A brief history of Hell

Phantasmal said:
It is against the Geneva Convention, international law, to target citizens.

Hamas is a terrorist organization and they have no regards for any laws. Israel may retaliate to the level they were attacked, if they continue in total destruct of Gaza and the killing of civilians, they may expand the war, or they may lose the sympathy of the international community and sanctions.
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So you and I are agreed that there's no moral or universal law at work, just social convention? Like abortion? Execution of prisoners? Locking up prisoners? Stress positions and solitary confinement are legal but water boarding is not?


So, the Israelis are legal but fighting two fronts; Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran on one front and global antisemitism on the other front. Sad.

Notice no one is talking about sanctions against Iran or Qatar.

https://news.yahoo.com/head-hamas-snake-billionaire-living-144750757.html
The ‘head’ of the Hamas ‘snake’ is a billionaire living in Qatar

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/qatar-hamas-israel-1.6999416
How tiny Qatar hosts the leaders of Hamas without consequences
they are not the only guests of Qatar.

Just a few minutes drive away from the hotels and villas housing Hamas leaders is Al-Udaid Air Base, home to the U.S. military's Central Command. Washington's relationship with Qatar is so close that last year the White House officially designated the tiny emirate a "Major Non-NATO Ally" of the United States.

For a small country with fewer than half a million citizens, Qatar manages to squeeze in a lot of contradictions.
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While ordinary Palestinians suffer and die in Gaza, Hamas leaders live in comfort 2,000 km away
 
Damocles said:
Hell is described by Jesus in the "Lazarus and the Rich man" parable in Luke 16. The Rich man looks up from Hell and asks to have Lazarus come down with a finger dipped in water to give him a drop of water to ease his thirst because the fire was hot....
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A lot of religions imagine a hell or place where the wicked are punished. Buddhism and Hinduism have their own concepts of hell.

The fact that hell is rarely mentioned, and then only obliquely in the NT is a contrast with the focus and emphasis on hell in the fire and brimstone Fundy churches.
 
Cypress said:
A lot of religions imagine a hell or place where the wicked are punished. Buddhism and Hinduism have their own concepts of hell.

The fact that hell is rarely mentioned, and then only obliquely in the NT is a contrast with the focus and emphasis on hell in the fire and brimstone Fundy churches.
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How many times does hell need to be mentioned? You sound like those idiot Protestants who claim something can't be true because its not mentioned often enough in the bible. It's hilariously illogical considering they believe shit thats never mentioned in the bible.
 
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Yakuda said:
How many times does hell need to be mentioned? You sound like those idiot Protestants who claim something can't be true because its not mentioned often enough in the bible.

It's hilariously illogical considering they believe shit thats never mentioned in the bible .
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That's a heavily Protestant bias to insinuate that it has to be mentioned in the bible to have any religious or spiritual truth.

Protestants are only minority in world Christianity, and only Protestants believe in Sola scriptura - by scripture alone. In the other major world Christian traditions, the bible is not the only religious authority. As far as I know, our conventional and popularized conceptions of Hell come from the writings of Saint Augustine and the Medieval Catholic church. Not from Jesus or Paul.
 
Cypress said:
That's a heavily Protestant bias to insinuate that it has to be mentioned in the bible to have any religious or spiritual truth.

Protestants are only minority in world Christianity, and only Protestants believe in Sola scriptura - by scripture alone. In the other major world Christian traditions, the bible is not the only religious authority. As far as I know, our conventional and popularized conceptions of Hell come from the writings of Saint Augustine and the Medieval Catholic church. Not from Jesus or Paul.
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They do believe in sola scriptura and sola scriptura is found no where in the Bible. Hell however is referenced in the bible regardless of how rare of oblique you find them.
 
Phantasmal said:
I think you have it backwards, Secularist don’t believe in sin, it’s the religious that try to equate all negative actions based on their religion to sin.
I’ve never had a psychologist tell me I have sinned, so I’m really confused about your comments.
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You have to have morals for sin to matter. Secularists have no morals but laws.
 
Yakuda said:
They do believe in sola scriptura and sola scriptura is found no where in the Bible. Hell however is referenced in the bible regardless of how rare of oblique you find them.
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It doesn't sound like you know what the theology of Sola scriptura means.

The detailed and elaborate concept of hell you have in your mind comes from extra-canonical Christian writings by Church fathers, and authors like Dante in late antiquity and the middle ages. . You just retroactively took those concepts and mentally conflated them with the bible, which actually only has a few vague and nebulous references to damnation in the afterlife.
 
Cypress said:
It doesn't sound like you know what the theology of Sola scriptura means.

The detailed and elaborate concept of hell you have in your mind comes from extra-canonical Christian writings by Church fathers, and authors like Dante in late antiquity and the middle ages. . You just retroactively took those concepts and mentally conflated them with the bible, which actually only has a few vague and nebulous references to damnation in the afterlife.
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I know exactly what it means.

What is my concept of hell? Where did I outline it to you? I'll give you a hint, my concept of hell is three words long. Sometimes four words when I'm feeling especially terse at the ignorance on this matter.
 
Yakuda said:
I know exactly what it means.

What is my concept of hell? Where did I outline it to you? I'll give you a hint, my concept of hell is three words long. Sometimes four words when I'm feeling especially terse at the ignorance on this matter.
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The fact is, a significant amount what we think we know about Christianity, and the assumptions that our knowledge must come from the New Testament, is actually knowledge that comes to us from the Christian apocryphal writings. The narrative accounts of hell and the punishments that await, the martyring of Paul in Rome, the crucifixion of Peter upside down come to us from the apocrypha, even though most people think these stories must be in the New Testament.
 
Cypress said:
The fact is, a significant amount what we think we know about Christianity, and the assumptions that our knowledge must come from the New Testament, is actually knowledge that comes to us from the Christian apocryphal writings. The narrative accounts of hell and the punishments that await, the martyring of Paul in Rome, the crucifixion of Peter upside down come to us from the apocrypha, even though most people think these stories must be in the New Testament.
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Wonderful. The problem is that the only things that matter about Christianity are in the bible. Paul and Peter being martyred is irrelevant. No Christian is required to believe either of them was martyred. Supposed bible believing protestants believe things that aren't in the Bible but think they are necessary to believe to be a Christian. They also deny things that are actually in the Bible.

As to hell it's rather simple. AGAIN hell is complete separation from God. The narratives of hell are merely ways of analogously representing the pains of that separation from God. Imagine if there was someone you love more deeply than anything else in the whole world and then imagine you were never going to see or hear from that person ever again, that might be a kind of hell with your own personal sufferings and tortures. Its as if people can't get past a 3rd grade level of understanding.
 
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Yakuda said:
Wonderful. The problem is that the only things that matter about Christianity are in the bible. Paul and Peter being martyred is irrelevant. No Christian is required to believe either of them was martyred. Supposed bible believing protestants believe things that aren't in the Bible but think they are necessary to believe to be a Christian. They also deny things that are actually in the Bible.

As to hell it's rather simple. AGAIN hell is complete separation from God. The narratives of hell are merely ways of analogously representing the pains of that separation from God. Imagine if there was someone you love more deeply than anything else in the whole world and then imagine you were never going to see or hear from that person ever again, that might be a kind of hell with your own personal sufferings and tortures. Its as if people can't get past a 3rd grade level of understanding.
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That's the teaching of my church too, that Hell is not a physical place filled with fire and torture chambers.
Heaven and Hell are metaphysical relationships to God.


However, most MAGA Christian fundamentalists have howled for decades that Hell is a real place of diabolical tortures I am destined for if I don't adopt their conservative, fundamentalist religious worldview.
 
Cypress said:
That's the teaching of my church too, that Hell is not a physical place filled with fire and torture chambers.
Heaven and Hell are metaphysical relationships to God.


However, most MAGA Christian fundamentalists have howled for decades that Hell is a real place of diabolical tortures I am destined for if I don't adopt their conservative, fundamentalist religious worldview.
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Ironically spelling their own doom as they violate the edict "Judge not, lest ye be judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7)
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Ironically spelling their own doom as they violate the edict "Judge not, lest ye be judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7)
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Hellbound!

Most rightwing fundys violate the ethical teachings of Jesus almost every time they type on a keyboard.
 
Cypress said:
Hellbound!

Most rightwing fundys violate the ethical teachings of Jesus almost every time they type on a keyboard.
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Yep. Apparently as they cherry-pick their Bible, they have disregarded the part where Jesus adds "... go, and sin no more." In other words, don't keep doing the same thing and then asking for forgiveness.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Yep. Apparently as they cherry-pick their Bible, they have disregarded the part where Jesus adds "... go, and sin no more." In other words, don't keep doing the same thing and then asking for forgiveness.
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Luther and Calvin have been misinterpreted by fundy Protestants who don't even understand their own religion, in the assumption that you are most likely to be saved if you just have faith in Jesus. Emulating Jesus life is not what gets them into heaven or demostrate the condition of their soul.
 
Cypress said:
Hellbound!

Most rightwing fundys violate the ethical teachings of Jesus almost every time they type on a keyboard.
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Despite the complaints about the "evilness of religion" coming from some quarters, you are proving that people use religion, that religion doesn't use them. :)
 
Cypress said:
Luther and Calvin have been misinterpreted by fundy Protestants who don't even understand their own religion, in the assumption that you are most likely to be saved if you just have faith in Jesus. Emulating Jesus life is not what gets them into heaven or demostrate the condition of their soul.
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Weren't Luther and Calvin guilty of misinterpreting writings from the Bible...at least according to the Catholics? :)

You and I both know that the books of the Bible were carefully selected out of hundreds to send a specific message from the neophyte Catholic church. In some ways the message was specific, in some ways it was left up to interpretation. I remember the lapsed-Catholic comedian George Carlin's comment about asking pointed questions of priest teachers only to get "well, it's a mystery" as a reply. LOL
 
Cypress said:
That's the teaching of my church too, that Hell is not a physical place filled with fire and torture chambers.
Heaven and Hell are metaphysical relationships to God.


However, most MAGA Christian fundamentalists have howled for decades that Hell is a real place of diabolical tortures I am destined for if I don't adopt their conservative, fundamentalist religious worldview.
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Hell may well be a physical place and it may well be quite full of torture but that torture will be the creation of the people who end up there. The devil doesn't torture people in hell he doesnt care that much. He just needs people to be slaves to their own desires so they end up in hell where they suffer the pains of their freely chosen actions. That's the funniest part he's a torturer that doesn't do many torturing.

Again hell might be real but the tortures are real. This all touches on another whacky protestant belief that isn't biblical, sola fide.
 
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