Attempt to rekindle Domestic Oil Drilling...

[Damocles]

Well since I don't live in denver. and do not even have domestic natural gas available here even though 3 36" , 2 20" and several more natural gas lines run less than 5 miles from my home....

Yeah, and you could still use oil sourcing for your vehicle, right? Or are you saying those sources will disappear and no longer be available to you?

What are you saying? That if something isn't available directly to you at your house it can't be part of the solution in toto? Weak, uscit. Very, very weak.

And you can again pretend that the future isn't coming and that it will all remain as it is now, fixed in time. No solution can possibly be offered because UScit can't find a natural gas source. Just one year ago there were no E85 gas stations... It seems we can actually find a way to deliver things that weren't there before.

 

[uscitizen]

Yeah, and you could still use oil sourcing for your vehicle, right? Or are you saying those sources will disappear and no longer be available to you?

What are you saying? That if something isn't available directly to you at your house it can't be part of the solution in toto? Weak, uscit. Very, very weak.

HUH ?

Please do not speak in dixiese.

what I am saying is that it is a tradeoff, as more vehicles used natural gas it would cost more for people to heat their homes. either directly with natural gas or indirectly with electricity generated from natural gas. And Damo most people use more energy in their homes than in their vehicles.

 

[Damocles]

HUH ?

Please do not speak in dixiese.

what I am saying is that it is a tradeoff, as more vehicles used natural gas it would cost more for people to heat their homes. either directly with natural gas or indirectly with electricity generated from natural gas. And Damo most people use more energy in their homes than in their vehicles.

Making natural gas run vehicles available to others would not make it so your car couldn't get gasoline. Even if nobody nearby you decided to deliver natural gas for vehicles when they became more available than they already are, you could still run your car on gasoline while others used those vehicles to lessen our demand. It could still be part of the overall solution even if you can't get it.

Shall I say it in some other way again?

More people in Denver than those in Uscit's neighborhood, higher supply of such vehicles and sources for fueling = less demand for foreign oil even while uscit's life doesn't change at all.

 

[uscitizen]

Making natural gas run vehicles available to others would not make it so your car couldn't get gasoline. Even if nobody nearby you decided to deliver natural gas for vehicles when they became more available than they already are, you could still run your car on gasoline while others used those vehicles to lessen our demand. It could still be part of the overall solution even if you can't get it.

Shall I say it in some other way again?

More people in Denver than those in Uscit's neighborhood, higher supply of such vehicles and sources for fueling = less demand for foreign oil even while uscit's life doesn't change at all.

Damn dixiese. I never said running cars on natural gas would make it so I could not get gasoline.

What is wrong with you today ?

 

[Damocles]

Damn dixiese. I never said running cars on natural gas would make it so I could not get gasoline.

What is wrong with you today ?

No, you used the excuse that you couldn't get it nearby you so therefore we couldn't do it. That is a weak excuse indeed.

You are so desperately scrambling for reasons that we cannot supply any more energy than we already do, that you are willing to grab at even this sad one that is clearly inept.

And pretending you can't understand a simple concept like less cars using oil = less need for oil is just deliberately obtuse.

 

[Topspin]

Oil companies own the natural gas so would thus be 100x more likely to want to add that pump vs an ethonal pump.

 

[Care4all]

I'm betting any material increase in Natural Gas for auto's is increasing the shit out of the price. Period

you bet your bottom dollar it will....though we got a ton of it, we do not have the refineries to take the methane(natural gas) out of it and separate the butane and propane etc.....

In addition to this, WHO OWNS THE MOST NATURAL GAS?

The middle east, Saudi Arabia being numero uno and then there is Russia....

I don't want us to make the SAME mistakes we made when we chose to go in to oil as our fossil fuel of choice....

Though there are many positives with Natural Gas not being as dirty as the other 2 fossil fuels of Coal and Oil, it still is a fossil fuel where most of the reserves of it, lies overseas, which means that we will once again be dependent on the Middle east or take chances on another cold war with Russia or war with both of them....maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow, but more than likely in our own grandchildren's lifetime.....

You would THINK that we would learn from our mistakes and not invest as heavily in to Natural Gas, another fossil fuel, and invest in renewable energies that would ALWAYS allow us to be energy independent and secure.

on another note, I read that they are in the process of forming another conglomerate like OPEC only for the Natural Gas industry....

JUST WONDERFUL....just what we need, another OPEC type ruling faction that controls us all....

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

super,

there have been SEVERAL MEGA oil finds through out the world that have shocked the oil industry with their estimated quantities....labling some the biggest oil find in the last hundred years....a couple just recently....mexico, and brazil both had some huge finds....with BIG oil companies scrambling to get their stakes in them.....

the price of oil, EVEN WITH THIS NEWS, continued to sore up in price!

Why do you keep saying it would bring down the price of oil when on the foot of every one of these huge world wide oil MEGA FINDS, the price of oil continued to rise?

I think you said once before when i asked this that it had to do with future demand that is expected to rise rapidly from all the people in China and India buying cars?
-------------------------------
We had a HUGE, MEGA deep water oil find in the gulf, of lite sweet crude, and Shell I believe signed a lease with us for this offshore area back in 1998....it is a difficult drill to extract the oil and alot is involved which i do understand, but not a drop of this oil has yet to be retrieved and it is 10 years later....?

$40 dollars a barrel is what they estimated they would need for the world oil price, to be profitable extracting this oil....

All I am saying is that this will not affect our gasoline prices of today....

releasing some of the reserves, about 10% of them would affect prices today...after all...they are OUR RESERVES, we paid for them and we will be able to rebuy them at a cheaper price...

EVERY SINGLE TIME we have released our oil reserves we HAVE GOTTEN temporary relief...all the farmer's associations, and truck drivers, and the airplane industry ALL SUPPORT the immediate relief releasing a small percentage of our reserves will give us...

I am not even against opening up some additional moratorium areas if vetted thoroughly...ALL the pros need to be weighted against ALL the cons...if pros come out ahead, by all means, go for it!
-----------------------------------------

going back to shale....sounds terribly complicated, takes alot of electricity to run the heaters for 3 straight years before they can get one drop of oil out of it....

they would need to set up their own nuke or natural gas electric plants to keep it clean and would have to be certain they did not allow any ground drinking water which is in very little supply in our country, to not get contaminated.....Shale, in any quantities will take 20 years MINIMUM to make any kind of impact on oil supply....


care

yes, like the Brazil find, there have been several big finds in recent years. The problem with them is that they have been more than offset by the declining dollar. A US find, unlike other countries, would strengthen the dollar at the same time as increasing supply.

Shells site that you mention.... deep water sites are estimated to need $40-60 oil prices to make them economically viable. Sites take about 5 years to bring on line (longer if you include the survey times, but in this case that is already done. Oil prices have only been above that price range for a few years. I would have to research to see how far along they are with that site.

As for the short term effect.... look what simple statements from politicians have done recently to oil... demand hasn't dropped worldwide, the dollar hasn't added strength enough to justify the move, yet we have pulled back from $148 to the current $125 range. What caused this? Two things... less saber rattling between the US and Iran and an ever increasing voice of the public and politicians to drill more domestically.

Enacting policy that shows a determination to produce more domestically will indeed drive the bull speculators to take profit and most likely turn bearish on prices.

Releasing oil from the strategic reserve in this environment is the single dumbest thing we could do. It does not drop gas prices UNLESS you have excess refining capacity to produce more gasoline. It is short term stop gap (at best) and does little to effect long term prices. It is a political ploy and little else. The lower our reserves, the greater risk we put on the country should something blow up again in the ME. Which given Bush's track record could easily happen.

 

[uscitizen]

Oil companies own the natural gas so would thus be 100x more likely to want to add that pump vs an ethonal pump.

yep.

btw the giant natural gas compressor station down the road just got done venting off natural gas from at least one 36" line. sounded like a jet parked outside for a couple of hours.

btw damo are you speaking of natural gas or LNG ?

 

[Topspin]

care4 college is a bad thing to pass on.
We didn't make a bad choice on fossil fuel, we'd be not much more than a thrid world coutry having never had it.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yeah, and you could still use oil sourcing for your vehicle, right? Or are you saying those sources will disappear and no longer be available to you?

What are you saying? That if something isn't available directly to you at your house it can't be part of the solution in toto? Weak, uscit. Very, very weak.

And you can again pretend that the future isn't coming and that it will all remain as it is now, fixed in time. No solution can possibly be offered because UScit can't find a natural gas source. Just one year ago there were no E85 gas stations... It seems we can actually find a way to deliver things that weren't there before.

http://www.cngprices.com/

Will show anyone who wants the number of nat gas refill stations that are available in their area.

 

[Damocles]

Oil companies own the natural gas so would thus be 100x more likely to want to add that pump vs an ethonal pump.

Yup.

 

[Damocles]

yep.

btw the giant natural gas compressor station down the road just got done venting off natural gas from at least one 36" line. sounded like a jet parked outside for a couple of hours.

btw damo are you speaking of natural gas or LNG ?

CNG. Use the site SF posted, it will show you if it is available. And as toppy stated, gas companies would prefer this to ethanol as it is something they deliver.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

you bet your bottom dollar it will....though we got a ton of it, we do not have the refineries to take the methane(natural gas) out of it and separate the butane and propane etc.....

In addition to this, WHO OWNS THE MOST NATURAL GAS?

The middle east, Saudi Arabia being numero uno and then there is Russia....

I don't want us to make the SAME mistakes we made when we chose to go in to oil as our fossil fuel of choice....

Though there are many positives with Natural Gas not being as dirty as the other 2 fossil fuels of Coal and Oil, it still is a fossil fuel where most of the reserves of it, lies overseas, which means that we will once again be dependent on the Middle east or take chances on another cold war with Russia or war with both of them....maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow, but more than likely in our own grandchildren's lifetime.....

You would THINK that we would learn from our mistakes and not invest as heavily in to Natural Gas, another fossil fuel, and invest in renewable energies that would ALWAYS allow us to be energy independent and secure.

on another note, I read that they are in the process of forming another conglomerate like OPEC only for the Natural Gas industry....

JUST WONDERFUL....just what we need, another OPEC type ruling faction that controls us all....

We have nat gas reserves in the US that rival anyones. Unlike them however, we don't tap them. Our current supply would last us over a century. But again, too many people cry out "it will take too long to bring to market" or "we don't have the refining capacity"... and use them as excuses for why we shouldn't tap our own resources.

Yes, they will take 5-10 years to bring on line... just as they would have ten years ago. But guess what... there is NO alt energy source that can be brought on line with infrastructure built out for use that is any faster than that. Whether we are talking solar or wind or nuclear or geothermal... all of them will take at least 5-10 years to make a significant impact on our energy use. Should we just eliminate anything that doesn't help in the short term?

We need to invest in EVERY source. Wind, Solar, nat gas, oil, nuclear, geothermal, etc......

 

[Care4all]

Yes, hence my point that technology will be created to minimize that risk. Testing will be done, something will be found to solve your fear.

My point is standing and doing nothing while we fund both sides of a war and do nothing to solve the very real problem of foreign sourcing is even worse. We need to bridge the time between now and the next gen energy sourcing and continuing in the status quo is not just undesirable, it is unforgiveable. It should be a lunar-landing style national project.

I don't think the oil companies are holding back on testing ANY TECHNOLOGY because of some citizens with concerns....they have plenty of other countries around the world that they have leases with where they could perfect it, without one itty bitty concern for the usa greenies and I believe they are doing such already, we have NOT stopped them in any fashion from doing this "testing"...

No one is doing "nothing" Damo, or no one is preventing the oil companies from doing anything...technology as you even said, advances daily imo....and it IS FEAR MONGERING on your behalf to suggest such, imho!

There is plenty of land and sea out there that has promissing oil quantities that have not been tapped without the moratorium areas for them to perfect their technology too....

but i ask again, why would they spend their money going all head forward doing this when it is more profitable to pump the oil out of the sand in Iraq for the next 30 years...this is a money game isn't it? True capitalism at its best? Profits come first?

and also:
Why would they build refineries when it is more profitable NOT to build them and keep supplies down?

 

[Damocles]

We have nat gas reserves in the US that rival anyones. Unlike them however, we don't tap them. Our current supply would last us over a century. But again, too many people cry out "it will take too long to bring to market" or "we don't have the refining capacity"... and use them as excuses for why we shouldn't tap our own resources.

Yes, they will take 5-10 years to bring on line... just as they would have ten years ago. But guess what... there is NO alt energy source that can be brought on line with infrastructure built out for use that is any faster than that. Whether we are talking solar or wind or nuclear or geothermal... all of them will take at least 5-10 years to make a significant impact on our energy use. Should we just eliminate anything that doesn't help in the short term?

We need to invest in EVERY source. Wind, Solar, nat gas, oil, nuclear, geothermal, etc......

QFT

 

[Damocles]

I don't think the oil companies are holding back on testing ANY TECHNOLOGY because of some citizens with concerns....they have plenty of other countries around the world that they have leases with where they could perfect it, without one itty bitty concern for the usa greenies and I believe they are doing such already, we have NOT stopped them in any fashion from doing this "testing"...

No one is doing "nothing" Damo, or no one is preventing the oil companies from doing anything...technology as you even said, advances daily imo....and it IS FEAR MONGERING on your behalf to suggest such, imho!

There is plenty of land and sea out there that has promissing oil quantities that have not been tapped without the moratorium areas for them to perfect their technology too....

but i ask again, why would they spend their money going all head forward doing this when it is more profitable to pump the oil out of the sand in Iraq for the next 30 years...this is a money game isn't it? True capitalism at its best? Profits come first?

and also:
Why would they build refineries when it is more profitable NOT to build them and keep supplies down?

Because, again, I think we should have a national goal, like the lunar-landing, that will get us off the foreign teat.

I think the excuses plan that seems to be coming from the Ds isn't tenable and doesn't recognize what we can do and how it would benefit us and our economy as well as position us to continue to be tops in economies for a long time to come.

The "Oh noes! It will cause problems!" cries, while they should be understood and mitigated, are not reasons we should continue to do nothing.

 

[uscitizen]

the question is will big business let us get off the "foreign teat" Damo?

 

[Damocles]

the question is will big business let us get off the "foreign teat" Damo?

Hence the need for the national drive, if it is "unpatriotic" to continue what they are doing they'll adjust so that they can continue to gain our dollar.

 

[Care4all]

We have nat gas reserves in the US that rival anyones. Unlike them however, we don't tap them. Our current supply would last us over a century. But again, too many people cry out "it will take too long to bring to market" or "we don't have the refining capacity"... and use them as excuses for why we shouldn't tap our own resources.

Yes, they will take 5-10 years to bring on line... just as they would have ten years ago. But guess what... there is NO alt energy source that can be brought on line with infrastructure built out for use that is any faster than that. Whether we are talking solar or wind or nuclear or geothermal... all of them will take at least 5-10 years to make a significant impact on our energy use. Should we just eliminate anything that doesn't help in the short term?

We need to invest in EVERY source. Wind, Solar, nat gas, oil, nuclear, geothermal, etc......

we do? we don't come close to the big guns in the middle east that have natural gas or in Russia....NOT EVEN CLOSE....

And in the middle east, they have already extracted the natural gas and have restored it in caverns because there are not enough refineries to process it....it is just sitting there, waiting for a Pickens plan to come in to fruition....

and what about the OPEC of the natural gas industry that is forming, that's all hunky dorey with you too...they will do exactly what has been done with OPEC for goodness sakes!

Please don't be a fool and jump all on board with this program of relying on another fossil fuel controlled by others with the Global price and supply.....

once this technology is developed the whole world jumps on it and the demand 10 folds overnight.....this is the OIL story all over again!

Why would you spend the next 10 years investing in an infrastructure to accomodate this, just like with oil, when we could as easily do this with RENEWABLE USA resourses, if we put our minds to it and ALWAYS BE INDEPENDENT from foreigners, EVEN IN OUR GRANDCHILDREN'S TIME?

Why set the grandkids up for another fossil fuel crisis that we are in now?

please don't allow this irrational exuberance take hold without really thinking it through and analyising the whole situation?

I could be wrong, there could be enough natural gas out there to fuel the world for another 100 years, but if most of it is not in the usa and is in Russia and the middle east *and controlled by a cartel, what good is THAT for America?