A Horrible Story

SM, lets look at what has happened in this thread.

1) Someone posted an article about the extremely high rates of suicides in the military.

2) In addition to insults, you post some nonsense about the problem being that parents "coddle" their kids and then told us what your parents would have told you (if you had joined the military, that is).

3) Two people point out that the problem predates the idea of coddling kids and showed your post to be nonsense. (as if that were a surprise)

4) You try to dodge being shown a fool on the topic by claiming your parents didn't have kids in WWII.



No one made the claim that your parents raised kids that fought in WWII. The posts were showing that parents coddling kids is not the problem.

So your comment was shown to be made in ignorance. Now deal with it.
 
I believe the most likely underlying reason for the suicides, is that they took the life of other human and they know it is wrong.
 
Bfgrn said:
“In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.”
Jose Narosky

More troops lost to suicide

For the second year in a row, the U.S. military has lost more troops to suicide than it has to combat in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Lets see Obama has been in office for two years, so I am blaming him for all of it.
 
Bfgrn said:
I believe the most likely underlying reason for the suicides, is that they took the life of other human and they know it is wrong.
Click to expand...

That has always been part of the problem. And as we remove the "they aren't human" levels of bullshit propaganda pushed to make the enemy look bad, our soldiers have to deal with more and more guilt.

But that isn't the only thing. In addition to guilt, the stress levels in a combat zone are off the charts. Keeping the human body in a constant state of "Fight or Flight" can be deadly.

I think there are numerous reasons for the suicides. But almost none are being dealt with.
 
Bfgrn said:
I believe the most likely underlying reason for the suicides, is that they took the life of other human and they know it is wrong.
Click to expand...
How many of those who committed suicide actually fired a gun at the enemy and killed him? Meh, a more reasonable explanation is that the kids were coddled by parents and a feminized society.
 
Damn Yankee said:
How many of those who committed suicide actually fired a gun at the enemy and killed him? Meh, a more reasonable explanation is that the kids were coddled by parents and a feminized society.
Click to expand...

More reasonable to whom? Someone who never served and has repeatedly condemned the overwhelming majority of psychologists and psychiatrists?



Have you any evidence that the coddling has something to do with it? Since WWII vets are still screwed up by their time in a warzone, it doesn't make sense that "coddling" is much of an issue. Unless you claim that parents in the 1920s and 30s also "coddled" their kids? There were a huge number of vets from the Korean War and the Vietnam War who committed suicide or had serious issues dealing with the time they served. Did the parents in the 1940s and 50s coddle their kids too?
 
This is not a new phenomenon:

http://www.baycitizen.org/veterans/story/suicide-rates-soar-among-wwii-vets/


From: http://ptsdcombat.blogspot.com/2006/04/ptsd-statistics-wwii-to-iraq.html

"Experts maintain the mental state as it relates to armed conflict likely began when the first human picked up the first stick or stone. Only the name has changed. During the Civil War, soldiers who lost their will or capacity to fight were afflicted with nostalgia, later diagnosed as soldier's heart. The affliction for a time also carried the name Swiss disease, a tribute to soldiers from that country forced into military units.

Society later introduced the concept of railway spine, which evolved from numerous and horrific railroad accidents. The diagnosis was popularized in lawsuits in the 1870s. As the theory evolved, doctors reached a general view that intense fear disturbed a person's nervous system. By the end of the 19th century, traumatic hysteria and traumatic neurasthenia were the accepted terms.

Then came World War I. The global cataclysm advanced the idea of subconscious mental processes, a theory gaining acceptance. During that war, physicians described soldiers as shell shocked. They assigned the diagnosis to those with neurological symptoms but no physical injuries. The term came from the idea exploding shells changed atmospheric pressure near soldiers, harming their nervous systems. Researchers later determined relatively few cases involved exploding ordnance, which only added to the mystery.

World War II provided the concept of combat fatigue. Statistics show one in four casualties in World War II resulted from the mental disorder. In Europe, the U.S. military recorded one combat stress casualty for every three soldiers wounded in action, according to Field Manual FM 6-22.5, which is used and distributed by the U.S. Marine Corps."

(So much for coddling being a root cause)
 
WinterBorn said:
This is not a new phenomenon:

http://www.baycitizen.org/veterans/story/suicide-rates-soar-among-wwii-vets/


From: http://ptsdcombat.blogspot.com/2006/04/ptsd-statistics-wwii-to-iraq.html

"Experts maintain the mental state as it relates to armed conflict likely began when the first human picked up the first stick or stone. Only the name has changed. During the Civil War, soldiers who lost their will or capacity to fight were afflicted with nostalgia, later diagnosed as soldier's heart. The affliction for a time also carried the name Swiss disease, a tribute to soldiers from that country forced into military units.

Society later introduced the concept of railway spine, which evolved from numerous and horrific railroad accidents. The diagnosis was popularized in lawsuits in the 1870s. As the theory evolved, doctors reached a general view that intense fear disturbed a person's nervous system. By the end of the 19th century, traumatic hysteria and traumatic neurasthenia were the accepted terms.

Then came World War I. The global cataclysm advanced the idea of subconscious mental processes, a theory gaining acceptance. During that war, physicians described soldiers as shell shocked. They assigned the diagnosis to those with neurological symptoms but no physical injuries. The term came from the idea exploding shells changed atmospheric pressure near soldiers, harming their nervous systems. Researchers later determined relatively few cases involved exploding ordnance, which only added to the mystery.

World War II provided the concept of combat fatigue. Statistics show one in four casualties in World War II resulted from the mental disorder. In Europe, the U.S. military recorded one combat stress casualty for every three soldiers wounded in action, according to Field Manual FM 6-22.5, which is used and distributed by the U.S. Marine Corps."

(So much for coddling being a root cause)
Click to expand...

If you get an opportunity, watch the HBO documentary Wartorn. It talks about the all of that. Here is a synopsis:

Wartorn 1861-2010: Synopsis
 
Now SM, would you like to present any evidence to backup your "coddling" theory?
 
Bfgrn said:
“In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.”
Jose Narosky

More troops lost to suicide

For the second year in a row, the U.S. military has lost more troops to suicide than it has to combat in Iraq and Afghanistan.

soldiers.jpg


The reasons are complicated and the accounting uncertain — for instance, should returning soldiers who take their own lives after being mustered out be included?

But the suicide rate is a further indication of the stress that military personnel live under after nearly a decade of war.

http://www.congress.org/news/2011/01/24/more_troops_lost_to_suicide

HBO produced a powerful documentary that was shown on Veteran's Day. I suggest everyone see it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5m1tvj1OVE
Click to expand...

Hopefully young people watched it or will watch it and think twice before joining the military.
 
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