Administration scrambled to abort

[Bfgrn]

LOL Ever hear of "The Bush Doctrine"? Real leaders confide in their staff, ask for options, then make bold decisions that determine the course of history. They don't mull around for nearly a day contemplating the political fallout, while the staff finally makes a relatively minor decision for them.

Yes, I have heard of the Bush Doctrine. The difference is I KNOW WHAT the Bush Doctrine IS. You clearly don't. It has nothing to do with how decisions are made. It is an ultra aggressive foreign policy agenda that was originally developed by the war hawk neocons. The Bush doctrine is what was once called the Wolfowitz doctrine with lipstick.

Interesting, here is what the neocons think of Bush's competence and his decision making.

Neocons turn on Bush for incompetence

“The decisions did not get made that should have been. They didn’t get made in a timely fashion, and the differences were argued out endlessly.… At the end of the day, you have to hold the president responsible.… I don’t think he realized the extent of the opposition within his own administration, and the disloyalty.”

“In the administration that I served [Perle was an assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan], there was a one-sentence description of the decision-making process when consensus could not be reached among disputatious departments: ‘The president makes the decision.’ [Bush] did not make decisions, in part because the machinery of government that he nominally ran was actually running him. The National Security Council was not serving [Bush] properly. He regarded [then National-Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice] as part of the family.”
Richard Perle - chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee

“I just presumed that what I considered to be the most competent national-security team since Truman was indeed going to be competent. They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the post-war era. Not only did each of them, individually, have enormous flaws, but together they were deadly, dysfunctional.”
Kenneth Adelman - Pentagon insider who served on the Defense Policy Board until 2005

“Bush doesn’t in fact seem to be a man of principle who’s steadfastly pursuing what he thinks is the right course. He talks about it, but the policy doesn’t track with the rhetoric, and that’s what creates the incoherence that causes us problems around the world and at home. It also creates the sense that you can take him on with impunity.”
Frank Gaffney - assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan and founder of the Center for Security Policy

“I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything.”
David Frum - former White House speechwriter who co-wrote Bush’s 2002 State of the Union address

“Ask yourself who the most powerful people in the White House are. They are women who are in love with the president: Laura [Bush], Condi, Harriet Miers, and Karen Hughes.”
Michael Ledeen - American Enterprise Institute freedom scholar

 

[DamnYankee]

Yes, I have heard of the Bush Doctrine. The difference is I KNOW WHAT the Bush Doctrine IS.

Of course, Your Obama has continued the policy...

 

[Bfgrn]

Of course, Your Obama has continued the policy...

He is OUR President, just like Bush was our President.

Obama has not done anything in foreign policy he didn't campaign on. He said he would end military missions in Iraq and concentrate on Afghanistan.

But he has not continued the Bush Doctrine of preemptive war.

 

[DamnYankee]

He is OUR President, just like Bush was our President.

Obama has not done anything in foreign policy he didn't campaign on. He said he would end military missions in Iraq and concentrate on Afghanistan.

But he has not continued the Bush Doctrine of preemptive war.

As I predicted it is you who don't know what the Bush Doctrine is, and that Your Obama has followed it. Here's a column from the man who actually coined the phrase that documents exactly that:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini.../2011/05/19/AF4dFN7G_story.html?nav=emailpage

Herewith President Obama’s Middle East speech , annotated:

“It will be the policy of the United States to promote reform across the region, and to support transitions to democracy.”

With this Barack Obama openly, unreservedly and without a trace of irony or self-reflection adopts the Bush Doctrine, which made the spread of democracy the key U.S. objective in the Middle East.

 

[Topspin]

damn Yankee is a widestance traitor

 

[Bfgrn]

As I predicted it is you who don't know what the Bush Doctrine is, and that Your Obama has followed it. Here's a column from the man who actually coined the phrase that documents exactly that:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini.../2011/05/19/AF4dFN7G_story.html?nav=emailpage

Neocon Charles Krauthammer? LOL!

The Bush Doctrine is a phrase used to describe various related foreign policy principles of former United States president George W. Bush. The phrase was first used by Charles Krauthammer in June 2001 to describe the Bush Administration's unilateral withdrawals from the ABM treaty and the Kyoto Protocol. The phrase initially described the policy that the United States had the right to secure itself against countries that harbor or give aid to terrorist groups, which was used to justify the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan.

Different pundits would attribute different meanings to "the Bush Doctrine", as it came to describe other elements, including the controversial policy of preventive war, which held that the United States should depose foreign regimes that represented a potential or perceived threat to the security of the United States, even if that threat was not immediate; a policy of spreading democracy around the world, especially in the Middle East, as a strategy for combating terrorism; and a willingness to unilaterally pursue U.S. military interests. Some of these policies were codified in a National Security Council text entitled the National Security Strategy of the United States published on September 20, 2002.

Unilateralism

Unilateral elements were evident in the first months of Bush's presidency. Conservative commentator Charles Krauthammer, coiner of the term "Bush Doctrine," deployed "unilateralism," in February 2001 to refer to the president's increased unilateralism in foreign policy, specifically regarding the president's decision to withdraw from the ABM treaty.

Pre-emptive strikes

Bush addressed the cadets at the U.S. Military Academy (West Point) on June 1, 2002, and made clear the role pre-emptive war would play in the future of American foreign policy and national defense.

Neoconservatives

The Bush Doctrine, and neoconservative reasoning, held that containment of the enemy as under the Realpolitik of Reagan does not work, and that the enemy of United States must be destroyed before he attacks — using all the United States' available means, resources and influences to do so.



The Obama Doctrine is a term frequently used to describe one or several unifying principles of the foreign policy of Barack Obama. Unlike the Monroe Doctrine, the Obama Doctrine is not a specific foreign policy introduced by the executive, but rather a phrase used to describe Obama's general style of foreign policy. This has left journalists and political commentators to speculate on what the exact tenets of an Obama Doctrine might look like. Generally speaking, it is accepted that a central part of such a doctrine would be negotiation and collaboration over confrontation and unilateralism in international affairs. This policy has been praised by some as a welcome change from the more interventionist Bush Doctrine. Critics, such as former United States Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton, have described it as overly idealistic and naïve, promoting appeasement with the country's enemies. Others have drawn attention to its radical departure from not only the policies of the Bush administration but many former presidents as well. Meanwhile, additional political pundits have disagreed entirely, accusing Obama of continuing the policies of his predecessor.

wiki

 

[DamnYankee]

Neocon Charles Krauthammer? LOL!

I know something about the subject because, as the Wikipedia entry on the Bush doctrine notes, I was the first to use the term.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202457.html

 

[DamnYankee]

damn Yankee is a widestance traitor

I must have hit a nerve with my "TopGay" comment as it caused you to groan me five times in a row.

 

[Topspin]

I don't read your shit back beard burns

 

[Bfgrn]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202457.html

You claim to be the ultimate conservative, but you talk and think like a neocon...a Trotskyist. You sure don't know the history of conservatism. You must be a teenager.

Bush and the neocons developed a radical foreign policy that was a huge departure from what every president had done before. Preemptive wars of ideology, unilateralism over multilateralism, talk of pulling out of the UN, invasions of sovereign countries, and force over negotiation.

The history of conservatism in my lifetime was one of staunch non-intervention and even isolation led by the likes of Robert Taft. A principled man who condemned the postwar Nuremberg Trials as victor's justice. Taft condemned the trials as a violation of the most basic principles of American justice and internationally accepted standards of justice.

NOW...Because Obama has returned sanity to our foreign policy, you want back the Bush/neocon radicalism.



The defense policy of the United States is based on a simple premise: The United States does not start fights. We will never be an aggressor.
Ronald Reagan

No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology.
Ronald Reagan

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in...war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear.
General Douglas MacArthur

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Our nation is somewhat sad, but we’re angry. There’s a certain level of blood lust, but we won’t let it drive our reaction. We’re steady, clear-eyed and patient, but pretty soon we’ll have to start displaying scalps.
George W. Bush

 

[DamnYankee]

I don't read your shit back beard burns

Sure. That's why you go on your monthly schedule of insults to me, escalate to my family, then I beat you down and you get frustrated, then put me in ignore for a week, then you get curious, start reading again and the process repeats. I'm thinking you have more female hormones than can be considered normal, which explains the monthly cycles, your small dick syndrome and you're man-boobs.

 

[Topspin]

Sure. That's why you go on your monthly schedule of insults to me, escalate to my family, then I beat you down and you get frustrated, then put me in ignore for a week, then you get curious, start reading again and the process repeats. I'm thinking you have more female hormones than can be considered normal, which explains the monthly cycles, your small dick syndrome and you're man-boobs.

I get blow jobs from woman, you don't

 

[DamnYankee]

You claim to be the ultimate conservative, but you talk and think like a neocon...a Trotskyist. You sure don't know the history of conservatism. You must be a teenager.

Again you make up your own definitions of terms to suit your argument. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way as I just demonstrated to you with the Bush Doctrine. I just made you look like a fool; do I need to do it again?

 

[DamnYankee]

I get blow jobs from woman, you don't

You get blow jobs from men too; I don't.

 

[Bfgrn]

Again you make up your own definitions of terms to suit your argument. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way as I just demonstrated to you with the Bush Doctrine. I just made you look like a fool; do I need to do it again?

Really? Because you say so? You don't know shit sonny boy, I didn't make anything up. The Bush Doctrine and Obama's foreign policies are not the same. Promoting democracy throughout the world is what EVERY American president has done. The WAY it's done is seminal. When Obama decides to unilaterally invade a sovereign nation to spread democracy by force, come back with something that is intelligent. Krauthammer is a fucking neocon moron who is looking for any excuse to validate his right wing extremism.

 

[DamnYankee]

Really? Because you say so? You don't know shit sonny boy, I didn't make anything up. The Bush Doctrine and Obama's foreign policies are not the same. Promoting democracy throughout the world is what EVERY American president has done. The WAY it's done is seminal. When Obama decides to unilaterally invade a sovereign nation to spread democracy by force, come back with something that is intelligent. Krauthammer is a fucking neocon moron who is looking for any excuse to validate his right wing extremism.

Krauthammer coined the phrase therefore he gets to define it, not you. And Krauthammer explained to you that Your Messiah is, in fact, sticking with the Bush Doctrine. All the name calling, spinning, whining and crying isn't going to change that simple fact.

 

[Bfgrn]

Krauthammer coined the phrase therefore he gets to define it, not you. And Krauthammer explained to you that Your Messiah is, in fact, sticking with the Bush Doctrine. All the name calling, spinning, whining and crying isn't going to change that simple fact.

Don't let any FACTS interrupt your dogma, ignorance and Bush ass licking...

Just because hammerhead coined a phrase, he still doesn't get to change the facts to fit his ego.

When Obama decides to unilaterally invade a sovereign nation to spread democracy by force, you and hammerhead will have a valid point. Without that seminal event, it is nothing but wind.

 

[DamnYankee]

Don't let any FACTS interrupt your dogma, ignorance and Bush ass licking...

Just because hammerhead coined a phrase, he still doesn't get to change the facts to fit his ego.

When Obama decides to unilaterally invade a sovereign nation to spread democracy by force, you and hammerhead will have a valid point. Without that seminal event, it is nothing but wind.

Again you resort to defining the term yourself, along with name-calling, whining and crying.

 

[Bfgrn]

Again you resort to defining the term yourself, along with name-calling, whining and crying.

HERE is what hammerhead gleaned from Obama's speech:

“It will be the policy of the United States to promote reform across the region, and to support transitions to democracy.”

To twist that into support of the Bush doctrine is disingenuous by hammerhead. But you right wing word bound pea brains are never able to decipher nuance. If that was all there was to the Bush doctrine, there would never have been a HUGE debate, criticism, controversy and opposition to it. I will highlight the part YOU need to prove Obama said or implied...

In a series of speeches in late 2001 and 2002, Bush expanded on his view of American foreign policy and global intervention, declaring that the United States should actively support democratic governments around the world, especially in the Middle East, as a strategy for combating the threat of terrorism, and that the United States had the right to act unilaterally in its own security interests, without the approval of international bodies such as the United Nations. This represented a departure from the Cold War policies of deterrence and containment under the Truman Doctrine and post–Cold War philosophies such as the Powell Doctrine and the Clinton Doctrine.

Foreign interventionism

The foreign policy of the Bush Doctrine was subject to controversy both in the United States and internationally.

Critics of the policies were suspicious of the increasing willingness of the United States to use military force unilaterally.

Robert W. Tucker and David C. Hendrickson argued that it reflects a turn away from international law, and marks the end of American legitimacy in foreign affairs.

Others have stated that it could lead to other states resorting to the production of WMD or terrorist activities. This doctrine is argued to be contrary to the Just War Theory and would constitute a war of aggression. Patrick J. Buchanan writes that the 2003 invasion of Iraq has significant similarities to the 1996 neoconservative policy paper A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.

Radical departure

According to Buchanan and others, the Bush Doctrine was a radical departure from former United States foreign policies, and a continuation of the radical ideological roots of neoconservatism. wiki

 

[DamnYankee]

...and that the United States had the right to act unilaterally in its own security interests, without the approval of international bodies such as the United Nations.

Like killing bin Laden?