A Guide to Finding Faith

[Into the Night]

I never claimed it did.

Yes you did.

 

[Into the Night]

I.T.N. loves arguing about things nobody says.

Anyone that wants to can go back and look for themselves, dumbass.

 

[Into the Night]

There is mystery to the universe and I posted a site that listed those mysteries. If you’re offended, don’t read them.

No, you posted a Holy Link. You have no mind of your own. You have to use the arguments of others.

 

[Into the Night]

I usually scroll by his blather, but decided to engage, now I remember why I scroll by.

Bulverism fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

I believe in lots of things which cannot be experimentally tested with mass spectrometers, mathematically modelled, or statistically validated.

There is no problem with that. Faith is not a fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Acceleration does not distort or warp spacetime.

Mass does.

But that is not even what I was referring to.

Go read Einstein again. It IS what you are referring to.

 

[AProudLefty]

No. A theory of science by itself has no power of prediction. It only explains. It must be transcribed into a closed functional system such as mathematics to gain the power of prediction. The resulting equation is called a 'law'.

False. A theory has predicative power. A theory contain a functional system.

A theory is not a proof. Age is not a proof.

Proof is for mathematics.

 

[AProudLefty]

Yes there is. I've already stated what it is.

You stating it is not a proof that there is a Theory of Abiogenesis. There is no Theory of Abiogenesis.

A theory is not a proof. I never claimed it was. Pay attention.

Correct. It is not a proof.

It is both.

False. A theory is not a belief.

But a theory can be.

False. A theory is not a belief.

Already described why. Pay attention. RQAA.

Good. So we can dismiss religions as irrelevant.

Yes. There is. It believes in the initial circular argument that there is no god or gods.

False. There is no Church of No God.

You do not need to reproduce a theory. It already exists.

You can replicate an experiment over and over again.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

While the Earth certainly had a beginning, and it will have an end, why should the Universe? It is quite possible the Universe has always existed and always will.

That goes against all scientific evidence.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Gravity visualized. Good gravy!

Awesome sauce!

 

[NiftyNiblick]

That goes against all scientific evidence.

The scientific "evidence" to which you refer tries to pretend that time is irrelevant.

No matter what is theorized to have been the "beginning,"
something had to come before.
Disregarding the time concept is absurd on its face.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I believe in lots of things which cannot be experimentally tested with mass spectrometers, mathematically modelled, or statistically validated.

When it comes to the human interpretation, I tend to agree. However, psychological research of the brain is attempting to understand things like love, belief, spirituality, etc.

One problem I see is the analogy of a primitive tribe breaking open a radio to find the magic voices inside. Similar to the story of "the Golden Goose", there are more things in play than simple material results.

Human perception and human creativity are not easily quantified.
how
Is it 6 or 9? 3 legs or 4? Old woman or young? Faces or a vase? Can we scientifically predict what people will interpret what they perceive?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The scientific "evidence" to which you refer tries to pretend that time is irrelevant.

No matter what is theorized to have been the "beginning,"
something had to come before.
Disregarding the time concept is absurd on its face.

What fucking idiot claims time is irrelevant, neef?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

What fucking idiot claims time is irrelevant, neef?

Every single person who believes in a "beginning."
The concept of time precludes any all-comprehensive beginnings or endings.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Every single person who believes in a "beginning."
The concept of time precludes any all-comprehensive beginnings or endings.

Say what? WTF are you babbling about? Space-Time began with the Big Bang. While Space-Time will still exist 22+ billion years from now if the Universe dies in "the Big Chill", there won't be anyone or anything left to perceive it.

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

"Sound" is a perception. My grandkids think I play music so loud it hurts their ears and I have to turn it down when we play Mario Kart. Yes, the falling tree pushes air out of the way and creates vibrations in the air even if no one can hear it.

If a tree fell on the Moon where there is no air, there is no "sound" until it hits the ground and produces a vibration which can be perceived with sensors or by people.

OTOH, one might ask "WTF is a tree doing on the Moon?"

 

[Cypress]

You ignored my comment to talk about your cat.

You said belief is the worst thing to hang truth on.

Good to know you have backpedalled away from that statement and no longer openly deny that intuition and belief play a legitimate role in how humans interpret life experience

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Space-Time exists whether or not anybody is around to perceive it.
If material itself ceases to exist, the universe will be comprised of the void, but as such will continue to exist.

Given the magnitude of my role it in it, this from the perspective of infinity, I'd rather lend my thoughts to more immediate pursuits.

Even still, though, beginnings and endings to the universe are not anything that human minds have adequately explained to this point.

Nobody has explained boundaries to infinity, because there's always something on the outside of every boundary.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You said belief is the worst thing to hang truth on.

Good to know you have backpedalled away from that statement and no longer openly deny that intuition and belief play a legitimate role in how humans interpret life experience

I accept that human perceptions and processing of those perceptions play a key role in how we interpret our life experience.

 

[Cypress]

I accept that human perceptions and processing of those perceptions play a key role in how we interpret our life experience.

For sure. I also believe humans have an inherent sense of justice, egalitarianism, empathy which cannot be measured in particle accelerators.

And even if justice could be scientifically measured and quantified under laboratory conditions, we would not need a scientific report to tell us it is something palpable that our minds can intuit and believe in

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Space-Time exists whether or not anybody is around to perceive it.
If material itself ceases to exist, the universe will be comprised of the void, but as such will continue to exist.

Given the magnitude of my role it in it, this from the perspective of infinity, I'd rather lend my thoughts to more immediate pursuits.

Even still, though, beginnings and endings to the universe are not anything that human minds have adequately explained to this point.

Nobody has explained boundaries to infinity, because there's always something on the outside of every boundary.

Correct.

You are free to stare at your navel (omphaloskepsis) as if it were the entire Universe. While I do believe that such a pursuit has legitimate purposes, I do not believe that it takes precedence over looking up and looking around at the world and universe around us.

Better, IMO, to do both and assess what we can.