A brief history of Hell

[Dutch Uncle]

Hell may well be a physical place and it may well be quite full of torture but that torture will be the creation of the people who end up there. The devil doesn't torture people in hell he doesn't care that much. He just needs people to be slaves to their own desires so they end up in hell where they suffer the pains of their freely chosen actions. That's the funniest part he's a torturer that doesn't do many torturing.

Again hell might be real but the tortures are real. This all touches on another whacky protestant belief that isn't biblical, sola fide.

It doesn't make sense since 1) God made us flawed and 2) an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-merciful God wouldn't do that.

All that makes sense would be that Hell is a choice; the choice to live in the darkness or to live in the light of goodness, of Godliness. Isn't that the entire purpose of Free Will? To have choices? To live, grow and change one's mind?

Consider drug addicts? Whose fault is that? God's or the addicts? Who is torturing them? God or they themselves? Whose choice is it for them to remain addicts? God or they themselves?

Hell might be real and Hell might involve torture but I strongly doubt God is the one responsible for anyone being there.

 

[Cypress]

Despite the complaints about the "evilness of religion" coming from some quarters, you are proving that people use religion, that religion doesn't use them.

For sure, religion can be exploited the same way atheism was exploited by Stalin, nationalism was exploited by Mussolini, and capitalism was exploited by the Robber Barons.

 

[Cypress]

Weren't Luther and Calvin guilty of misinterpreting writings from the Bible...at least according to the Catholics?

You and I both know that the books of the Bible were carefully selected out of hundreds to send a specific message from the neophyte Catholic church. In some ways the message was specific, in some ways it was left up to interpretation. I remember the lapsed-Catholic comedian George Carlin's comment about asking pointed questions of priest teachers only to get "well, it's a mystery" as a reply. LOL

By no means am I an expert, but in general sola scriptura, sola fide, and stuff like strict biblical literalism and the raptured are generally considered nonsense by the Eastern Churches and Roman Catholicism.

There's bound to be inconsistencies in any world religion that has a long tradition of canonical and extra-canonical writings. That includes virtually all the major world religions. I tend to be interested in seeing past the inconsistencies and trivia to try to grasp the core essence.

 

[Yakuda]

It doesn't make sense since 1) God made us flawed and 2) an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-merciful God wouldn't do that.

All that makes sense would be that Hell is a choice; the choice to live in the darkness or to live in the light of goodness, of Godliness. Isn't that the entire purpose of Free Will? To have choices? To live, grow and change one's mind?

Consider drug addicts? Whose fault is that? God's or the addicts? Who is torturing them? God or they themselves? Whose choice is it for them to remain addicts? God or they themselves?

Hell might be real and Hell might involve torture but I strongly doubt God is the one responsible for anyone being there.

I agree. I have repeatedly said and the Catholic Church teaches that people make themselves worthy of hell. God isn't responsible for that.

 

[Yakuda]

By no means am I an expert, but in general sola scriptura, sola fide, and stuff like strict biblical literalism and the raptured are generally considered nonsense by the Eastern Churches and Roman Catholicism.

There's bound to be inconsistencies in any world religion that has a long tradition of canonical and extra-canonical writings. That includes virtually all the major world religions. I tend to be interested in seeing past the inconsistencies and trivia to try to grasp the core essence.

What inconsistencies are you referring to? I think "inconsistencies" are most often the result of poor understanding and arent inherent in thr religion.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

For sure, religion can be exploited the same way atheism was exploited by Stalin, nationalism was exploited by Mussolini, and capitalism was exploited by the Robber Barons.

Agreed. The problem isn't things, but people. Things, be they material, books or ideas, are inert and nothing without people to manipulate them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

By no means am I an expert, but in general sola scriptura, sola fide, and stuff like strict biblical literalism and the raptured are generally considered nonsense by the Eastern Churches and Roman Catholicism.

There's bound to be inconsistencies in any world religion that has a long tradition of canonical and extra-canonical writings. That includes virtually all the major world religions. I tend to be interested in seeing past the inconsistencies and trivia to try to grasp the core essence.

To be perfectly honest here, most ancient religions are filled with nonsense as viewed by a modern, educated mind. While there is timeless human truisms in them, the views of the world and Universe by ancient minds is often flawed.

 

[Cypress]

What inconsistencies are you referring to?

The biggest one off the top of my head is Luther and Calvin's reading of Paul that salvation is through faith alone, and works play no part in it. The RC and Eastern churches generally believe that is nonsense

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I agree. I have repeatedly said and the Catholic Church teaches that people make themselves worthy of hell. God isn't responsible for that.

I'm not a Catholic and was raised a moderate Protestant....meaning Hell was mentioned but no Hellfire and Brimstone lectures from the pulpit.

Since people put themselves into Hell, as you and I have agreed, do we also agree that people can also extricate themselves from Hell?

 

[Cypress]

To be perfectly honest here, most ancient religions are filled with nonsense as viewed by a modern, educated mind. While there is timeless human truisms in them, the views of the world and Universe by ancient minds is often flawed.

Agreed.

But if you took away the resurrection, the miracles, the virgin birth, the life and ministry of Jesus in the gospels have the ring of authenticity in them, particularly the parables, the sermons, the trial and execution.

I personally don't see anything particularly wrong with myth and ritual, if they are part of a grander purpose. I don't think we would be fully human without myth and ritual.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Agreed.

But if you took away the resurrection, the miracles, the virgin birth, the life and ministry of Jesus in the gospels have the ring of authenticity in them, particularly the parables, the sermons, the trial and execution.

I personally don't see anything particularly wrong with myth and ritual, if they are part of a grander purpose. I don't think we would be fully human with myth and ritual.

Agreed which is the part of the Gospels I like the most. Good wisdom there.

As long as it's understood to be myth and ritual, me neither. When people assert myth as fact and then seek to enforce their beliefs with force, including the rule of law, then I object.

 

[Cypress]

Hell may well be a physical place and it may well be quite full of torture but that torture will be the creation of the people who end up there. The devil doesn't torture people in hell he doesnt care that much. He just needs people to be slaves to their own desires so they end up in hell where they suffer the pains of their freely chosen actions. That's the funniest part he's a torturer that doesn't do many torturing.

Again hell might be real but the tortures are real. This all touches on another whacky protestant belief that isn't biblical, sola fide.

A hell that is a physical place of diabolical tortures, where Jews, Hindus, Buddhists are destined for damnation, strikes me as a medieval view of hell, and one that is only widely held in the 21st century by Southern evangelical Protestants and fire and brimstone fundamentalists.

 

[Yakuda]

The biggest one off the top of my head is Luther and Calvin's reading of Paul that salvation is through faith alone, and works play no part in it. The RC and Eastern churches generally believe that is nonsense

That's not an inconsistency. For 1500 years there was no "inconsistency" concerning that matter.

 

[Yakuda]

I'm not a Catholic and was raised a moderate Protestant....meaning Hell was mentioned but no Hellfire and Brimstone lectures from the pulpit.

Since people put themselves into Hell, as you and I have agreed, do we also agree that people can also extricate themselves from Hell?

They can avoid hell not extricate themselves from it. Scripture I think is fairly clear on that.

 

[Yakuda]

A hell that is a physical place of diabolical tortures, where Jews, Hindus, Buddhists are destined for damnation, strikes me as a medieval view of hell, and one that is only widely held in the 21st century by Southern evangelical Protestants and fire and brimstone fundamentalists.

AGAIN it's very simple, hell is complete separation from God. However people express it that's what it is. I already gave you an analogy to try and explain it.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

They can avoid hell not extricate themselves from it. Scripture I think is fairly clear on that.

So you believe God isn't all merciful. Got it. Thanks.

If you go that way, then God is either a cruel bastard or God isn't all knowing. God created Lucifer knowing what Lucifer would do. God creates people knowing what they would do. What's the point except to torture like a sick kid pulling the wings off flies for fun?

 

[Cypress]

That's not an inconsistency. For 1500 years there was no "inconsistency" concerning that matter.

I believe DU asked me what inconsistency the Catholics thought of the Protestants.

There is a plethora of inconsistencies in the NT. Luke says Jesus was born Nazareth. Matthew says he was born in Bethlehem. The trial of Jesus is portrayed differently in Mark compared to John. In Mark, Jesus is very cagey about who he really is and even his disciples are confused about who he really is, in John Jesus openly admits to being coequal and coeternal with God.

I don't think the inconsistencies are a big deal, those books were written four decades after Jesus' execution, and they cannot be expected to be accurate histories written in real time

 

[Yakuda]

So you believe God isn't all merciful. Got it. Thanks.

If you go that way, then God is either a cruel bastard or God isn't all knowing. God created Lucifer knowing what Lucifer would do. God creates people knowing what they would do. What's the point except to torture like a sick kid pulling the wings off flies for fun?

Yes he is but that's doesnt mean you whatever the fuck you want. Choice have consequences shit stain.

 

[Yakuda]

I believe DU asked me what inconsistency the Catholics thought of the Protestants.

There is a plethora of inconsistencies in the NT. Luke says Jesus was born Nazareth. Matthew says he was born in Bethlehem. The trial of Jesus is portrayed differently in Mark compared to John. In Mark, Jesus is very cagey about who he really is and even his disciples are confused about who he really is, in John Jesus openly admits to being coequal and coeternal with God.

I don't think the inconsistencies are a big deal, those books were written four decades after Jesus' execution, and they cannot be expected to be accurate histories written in real time

Yes those are inconsistencies. Sola scriptura and sola fide however are perversions of scripture. I agree the inconsistencies are not a major obstacle.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes he is but that's doesnt mean you whatever the fuck you want. Choice have consequences shit stain.

Of course not. Why would you assume it does, Yak? Why so quick to anger? Are you in fear of facing your own consequences?

True repentance is the path to redemption. Your behavior indicates you haven't repented and still not only blame others for your actions but hate them too. Sad.