APP - Are Newsmax, OANN, and Fox Media threats to American Democracy?

[T. A. Gardner]

I have, but thanks for the advice. Be sure you remain skeptical too since your factcheckers are human too.

BTW, which one said Media Bias or Politifact was "badly biased"? I couldn't find it in either one.

The bottom line here is for the individual to use critical thinking to determine what is most likely fact and what is most likely bullshit. Media Bias is a good reference, but I still give it leeway. When it says a source is centered, left or right, I give it a little range for bias. Obviously Fox news isn't really LW and CNN isn't RW. How far Right or Left is can be seen for oneself by watching them.

Or do you rigorously beleive your own sources as coming down for God or Trump himself?

When it comes to the Mediabias site, I generally move everything marked Left of Center down and left one block, that seems about right while I move everything Right of Center up and left one block. Now, that's not by any means perfect, bit it does appear to fit quite well most of the time.

 

[Commander Dutch]

When it comes to the Mediabias site, I generally move everything marked Left of Center down and left one block, that seems about right while I move everything Right of Center up and left one block. Now, that's not by any means perfect, bit it does appear to fit quite well most of the time.

A judgement call.

Skepticism is good. I like to look at various polls for a general sense while recognizing it's only a snapshot and everything changes. That's one reason why I like Real Clear Politics. They sum up other polls data.

Example: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html

So who watches them? Every company/poll they list. Businesses, the free market, is self-correcting within the rules**. Some groups are really stupid, but that's rare. Internet businesses are no different.


**Mlyan, maker of EpiPen fucked themselves: https://www.forbes.com/sites/arlene...ility-for-epipen-price-hikes/?sh=3d5d2c01393c

 

[Truth Detector]

Most of the information presented by Fox OAN and Newsmax pretends to be news but is opinion. Opinion that appeals to a segment of society that already agrees. Opinionated presentation targets divisive issues rather than reporting or analysis. It is an internal political correctness that sees news or politics through an agreed upon lenses that is often anti-democratic, anti-science, and even anti-intelligence. These media sources pretend to be conservative they are not. They conserve nothing, they posture, dismiss, and divide.

It is an irony that Fox has become worse in an attempt to keep OAN and Newsmax at bay. Viewers are money. Modern American so called Conservative media now vies for the ridiculous if it feeds a bias, a hate, or criticizes. Add to this the death of local media along with the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine, Citizen's United, and the goose is cooked. Dark Money now rules.

Add online media sources that appear in searches and news feeds. Many of these are dark money supported sites pretending to be news when they are agitprop. Political power and corporate power do not like democracy. Democracy too often muddies the water, a citizen sees the world differently than a government bureaucrat or a profit seeking corporate officer. How does that corporation control democracy, it controls the information media presents and it targets information based on the social profiles of its viewers, often white and rural. Dog whistles dominate.

Democratic government is the favorite bogeyman of autocratic government. Lesser players in this game of deception include Breitbart, Townhall, and a host of sites that can be found in Internet searches - questionable sources are covered in links below. Online trolls have also proliferated in online social media. Some even gravitate to conspiracy sites or ideas of secession. This divisiveness takes many forms such as private schools, religious separation, and isolated rural community settings. Public education is too democratic, too open. How for instance could a pandemic become something other than a pandemic. Gaslighting from Fox ET AL have created a world of doubt. America leads the world in Covid-19 deaths, misinformation has consequences.

So how do we understand the topic question when media is opinion, distortion, dog whistles, targeted, oppositional, using loaded words, words meant as pejorative or audience specific? Content without thought, words like 'cancel' 'woke' 'leftist' 'liberal' 'socialist' 'border' 'trans' 'guns' etcetera. What do they really mean outside the club? Their appeal is to tribe, to emotion, not content or analysis. Misinformation and distortion weaken a nation's political conversation. Ask always who benefits, what is its purpose, and is the information news or opinion. Seek sources that explain without always pointing fingers.

Daniel Pipes wrote. "First, democracy is more than holding elections; it requires the development of civil society, meaning such complex and counter intuitive institutions as the rule of law, an independent judiciary, multiple political parties, minority rights, voluntary associations, freedom of expression, movement, and assembly. Democracy is a learned habit, not an instinctive one, that requires deep attitudinal changes such as a culture of restraint, a commonality of values, a respect for differences of view, the concept of loyal opposition, and a sense of civic responsibility."

'The Five Biggest Threats Our Democracy Faces'

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/five-biggest-threats-our-democracy-faces

And the SCOTUS threat:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-biden-expand-supreme-court-trump-republicans

Information Sources to check:

https://iffy.news/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fake-news/
http://politics.flackcheck.org/patterns-of-deception/

One online news site I recommend: https://www.theguardian.com/us


"Let us wage a moral and political war against the billionaires and corporate leaders, on Wall Street and elsewhere, whose policies and greed are destroying the middle class of America." Bernie Sanders

No; but Marxist loving, America hating leftists and the Democratic Party of the JACKASS are.

 

[AProudLefty]

I find it very interesting that if one was to ask others why they doubt factcheckers, all they could come up with maybe one or two examples of erroneous factchecking.
I also find it very interesting that the same people think factcheckers are too biased because their favorite RW media says so.

 

[AProudLefty]

No; but Marxist loving, America hating leftists and the Democratic Party of the JACKASS are.

 

[Commander Dutch]

I find it very interesting that if one was to ask others why they doubt factcheckers, all they could come up with maybe one or two examples of erroneous factchecking.
I also find it very interesting that the same people think factcheckers are too biased because their favorite RW media says so.

Agreed. Not to mention that it wasn't the JPP members who caught the factcheckers, but other media or factcheckers.

It's good to be skeptical, but, to paraphrase Prof. Walter Kotschnig, not so skeptical one's brains fall out.

 

[AProudLefty]

Agreed. Not to mention that it wasn't the JPP members who caught the factcheckers, but other media or factcheckers.

It's good to be skeptical, but, to paraphrase Prof. Walter Kotschnig, not so skeptical one's brains fall out.

I wonder if they are even aware that those factchecks always analyze the facts with references and where the misinformation are coming from.

So genetic fallacy doesn't apply here.

 

[Commander Dutch]

I wonder if they are even aware that those factchecks always analyze the facts with references and where the misinformation are coming from.

So genetic fallacy doesn't apply here.

They're "skeptical". LOL

I wish that were true, but it isn't. Genetic fallacies are often the first line of attack which is why I like to use a Fox News reference when dealing with a Trumpazoid and CNN or MSNBC for a Democrat. It helps cut the bullshit.

 

[Truth Detector]

legion:

 

[Truth Detector]

I find it very interesting that if one was to ask others why they doubt factcheckers, all they could come up with maybe one or two examples of erroneous factchecking.
I also find it very interesting that the same people think factcheckers are too biased because their favorite RW media says so.

Agreed. Not to mention that it wasn't the JPP members who caught the factcheckers, but other media or factcheckers.

It's good to be skeptical, but, to paraphrase Prof. Walter Kotschnig, not so skeptical one's brains fall out.

 

[Truth Detector]

I find it very interesting that if one was to ask others why they doubt factcheckers, all they could come up with maybe one or two examples of erroneous factchecking.
I also find it very interesting that the same people think factcheckers are too biased because their favorite RW media says so.

I wonder if they are even aware that those factchecks always analyze the facts with references and where the misinformation are coming from.

So genetic fallacy doesn't apply here.

They're "skeptical". LOL

I wish that were true, but it isn't. Genetic fallacies are often the first line of attack which is why I like to use a Fox News reference when dealing with a Trumpazoid and CNN or MSNBC for a Democrat. It helps cut the bullshit.

 

[Commander Dutch]

That's a good picture of what you look like posting. Simple, stupid and playing with yourself.

 

[Truth Detector]

That's a good picture of what you look like posting. Simple, stupid and playing with yourself.

The definition of I R O N Y! Buy a mirror you sad, pathetic asswhipe.

 

[Commander Dutch]

The definition of I R O N Y! Buy a mirror you sad, pathetic asswhipe.

Dude, you're the one constantly pissing your Depends with oversized, colored font and other Drama Queen antics.

 

[Truth Detector]

Dude, you're the one constantly pissing your Depends with oversized, colored font and other Drama Queen antics.

 

[midcan5]

Darn, this thread went downhill. Back on topic:

There is a serious issue here, Fox OAN Newsmax are propaganda sites full of lies and an unbalanced reporting of the daily happening of politics etc in America and the world. Their viewers are misinformed, lied too really. While education matters, a fair and balanced media helps everyone understand important issues.

Going forward it is important Americans call a spade a spade. The republican party today is fascist and not democratic. Democracy does not appeal to fascists. That is clearly evident in the lack of support for an investigation about Jan 6th. Thankfully our DOJ is doing the hard work. Money manages the republican party and the irony is many in the working class by into their lies.

I watch Newsmax and OAN more frequently than Fox. All distort and are one sided, finger pointing only, it is time to call them the 'woke fascists' they are, who see everything through biased glasses and work to hurt and cripple our democracy. Why and for whom, is the hard question but you know what they say about money.


"First, democracy is more than holding elections; it requires the development of civil society, meaning such complex and counterintuitive institutions as the rule of law, an independent judiciary, multiple political parties, minority rights, voluntary associations, freedom of expression, movement, and assembly. Democracy is a learned habit, not an instinctive one, that requires deep attitudinal changes such as a culture of restraint, a commonality of values, a respect for differences of view, the concept of loyal opposition, and a sense of civic responsibility." Daniel Pipes

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov


See links for 'Failed Fact Checks'

Newsmax https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsmax/

OAN https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/one-america-news-network/


'The Republican revolt against democracy, explained in 13 charts'

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22274429/republicans-anti-democracy-13-charts

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I have, but thanks for the advice. Be sure you remain skeptical too since your factcheckers are human too.

BTW, which one said Media Bias or Politifact was "badly biased"? I couldn't find it in either one.

The bottom line here is for the individual to use critical thinking to determine what is most likely fact and what is most likely bullshit. Media Bias is a good reference, but I still give it leeway. When it says a source is centered, left or right, I give it a little range for bias. Obviously Fox news isn't really LW and CNN isn't RW. How far Right or Left is can be seen for oneself by watching them.

Or do you rigorously beleive your own sources as coming down for God or Trump himself?

Absolutely! But at least I'm paying enough attention to do that. Most people, and particularly those that lean Left simply see agreement with their own views in what these fact checkers say and accept their judgement at face value. That is, they question nothing and accept everything because it jibes with their own prejudices.

Me? These fact checkers are all a bunch of idiot liberal arts majors that wouldn't know what Ʃx in a statistical analysis was for. It's all Greek to them. Their intellect is an inch deep and a centimeter wide. I don't buy anything they say on the face of it.

 

[Commander Dutch]

Absolutely! But at least I'm paying enough attention to do that. Most people, and particularly those that lean Left simply see agreement with their own views in what these fact checkers say and accept their judgement at face value. That is, they question nothing and accept everything because it jibes with their own prejudices.

Me? These fact checkers are all a bunch of idiot liberal arts majors that wouldn't know what Ʃx in a statistical analysis was for. It's all Greek to them. Their intellect is an inch deep and a centimeter wide. I don't buy anything they say on the face of it.

My guess is that blaming the "MSM" is wrong. You nailed it with "most people", be they watching CNN, Fox or Trump's former Twitter feed. People need to be held accountable for their actions as individuals instead of blaming others like the "MSM".

As you and I are discussing they need to educate themselves enough to understand what is fact and what is opinion.

That said, I think it would be best for our nation if kids were taught how to think in schools instead of what to think.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

That said, I think it would be best for our nation if kids were taught how to think in schools instead of what to think.

Well, you can take it to the bank that anything in education today with the word "critical" in front of it is designed to do the exact opposite of teaching children to think for themselves.

 

[Commander Dutch]

Well, you can take it to the bank that anything in education today with the word "critical" in front of it is designed to do the exact opposite of teaching children to think for themselves.

I'm not quite that cynical yet. Maybe in five years.