At What Point?

[Kamala Trump]

You never read the Bible? Huh. This story is in GENESIS...literally the first book. If you couldn't make it through the first book of the Bible then I think we can safely ignore any of your commentary.

why do you hate Jews?

 

[Kafka]

why do you hate Jews?

What is your problem? You seem really twisted on here...are you OK? Meds running low? Get help.

 

[Cypress]

Atheists do not really care what you Christians believe.

It's funny that I have been called both a Christian and a Christian-hater on the same thread.

Obviously atheists care. My estimate is that most threads about Christianity are authored by atheists, and most of those end up being about the the Old Testament - which is first and foremost Jewish scripture - rather than the New Testament, which is the heart and soul of Christian theology and belief.

 

[Cypress]

This agnostic/atheist doesn’t insist they be held to any literal interpretation. Unless, of course, they wish to do so on issues such as creation, the Ark, the resurrection and other Jesus miracles. Then, this agnostic/atheist will hold them accountable for all text instead of letting them cherry pick.

A thinking person would ask why would he tell them to not be polytheist if they weren’t already. But, “thinking person” excludes you.

I guess you think Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Kamala Harris Jimmy Carter are non-thinking people with low IQs, because they are practicing christians.

My Mother, brother, step mother, aunt, cousin are all practicing Christians, and they all have graduate degrees from reputable American and Canadian universities

I think the people that built the Ark Encounter and the Creation Science museum are idiots and deserve all the grief that can be heaped on them.

The fundamentalists on this board deserve to receive unrelenting grief, but they don't represent all two billion Christians on the planet

 

[Cypress]

I disagree. Unless the religion is set up to NOT make any sense it shouldn't matter who is discussing it. I have never been one of those who thinks you have to BELIEVE first before you can "understand" the Bible. (Also, I spent >30 years as a believing Christian, so I get a pass).



That's the key. It is so manifestly made up by humans (even down to the glaring mismatches, errors, and wildly inexplicable stuff) which is PRECISELY the point.

It is through the magic of exegesis that the true believers are able to square the circle.




And I have no problem with the Catholic approach to treating the Bible in many ways as metaphorical or allegorical while still maintaining some theological "truth". But, again, the problems most societies have with religion is when the fundamentalists try to drag everyone back to the stone age. That's how you get Afghanistan.

But the non-fundamentalists also give cover to the fundamentalists. Theirs is a belief that is a "degree" of the same belief the fundamentalists have. For them God exists as well, he's just not as advertised in the holy writ. For the Fundamentalists he is exactly as advertised. So the non-fundamentalists really can't tell the fundamentalists they are "wrong", just that they have a different view of the same thing they believe.



Only those sects which insist on doing so and dragging education back to the stone age. I'm A-OK with fundamentalists having their meetings and worshiping as they wish. But they need to remember: not everyone else has to believe the same way.

Again, looking at Afghanistan as a real-world laboratory for this kind of thinking. And realizing it could very well become our daily lives if we lose attention. Sure, it is far less likely, but not impossible.




I don't know about that. You seem to have a really bad experience with atheists and you always characterize them in the most negative light. So I can't speak to your experience, but it sounds bad. I am sorry you have met only bad atheists in your world.

Fundamentalists who insist on taking the bible strictly literally, and accept it as an inerrant source of history tend to be morons.

I've only personally known one person like that in my life. I usually only see those types on message boards or on the news.

 

[Kafka]

Fundamentalists who insist on taking the bible strictly literally, and accept it as an inerrant source of history tend to be morons.

Sadly here in the US back in the 80's and 90's they got enough oomph behind them to attempt to alter educational processes. And they are largely behind the recent elimination of women's autonomy here in the US as well. I'd say they are more than just a "corner case" here in the US.

I've only personally known one person like that in my life. I usually only see those types on message boards or on the news.

You are lucky then.

 

[Kafka]

I think the people that built the Ark Encounter and the Creation Science museum are idiots and deserve all the grief that can be heaped on them.

And Ken Hamm actually got $$$ concessions from the state of Kentucky. So it's more than just their moronic behavior...it impacts real people and diverts real tax money to this stuff.

The fundamentalists on this board deserve to receive unrelenting grief, but they don't represent all two billion Christians on the planet

Correct. They don't represent even a large portion. But they have an outsized voice in governance.

 

[Cypress]

The fundamentalist is YOU, Sybil. It is YOU trying to prove your religion.
MAGA is not Christianity. Non-sequitur fallacy.

What's my religion?

You and Trump are just bad ambassadors for Christianity.

 

[Kafka]

Obviously atheists care. My estimate is that most threads about Christianity are authored by atheists, and most of those end up being about the the Old Testament - which is first and foremost Jewish scripture - rather than the New Testament, which is the heart and soul of Christian theology and belief.

I find it fascinating that you wish to distance the NT from the OT. But that was settled when the Marcion Heresy was put down loooooong ago. The OT IS part of the BIble. It is where God is introduced and explained.

Rational people might wish to distance the NT from the OT but that isn't allowed per the faith itself. Yes, the OT has a lot of "outdated" laws and rules which, through the magic of exegesis, are somehow not in effect anymore for people who aren't Jews. But, again, one is not allowed to dissociate one from the other.

If the faith DID pare out the OT in favor for the NT it might be a very different conversation we have. A lot of people still carry a lot of hatred for homosexuality which they can "justify" by the OT. But those same people will still eat shellfish and wear mixed fiber clothing.

 

[Hume]

It's funny that I have been called both a Christian and a Christian-hater on the same thread.

Obviously atheists care. My estimate is that most threads about Christianity are authored by atheists, and most of those end up being about the the Old Testament - which is first and foremost Jewish scripture - rather than the New Testament, which is the heart and soul of Christian theology and belief.

I do not care what others call you.

 

[Cypress]

What's with your piss and vinegar over the religious all the time? Not saying they don't dish it out but why play their game? Why are you so hellbent on showing off your anti-religiousness to a forum of maybe 50 regulars?

It's good message board entertainment to ridicule the stories in the bible. I've done it myself.

People in the ancient Near East didn't really know how to write history or biography, which were literary genres invented by the Greeks and Romans.

So what we're dealing with are stories written in the language of ancient people to illustrate and explain the human condition and the nature of the world.

The laser focus on the bible is also a bias that comes from the fact most of us grew up in a Protestant majority country. Protestants doctrinally believe that the bible is the only authority in Christianity, and the only thing that matters in Christian belief and practice

 

[Hume]

It's funny that I have been called both a Christian and a Christian-hater on the same thread.

Obviously atheists care. My estimate is that most threads about Christianity are authored by atheists, and most of those end up being about the the Old Testament - which is first and foremost Jewish scripture - rather than the New Testament, which is the heart and soul of Christian theology and belief.

Most posts are by Christians and people like you who pretend to not be religious.

 

[Kamala Trump]

What is your problem? You seem really twisted on here...are you OK? Meds running low? Get help.

I'm just saying...

Saying a specific Jew or Jews did anything wrong anywhere anytime is saying every Jew is always wrong everywhere all the time and that you want them all dead.

that shows your hate that you think that and you need to reprogrammed without a trial.

 

[Kamala Trump]

This agnostic/atheist doesn’t insist they be held to any literal interpretation. Unless, of course, they wish to do so on issues such as creation, the Ark, the resurrection and other Jesus miracles. Then, this agnostic/atheist will hold them accountable for all text instead of letting them cherry pick.

A thinking person would ask why would he tell them to not be polytheist if they weren’t already. But, “thinking person” excludes you.

Cypress thinks only christianity is fake.

 

[Cypress]

I find it fascinating that you wish to distance the NT from the OT. But that was settled when the Marcion Heresy was put down loooooong ago. The OT IS part of the BIble. It is where God is introduced and explained.

Rational people might wish to distance the NT from the OT but that isn't allowed per the faith itself. Yes, the OT has a lot of "outdated" laws and rules which, through the magic of exegesis, are somehow not in effect anymore for people who aren't Jews. But, again, one is not allowed to dissociate one from the other.

If the faith DID pare out the OT in favor for the NT it might be a very different conversation we have. A lot of people still carry a lot of hatred for homosexuality which they can "justify" by the OT. But those same people will still eat shellfish and wear mixed fiber clothing.

I understand it's very important to you to believe the OT is fundamentally important to Christian practice, theology, eschatology. The OT is a source of constant ridicule on atheist websites.

The OT is primarily included in the Christian bible for reference and prophecy, and the early Christians were keen to establish their bona fides as an ancient religion, because Roman authorities tended to be suspicious of new religious cults.

The fact is, almost all christian theology, practice, belief, ethics, eschatology are based on the New Testament, and as viewed and evolved through a lens of Platonic and Aristotelian Greek philosophy. That's why Augustine and Aquinas are just a important to the Christian tradition as Peter, Mathew, and Luke.

 

[Kamala Trump]

I disagree. Unless the religion is set up to NOT make any sense it shouldn't matter who is discussing it. I have never been one of those who thinks you have to BELIEVE first before you can "understand" the Bible. (Also, I spent >30 years as a believing Christian, so I get a pass).



That's the key. It is so manifestly made up by humans (even down to the glaring mismatches, errors, and wildly inexplicable stuff) which is PRECISELY the point.

It is through the magic of exegesis that the true believers are able to square the circle.




And I have no problem with the Catholic approach to treating the Bible in many ways as metaphorical or allegorical while still maintaining some theological "truth". But, again, the problems most societies have with religion is when the fundamentalists try to drag everyone back to the stone age. That's how you get Afghanistan.

But the non-fundamentalists also give cover to the fundamentalists. Theirs is a belief that is a "degree" of the same belief the fundamentalists have. For them God exists as well, he's just not as advertised in the holy writ. For the Fundamentalists he is exactly as advertised. So the non-fundamentalists really can't tell the fundamentalists they are "wrong", just that they have a different view of the same thing they believe.



Only those sects which insist on doing so and dragging education back to the stone age. I'm A-OK with fundamentalists having their meetings and worshiping as they wish. But they need to remember: not everyone else has to believe the same way.

Again, looking at Afghanistan as a real-world laboratory for this kind of thinking. And realizing it could very well become our daily lives if we lose attention. Sure, it is far less likely, but not impossible.




I don't know about that. You seem to have a really bad experience with atheists and you always characterize them in the most negative light. So I can't speak to your experience, but it sounds bad. I am sorry you have met only bad atheists in your world.

there's a difference between discussing it and being obviously biased and wrong, but still insistent and wanting to even further factionalized the faith by holding up the worst example, the catholic church, as some preferred model......

he's a fucking transparent anti-christian noahide shill.

 

[Kamala Trump]

I understand it's very important to you to believe the OT is fundamentally important to Christian practice, theology, eschatology. The OT is a source of constant ridicule on atheist websites.

The OT is primarily included in the Christian bible for reference and prophecy, and the early Christians were keen to establish their bona fides as an ancient religion, because Roman authorities tended to be suspicious of new religious cults.

The fact is, almost all christian theology, practice, belief, ethics, eschatology are based on the New Testament, and as viewed and evolved through a lens of Platonic and Aristotelian Greek philosophy. That's why Augustine and Aquinas are just a important to the Christian tradition as Peter, Mathew, and Luke.

you're correct until the very last sentence....

"That's why Augustine and Aquinas are just a important to the Christian tradition as Peter, Mathew, and Luke. "

this is utter bollocks that you just inserted to try to elevate the self appointed Roman imperial cult that hijacked christianity.

you're a trash thinker.

 

[Cypress]

you're correct until the very last sentence....

"That's why Augustine and Aquinas are just a important to the Christian tradition as Peter, Mathew, and Luke. "

this is utter bollocks that you just inserted to try to elevate the self appointed Roman imperial cult that hijacked christianity.

you're a trash thinker.

The fact that you believe in an immaterial immortal soul, and that heaven is a transcendent place not of this world is straight from Augustine (via Plato), not from Mark, Luke, or Matthew.

So even though you didn't know it, some of the things you believe about theology and eschatology are from Augustine

 

[Kamala Trump]

The fact that you believe in an immaterial immortal soul, and that heaven is a transcendent place not of this world is straight from Augustine (via Plato), not from Mark, Luke, or Matthew.

So even though you didn't know it, some of the things you believe about theology and eschatology are from Augustine

I don't focus so much on heaven being a place.

here you are telling me what's imporant in my interpretation of my own relgion.

but you are referencing the made up shit inserted by the pontifex Rome cult.

that's nonbibilical, like you said.

oh but you think biblical is bad.

but here's the hidden secret, fuck you and your catholic hijack.

 

[Cypress]

I don't focus so much on heaven being a place.

here you are telling me what's imporant in my interpretation of my own relgion.

but you are referencing the made up shit inserted by the pontifex Rome cult.

that's nonbibilical, like you said.

oh but you think biblical is bad.

but here's the hidden secret, fuck you and your catholic hijack.

Even Protestant theologians recognize the landmark influence of Augustine.

Outside of Paul, Augustine is arguably the most important Christian in the evolution of Christian theology and belief.

And he's not even in the bible.

The fact you were not aware of this very fundamental piece of Christian history and theology suggests you don't even understand your own religion, and should self dismiss yourself from participating in threads about Christianity.