A new Russian-Finnish war is coming

[PostmodernProphet]

So what do we learn?

that no one since Hitler has attacked Russia.....thanks for proving my point.......

 

[Walt]

that no one since Hitler has attacked Russia.

Moscow was just attacked by terrorists. And it has been attacked by drones multiple times in the last year.

Free Russia Legion has sporadically attacked Russia, seizing small towns across the border for hours or days. The Wagner Group seized the staging city for the Russian Army in Ukraine, and attacked north towards Moscow. Interesting enough, no one decided to directly challenge the Wagner Group on that one.

The Afghans regularly attacked over the border. While this was not technically Russia, it was the USSR, so under the supposed protection of Russia (one country).

The Chinese had small border conflicts which included incursions into Russia.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Moscow was just attacked by terrorists. And it has been attacked by drones multiple times in the last year.

Free Russia Legion has sporadically attacked Russia, seizing small towns across the border for hours or days. The Wagner Group seized the staging city for the Russian Army in Ukraine, and attacked north towards Moscow. Interesting enough, no one decided to directly challenge the Wagner Group on that one.

The Afghans regularly attacked over the border. While this was not technically Russia, it was the USSR, so under the supposed protection of Russia (one country).

The Chinese had small border conflicts which included incursions into Russia.

and yet Russia invaded Georgia, Croatia and Ukraine instead......proving my point even more....

 

[Walt]

Russia definitely invaded Georgia and Ukraine, but...

and yet Russia invaded Georgia, Croatia and Ukraine instead......proving my point even more....

Serbia attacked Croatia in the early 1990's. I could be missing something, but I do not think Russia did. Croatia is part of NATO and the EU. If Russia had attacked Croatia, there would be a bigger war. Could you be thinking of Chechnya?

Chechnya was not an independent state, but rather a semi-autonomous region within Russia. It attempted, and failed to get independence. Technically, that is not Russia invading another country.

 

[IBDaMann]

He has insinuated that he would let "Russia do whatever the hell they want"

Nope. You are assigning bogus positions strictly out of TDS. Nothing you say is true.

Trump doesn't "insinuate" anything. He clearly states his positions and his clearly stated position is that NATO countries need to pay what they owe. What about this do you not understand?

You can't trust the lying piece of shit in anything he says.

List the top five lies stated by Donald Trump in the execution of his official duties as President that are what he actually stated and not what you insanely claim he "insinuated".

Right here:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

... then let's discuss.

 

[Nordberg]

There is no way Finland would attack Russia. The premise is absurd. Russia is a warmongering nation. They periodically attack a neighbor. If it works, then another one.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

lets amend that to Crimea..

 

[goat]

Eastern expansion started under Bush, not Clinton. There is no aggression in having countries band together in defense.



Where are the US military bases in central and southern Asia? There are US military bases west of Russia(in Europe), east of China, and I suppose technically north of Russia (over the North Pole and in Canada and the US), but no bases to the south of Russia and west of China.



Having an alliance is not a war of aggression. The Geneva Convention does not comment on wars of aggression. A war of aggression would be considered a crime against peace, not really a war crime.

In Goat's disturbed mind, Russia invading other countries makes Putin the victim of aggression.

You spent a little time on Google and think you can change 75 years of USSR history.

Here is a map of US military bases around the world. Show me a map of Russian bases.

Threatening the world with sanctions and bombs is not an alliance. Biden bragged about blowing up the Nord Stream, which half of it belonged to Germany.

You're what they call a merchant of doubt. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

 

[goat]

Russia definitely invaded Georgia and Ukraine, but...



Serbia attacked Croatia in the early 1990's. I could be missing something, but I do not think Russia did. Croatia is part of NATO and the EU. If Russia had attacked Croatia, there would be a bigger war. Could you be thinking of Chechnya?

Chechnya was not an independent state, but rather a semi-autonomous region within Russia. It attempted, and failed to get independence. Technically, that is not Russia invading another country.

Croatia is a giant US military base. Yugoslavia refused to allow the US to build a base there so the US bombed it off the map. You can't learn about world history by spending a little time on Google.

 

[IBDaMann]

Walt, this is a very good post.

There is no aggression in having countries band together in defense.

I believe this is the definition of "diplomacy."

Where are the US military bases in central and southern Asia?

Instead of "bases" in those places, we have "areas."

Having an alliance is not a war of aggression.

Exactly, and a defensive missile defense system is not a menacing weapon.

The Geneva Convention does not comment on wars of aggression.

The Fourth Geneva Convention does cover wars of aggression. It states the responsibilities of invading/occupying forces. Israel, for example, immediately began violating the Geneva Conventions the moment the IDF invaded Gaza. Thei IDF had the responsibility to actively protect all lawful noncombatants, to provide all necessary medical aid to all lawful combatants and noncombatants, to provide special protections to children under 14 years of age and to women, to ensure availability of food and potable water, and lots of other requirements that Israel never had any intention of meeting.

A war of aggression would be considered a crime against peace, not really a war crime.

A war of aggression is not a crime at all according to the Fourth Geneva Convention, but failure to protect the civilian population, levying collective punishment, carrying out executions, blockading food and starving the population, destroying all medical facilities, and murdering children by the thousands are all egregious war crimes.

In Goat's disturbed mind, Russia invading other countries makes Putin the victim of aggression.

Goat thinks that possessing a weapon makes one guilty of "threatening the world."

 

[Walt]

Here is a map of US military bases around the world. Show me a map of Russian bases.

According to your map, we have a major military base in Moscow, and another in Beijing. Think about that claim for a minute.

Threatening the world with sanctions and bombs is not an alliance.

The Central European countries joined NATO because they wanted shared protection, not because they had been bombed into doing so.

Biden bragged about blowing up the Nord Stream, which half of it belonged to Germany.

No, Biden did not.

 

[Walt]

Croatia is a giant US military base. Yugoslavia refused to allow the US to build a base there so the US bombed it off the map. You can't learn about world history by spending a little time on Google.

There is little point to having Croatian military bases. It is not strategically placed. There are no US military bases in Croatia. There are not even US military forces permanently stationed in significant numbers. US forces rotate through there from time to time for training Croatian forces, but there are months between these rotations, and it is only small numbers.

Yugoslavia broke up 7 years before the Bombing of Serbia. The US had no part in the breakup of Yugoslavia, and there is no possible way that the bombing could have. The breakup of Yugoslavia led to genocide, which in turn led to the bombing, not the other way around.

So once again, everything posted by the alt right is a fantasy.

 

[Walt]

Instead of "bases" in those places, we have "areas."

We do not have bases (or areas) in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. That is a line from Syria to the Philippines. We do not have military bases in any of the Central Asian former Soviet Republics.

We have recently had military bases in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, but obviously those are gone. We might still have some military in Syria, and probably still have military in Jordan. There is talk of a naval base being put in Vietnam, which is strange to anyone who remembers the Vietnam War.

Exactly, and a defensive missile defense system is not a menacing weapon.

It is not the most menacing weapon by a long shot, but could be used to shoot down planes in another country.

Israel, for example, immediately began violating the Geneva Conventions the moment the IDF invaded Gaza.

Not as cut and dry as that. First off, Israel already legally occupied Gaza. It had pulled back its forces, but never conceded sovereignty. Legally, this was like the US moving forces into Florida. It is not an international war.

Second, the IDF was attacking forces that had attacked Israeli civilians. This is not even a preemptive attack, it is a counter strike. That is generally allowed.

Thei IDF had the responsibility to actively protect all lawful noncombatants, to provide all necessary medical aid to all lawful combatants and noncombatants, to provide special protections to children under 14 years of age and to women, to ensure availability of food and potable water, and lots of other requirements that Israel never had any intention of meeting.

And here we get into the dicey area. The IDF is probably allowing famine. They are technically not occupying the place where the civilians are now, and not technically stopping aid from entering Gaza. But they are de facto doing both.

Also the IDF has not done as much as they could to prevent civilian casualties. Here too is a gray area, because Hamas is using those civilians as human shields.

 

[goat]

According to your map, we have a major military base in Moscow, and another in Beijing. Think about that claim for a minute.

Keep baffling us with your bullshit. That map doesn't show the US military bases built inside an existing foreign military base because the pentagon doesn't want the taxpayer to see why we can't afford infrastructure here in the states.

Our planes are falling from the sky, our trains are running off the tracks, and our ships are crashing into bridges.

 

[goat]

The US had no part in the breakup of Yugoslavia

Your knowledge of world history is as bad as your knowledge of economics. You spend way too much time on Google instead of reading books that explain why Clinton and Blair bombed Yugoslavia off the map.

 

[Nordberg]

You spent a little time on Google and think you can change 75 years of USSR history.

Here is a map of US military bases around the world. Show me a map of Russian bases.

Threatening the world with sanctions and bombs is not an alliance. Biden bragged about blowing up the Nord Stream, which half of it belonged to Germany.

You're what they call a merchant of doubt. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

That does not follow the subject, America has been very expansionist in military and economics. This thread is about Russia attacking neighbors. The US has not done that for a long time. Russia does it as a matter of their personality. They just think they have a right to take over their neighbors.

 

[goat]

That does not follow the subject, America has been very expansionist in military and economics. This thread is about Russia attacking neighbors. The US has not done that for a long time. Russia does it as a matter of their personality. They just think they have a right to take over their neighbors.

Why is the US putting missiles in Finland? Putin calls it an act of aggression and has the right to defend Russia from neocons.

 

[Walt]

Keep baffling us with your bullshit.

You are the one with a map showing a major US military base in the Moscow area. In short, they are counting any group of a few soldiers as a base, and there are a few Marines doing security at the Moscow Embassy. This is not a real military force, in the sense it would have no chance against the real military(or police) of Russia. In fact, we saw with Iran that even a few hundred students could easily defeat Marine security.

That map doesn't show the US military bases built inside an existing foreign military base because the pentagon doesn't want the taxpayer to see why we can't afford infrastructure here in the states.

There are real foreign owned military bases heavily used by American forces. For instance, almost all the Air Force bases in the UK are actually British Air Force bases.

That being said, the military budget is almost entirely public. Many times the foreign government is paying for the base itself, with the US only paying for the personnel and equipment. Sometimes the foreign government will even pay for the fuel that the US Air Forces uses.

With less developed countries, or countries that do not share our missions, the US Government will sometimes pay for the base through foreign aid, or as a line item in the military budget. Both are listed in the public budget.

What is not always listed is where the bases are. So looking at the budget, it would be impossible to know what money went to bases in Jordan, or Syria.

Our planes are falling from the sky, our trains are running off the tracks, and our ships are crashing into bridges.

If you had ever been to Russia, you would realize how good we have it. If you had ever been to Western or Northern Europe, you would realize how bad we have it.

 

[Walt]

Your knowledge of world history is as bad as your knowledge of economics. You spend way too much time on Google instead of reading books that explain why Clinton and Blair bombed Yugoslavia off the map.

I was in Europe at the time of the breakup, and Clinton was not President. Yugoslavia broke up when Bush (the elder) was President, back in 1992. John Major(who as a boy ran away from the circus to become an accoutant) was Prime Minister.

Yugoslavia ceased to exist in 1992, but Serbia on and off claimed to be Yugoslavia. They were bombed in 1999, 7 years later, while they tried to commit ethnic cleansing.

 

[Walt]

Why is the US putting missiles in Finland? Putin calls it an act of aggression and has the right to defend Russia from neocons.

Finland has some good missiles and artillery, so ours are not needed. What is helping Finland is integrating to our targeting system. They would also like some of our anti-aircraft systems, but we really do not have enough now, so they will probably be buying them without us.