Atheists more Intelligent

ThatOwlWoman said:
One of my brothers-in-law has a masters in history. He is also an evangelical Trump supporter. Like you I've never had the desire to ask him if he's a young-earther or not but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that about him. I do know that neither he nor his wife, Mr. Owl's sister who has a BA in communications, accept evolution as truth. They have one boy who is 13 now; he has attended only carefully-selected Xtian schools so that he won't be exposed to such false beliefs.

They're definitely not stupid in the least. But they are willfully blind.
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As much as I like history, it's not a "hard science" like math, physics and chemistry. Some parts of it are, indeed, scientific like unearthing an ancient city or translating an ancient manuscript. Still, more of an art than science. Psychology is the same way with Behaviorism being the scientific side and Freudian and Humanism being the fuzzier side.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Ergo the results of the study are not contradicted. The scientific mind can separate fact from fiction. Faith, in itself, it not a matter of the physical. Believing Adam and Eve popped into existence white, blond and blue-eyed speaking English with a copy of the Bible in hand would be ludicrous to propose. Believing there is a grand power behind creation is about faith, not dogma. Not "religiosity".
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One of the smartest men to ever live, the preeminent German philosopher, Immanuel Kant was a man of the Enlightenment, a proponent of reason as the path to knowedge. At the same time, he was explicitly clear that reason has severe limitations, that there are realms of knowledge outside the reach of reason, and that what truly makes us human is to ask questions about the meaning of life
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I would further state that a belief in deity/deities, an immortal soul, and some sort of afterlife are based less on reason and more on emotion. Who wants this to be all that there is? Who wants to be separated from their loved ones by the grave? These thoughts can be unbearable to most human beings. Therefore <poof!> there is something of us that lives on! A Heaven, a Valhalla, a reincarnation, the villages of the deceased people represented by the campfires in the night sky. Any being emotional enough to become attached to another being is likely to have invented some way that they can be forever together, even after the death of the meat space body. Did you know that elephants and crows, among others, place twigs and leaves and even flowers on their fallen companions? Who can say whether they have a cosmology among their people that rivals that of us human's?
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For those who live in an "either or" universe, that would be correct. My universe has a third aspect of human beings: faith, an aspect of all things that is neither physical or mental and of unknown limits. It's like dark matter and dark energy. Neither have been proved to exist yet the results of their existence are documented.

It's akin to a Neanderthal finding the footprint of a very large catlike animal. He touches it to make sure he's not dreaming. It has no smell and he doesn't know of any catlike animals larger than his forearm. Does he accept he doesn't know everything and move forward with the possibility it's real or does he say "There's no prove of something that large, ignore it until proof is found"?

There are numerous psych studies about faith, partly because it's something that exists, can't be stamped out on pain of death by dictators like Stalin and Mao and continues to thrive among the vast majority of human beings in one form or another. Yes, including Atheism.
 
Cypress said:
One of the smartest men to ever live, the preeminent German philosopher, Immanuel Kant was a man of the Enlightenment, a proponent of reason as the path to knowedge. At the same time, he was explicitly clear that reason has severe limitations, that there are realms of knowledge outside the reach of reason, and that what truly makes us human is to ask questions about the meaning of life
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Kant was certainly smart and ahead of the curve. His ideas on the limits of human reasoning are part of the ideas about the human trinity: the physical, the mental and the spiritual.

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Cypress said:
The Old Testament was written by men in a language that humans five thousand years ago could understand.

To people of the iron age, a whale was a great fish. We did not even have the Linnaeus classification of animals into mammals, fish, reptiles until the 17th century.

Because the bible was written by men in an archaic language that people of the iron age could understand, it was never going to use modern mammalian names and classifications, nor is it going to speak about the particle physics and quantum dynamics which modern science understands were involved in the creation of the universe.
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Book of Dutch, Ch 1, v42: 1. To argue with a troll is unreasonable since they have deliberately chosen a path away from reason. It maketh the arguer equally unreasonable to argue with an unreasonable person. 2. Never feedeth the Troll.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I would further state that a belief in deity/deities, an immortal soul, and some sort of afterlife are based less on reason and more on emotion. Who wants this to be all that there is? Who wants to be separated from their loved ones by the grave? These thoughts can be unbearable to most human beings. Therefore <poof!> there is something of us that lives on! A Heaven, a Valhalla, a reincarnation, the villages of the deceased people represented by the campfires in the night sky. Any being emotional enough to become attached to another being is likely to have invented some way that they can be forever together, even after the death of the meat space body. Did you know that elephants and crows, among others, place twigs and leaves and even flowers on their fallen companions? Who can say whether they have a cosmology among their people that rivals that of us human's?
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Did not know that about crows, pretty bloody interesting. Corvids are my current favorite avian genus!

It is a debate about the human condition which has been going on since Plato and will always be with us.

The intellectuals of the Enlightenment elevated reason, science, and technological advancements as the pinnacle of the human condition.

The intellectuals of Romanticism in their reaction against the Enlightenment wanted to place imagination, creativity, emotion on at least an equal footing with cold, calculated logic.

Reason and logic by themselves are obviously insufficient for a meaningful human life, and the belief in a transcendent reality, or a belief in knowedge which cannot be acquired by reason, will always be an important part of the human condition.
 
katzgar said:
As usual you managed to get it wrong That's your one skill in life is getting stuff wrong. Atheism is merely a disbelief in God. Whether or not there's a possibility of a god doesn't even enter into the concept You're making crap up.
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Exactly. A religious belief there is no god. You take it on faith, just like a theist, that what you believe is true. You have no proof there is on god anymore than a theist can prove there is a God. If on the other hand, you don't care if there is a god or not then you are a Secularist not an Atheist.
 
Cypress said:
The Old Testament was written by men in a language that humans five thousand years ago could understand.

To people of the iron age, a whale was a great fish. We did not even have the Linnaeus classification of animals into mammals, fish, reptiles until the 17th century.

Because the bible was written by men in an archaic language that people of the iron age could understand, it was never going to use modern mammalian names and classifications, nor is it going to speak about the particle physics and quantum dynamics which modern science understands were involved in the creation of the universe.
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Tell me where and how it all started genius!
 
Cypress said:
One of the smartest men to ever live, the preeminent German philosopher, Immanuel Kant was a man of the Enlightenment, a proponent of reason as the path to knowedge. At the same time, he was explicitly clear that reason has severe limitations, that there are realms of knowledge outside the reach of reason, and that what truly makes us human is to ask questions about the meaning of life
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Kant said questions about the meaning of life are meaningless.
 
jacksonsprat22 said:
Kant said questions about the meaning of life are meaningless.
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Wrong. You barely knew who Kant was three microseconds before you read my post, and frantically Googling for random Intel about Kant does not cut the mustard.

I just finished a video class on Kant, and Kant finally formulates the three most fundamental questions that we all should ask:
1. What can I know?
2. Given the limits of my reason, what ought I do?
3. For what can I hope?
 
Cypress said:
Wrong. You barely knew who Kant was three microseconds before you read my post, and frantically Googling for random Intel about Kant does not cut the mustard.

I just finished a video class on Kant, and Kant finally formulates the three most fundamental questions that we all should ask:
1. What can I know?
2. Given the limits of my reason, what ought I do?
3. For what can I hope?
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You're an asshole.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
For those who live in an "either or" universe, that would be correct. My universe has a third aspect of human beings: faith, an aspect of all things that is neither physical or mental and of unknown limits. It's like dark matter and dark energy. Neither have been proved to exist yet the results of their existence are documented.

It's akin to a Neanderthal finding the footprint of a very large catlike animal. He touches it to make sure he's not dreaming. It has no smell and he doesn't know of any catlike animals larger than his forearm. Does he accept he doesn't know everything and move forward with the possibility it's real or does he say "There's no prove of something that large, ignore it until proof is found"?

There are numerous psych studies about faith, partly because it's something that exists, can't be stamped out on pain of death by dictators like Stalin and Mao and continues to thrive among the vast majority of human beings in one form or another. Yes, including Atheism.
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Again though, atheism is not a belief system or a faith. It's the absence of those things.

I don't know whether or not there is a creator that put this existence into existence. I think this most nearly describes my personal beliefs: "It's like dark matter and dark energy. Neither have been proved to exist yet the results of their existence are documented." I believe -- not KNOW but believe -- that there is more to just our meat space physical existence. Something spiritual transcends and survives the death of the physical corpus, I believe. Do we meet again on "the other side"? If so do we recognize each other? I do not know. I can only go by my own personal experiences with these matters. I also believe that if my beliefs are true, they are true for all living beings, not just homo sapiens and our forebears.
 
Jackson, I have a preeminent German philosopher who might appeal to cynical athesists even more than Nietsche.

Schopenhauer was the ultimate cynic and pessimist who felt there was no meaning to life, and the remedy was to adopt a disengaged attitude and indulge in the aesthetic enjoyment of life.
 
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domer76 said:
:lolup:

Crickets
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Exactly what Christ did. He knew the Pharisees were coming at him, trying to just stir up strife with gotcha questions........Jesus simply walked away.
He told believers to not engage "in endless arguments" with those who really aren't asking sincere questions regarding faith and salvation. They're only
posturing and scheming for their own selfish and prideful agendas.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
You're hilarious, Stench. As is true of most of your ilk, you think you're the only one(s) who have ever studied other religious traditions. You believe your god is the only one true god. You insist that you alone have the only path to the divine.

You're in for quite a surprise by and by. :laugh:

wj3hZ1c.jpg
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And, just where is "your friend?" Scheming and deception will get you nowhere. You've just shown your hand. Very foolish.
 
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