A Lesson on Socialism

Good Luck said:
Dead wrong.

First, while Christ indeed was against greed and any focus on money which would detract from one's spirituality, his message was also about PERSONAL responsibility of one towards one's neighbors. Socialism places that burden of social welfare on the state instead of the individual. Its principles are as anti-Christian as is greed.

Second, open capitalism, for all its faults, does not directly advocate greed. It is the social concept of entitlement (which is not a conservative principle) that advocates greed. Open capitalism simply allows one free choice about how they handle their money - to be greedy with it, OR to be generous with it. The choice is their to follow Christ and use their money in that manner, or not. Socialism takes that choice away. Without choice, one cannot CHOOSE to follow Christ's command to help the needy. If one does not CHOOSE the way of Christ, then it is NOT being Christian regardless of the theoretical (but never real) benefits of socialism.
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Anyone who says they are a christian ..... ain't!
 
SmarterThanYou said:
socialism works when it's voluntarily practiced by members of the community as a whole. When it's implemented without approval and forced upon us by the state, they call that communism.
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So since Socialism is not Communism, socialism works.... or have I got you wrong? Incidentally, you talk of communism. Care to give an example of a communist government?
 
Damocles said:
IMO, Government is a necessary evil, one that should be applied in the least amount possible.
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Not. government is just an instrument of control and coercion, based on brutality and brainwashing. Nobody needs it, except those fearful of chaos.

Let go of your fear.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Not. government is just an instrument of control and coercion, based on brutality and brainwashing. Nobody needs it, except those fearful of chaos.

Let go of your fear.
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Don't need it? Then get rid of it. You live in a free country, don't you? You have guns, don't you? Get rid of your government. Plant cabbages on the Whitehouse lawn, empty the government offices and fill them with the homeless.
If you can make it work then do it.
If you don't think it's possible STFU!
 
Lowaicue said:
Don't need it? Then get rid of it. You live in a free country, don't you? You have guns, don't you? Get rid of your government. Plant cabbages on the Whitehouse lawn, empty the government offices and fill them with the homeless.
If you can make it work then do it.
If you don't think it's possible STFU!
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What's your problem, jackass?

Are you upset at my statements because you know the U.S. government has become a tool to subjugate the american people and little more, and you hate americans? Is that it? I bet it is.
 
AssHatZombie said:
What's your problem, jackass?

Are you upset at my statements because you know the U.S. government has become a tool to subjugate the american people and little more, and you hate americans? Is that it? I bet it is.
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You do know he is a foreigner, right?
 
AssHatZombie said:
Not. government is just an instrument of control and coercion, based on brutality and brainwashing. Nobody needs it, except those fearful of chaos.

Let go of your fear.
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Silliness, the feudal system that would develop in the wake of the loss of all government would not be "better" for anybody but those with the most guns. It would ensure that there would be no line drawn between strength and "right"...
 
Damocles said:
Silliness, the feudal system that would develop in the wake of the loss of all government would not be "better" for anybody but those with the most guns. It would ensure that there would be no line drawn between strength and "right"...
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You mean like it is now?
 
AssHatZombie said:
You mean like it is now?
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Not quite. We apply the balm of government too thickly and too often in the name of "security", in this case we become fascistic with the government taking a role in "private" business.

A feudal system is quite different, based entirely on force.
 
Damocles said:
Not quite. We apply the balm of government too thickly and too often in the name of "security", in this case we become fascistic with the government taking a role in "private" business.

A feudal system is quite different, based entirely on force.
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All governments are based on force.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Entirely, but not yes. Levelled forces of difference differentiated in applied areas is what different governments make.
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My point was, if you remove all government it simply is replaced with a more primitive version which applies force more directly and in less desirable ways.

You may be sure your life would be better without our current form of government, but removing it entirely would ensure that for most people there would be a decided and remarkable turn in the opposite direction. It is a necessary evil because the other choice is untenable, impossible, and eventually turns into a free for all. A return to feudal systems of government is not desirable.
 
Damocles said:
My point was, if you remove all government it simply is replaced with a more primitive version which applies force more directly and in less desirable ways.

You may be sure your life would be better without our current form of government, but removing it entirely would ensure that for most people there would be a decided and remarkable turn in the opposite direction.
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I disagree. One centralized government seems like a great idea at first, but when that government turns against the people as it is now, it's power is absolute, and the people are caught off guard and have no recourse.

Our hierarchical and centralized societies merely facilitate a new class of elitists who's full time job is figuring out ways to further enslave the people, while making it legal and brainwashing them into acceptance at the same time. This is the kind of "advancement" we can do without.

If these people were more down in the muck and mire with the rest of us, actually NEEDING our alliance for their own survival, our totalitarianism would not be as complete.
 
AssHatZombie said:
I disagree. One centralized government seems like a great idea at first, but when that government turns against the people as it is now, it's power is absolute, and the people are caught off guard and have no recourse.

Our hierarchical and centralized societies merely facilitate a new class of elitists who's full time job is figuring out ways to further enslave the people, while making it legal and brainwashing them into acceptance at the same time. This is the kind of "advancement" we can do without.

If these people were more down in the muck and mire with the rest of us, actually NEEDING our alliance for their own survival, our totalitarianism would not be as complete.
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What portion of my post supports one central government that holds all the power? You are battling a straw man, a weak and obvious one, you even forgot to put clothes on it. And whether you disagree or not, we pretty much have history to look back on and see what happens in places without government.

Warlords in Afghanistan are a good example. The Taliban another. The idea that those people have been better off because the limited amount of "government" is silly. The people with the weapons simply hold the power and more directly own the populace. It would be like living in a prison constantly working to avoid being the prison beeyatch... In such forms government holds far more power over the individual and invades even more often into their personal liberties.

In such forms of government there are no limits to apply, not even a slight assurance of "justice". It is not a preferable form of government for anybody except those who hold the weapons.
 
Lowaicue said:
So since Socialism is not Communism, socialism works.... or have I got you wrong? Incidentally, you talk of communism. Care to give an example of a communist government?
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If you had any reading comprehension, you'd know that I did indeed say socialism works.......when it's practiced VOLUNTARILY by all the members of the community. And FYI, enforced socialism does lead to communism.

you need an example of a communist government? where do you live again?
 
Lowaicue said:
Don't need it? Then get rid of it. You live in a free country, don't you? You have guns, don't you? Get rid of your government. Plant cabbages on the Whitehouse lawn, empty the government offices and fill them with the homeless.
If you can make it work then do it.
If you don't think it's possible STFU!
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ZOMG!!! WE MUST HAVE GOVERNMENT OR PEOPLE WOULD REALLY BE FREE!!!!
 
Damocles said:
What portion of my post supports one central government that holds all the power? You are battling a straw man, a weak and obvious one, you even forgot to put clothes on it. And whether you disagree or not, we pretty much have history to look back on and see what happens in places without government.

Warlords in Afghanistan are a good example. The Taliban another. The idea that those people have been better off because the limited amount of "government" is silly. The people with the weapons simply hold the power and more directly own the populace. It would be like living in a prison constantly working to avoid being the prison beeyatch... In such forms government holds far more power over the individual and invades even more often into their personal liberties.

In such forms of government there are no limits to apply, not even a slight assurance of "justice". It is not a preferable form of government for anybody except those who hold the weapons.
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you mean like the one we have now?
 
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