We have enough here domestically to power the US for 120 years.
Attempt to rekindle Domestic Oil Drilling...
- Thread starter Damocles
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Topspin
Verified User
I'd rather refine gas from oil I find at a cost of $50 than oil I buy from Hodgie at $125
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The Almighty
Yes Care, we do have the nat gas... we just aren't tapping it. The reserves of Nat gas in ANWR alone would give us our supply for 50 years. The TX find in 2005 would give us another huge chunk. It matters little how much other countries produce if we have enough to fill our own demand with domestic supply.
edit... side note care... I am most certainly not "being a fool" on this. As I stated, we have the capability of producing over 10 years supply of oil and 120 of nat gas. Hence we should try to convert as much as we can from oil to nat gas (predominantly via vehicles). However, AS I HAVE STATED.... we should ALSO invest as much in alt energy and use clean energy like wind and solar to replace as much of the nat gas and coal production of electricity as we can.
We should do BOTH. In time, I do beleive we will be able to vastly reduce our usage of fossil fuels. But we have to work on BOTH.... more domestic fossil fuel production AND more clean/alt energy.
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Topspin
Verified User
Why would you spend the next 10 years investing in an infrastructure to accomodate this, just like with oil, when we could as easily do this with RENEWABLE USA resourses, if we put our minds to it and ALWAYS BE INDEPENDENT from foreigners, EVEN IN OUR GRANDCHILDREN'S TIME?
what use fuel that made us the most prosperous nation on the world. LOL
Alternatives combined couldn't fuel that pissant little state of Maine you live in. Natural gas is very clean, and turbo-libs like you need to learn to love it.
what use fuel that made us the most prosperous nation on the world. LOL
Alternatives combined couldn't fuel that pissant little state of Maine you live in. Natural gas is very clean, and turbo-libs like you need to learn to love it.
We work towards both at the same time. Building the bridge to take us where we need to go.
Excellent. I like investing in the future like that. I'm a long-termer anyway.
even with 10-50 folding our useage with the technology to come? i could be wrong, but i would BET NOT damo!!!!
either way, it is on a global market, and will be controlled by the CARTEL forming for natural gas.....
we don't get to pay, ''an american price'' we pay the GLOBALLY controlled price and are at their mercy....to imply that we won't be subject to this is dishonest imo....
while in massachusetts 2 out of the last three years there, natural gas prices rose 40% each year.....natural gas IS EXPENSIVE right now!!!!
IF WE have tons of it, why is the price so high? if the saudis have caverns filled with it, why did the price for it rise 40% two out of the three years?
the bwhaaaaaaaaaa ''greenies kept me from building refineries'' crowd's faux outrage is ridiculous! why you ask? because there ain't no ''greenies'' in saudi arabia and they have kazillions in natural gas just stored that could be refined and they have not brought refineries on board to do such....
keeping refineries from being built is what the saudi's WANT to keep prices high....this is all gonna be controlled by those who own the most and you know it! we are not one of them! we have alot, but we are not a big gun, compared to the saudis, russia and the ''istans'' tubekistan (sp?), uzbekistan etc....
we have unused military bases that were offered up to both oil and natural gas industry to build refineries and they have not taken us up on it!
at some point, when do we ask why haven't they?
and when do we consider owning a few natural gas and oil refineries ourselves, nationally, for our own security purposes?
what good are our national oil reserves and national natural gas reserves do us as a country if we can't nationally control the refining of it?
i just think that there is much more to this than meets the immediate eye and we need to take a deep breath, not panic, and make a thoroughly vetted game plan on where we should go....keeping our grandchildren in mind, and world influence out of the picture as the key.
our own natural gas, may be a means to ''get there'' and i will not discount this possibilty, would never rule it out!
it's just that....i want us to go in to our ''plan'' with eyes WIDE OPEN!
i don't want another irrational, corn ethanol mistake, just due to expediency or due to them wanting to APPEAR AS THOUGH they in congress are ''doing something''!
that's all.....
You are again focused on price rather than the goal. While price would be important, saying we shouldn't do it because it might cost slightly more is just another excuse to keep the status quo and disregards the increased incentive to supply more.even with 10-50 folding our useage with the technology to come? i could be wrong, but i would BET NOT damo!!!!
either way, it is on a global market, and will be controlled by the CARTEL forming for natural gas.....
we don't get to pay, ''an american price'' we pay the GLOBALLY controlled price and are at their mercy....to imply that we won't be subject to this is dishonest imo....
while in massachusetts 2 out of the last three years there, natural gas prices rose 40% each year.....natural gas IS EXPENSIVE right now!!!!
IF WE have tons of it, why is the price so high? if the saudis have caverns filled with it, why did the price for it rise 40% two out of the three years?
the bwhaaaaaaaaaa ''greenies kept me from building refineries'' crowd's faux outrage is ridiculous! why you ask? because there ain't no ''greenies'' in saudi arabia and they have kazillions in natural gas just stored that could be refined and they have not brought refineries on board to do such....
keeping refineries from being built is what the saudi's WANT to keep prices high....this is all gonna be controlled by those who own the most and you know it! we are not one of them! we have alot, but we are not a big gun, compared to the saudis, russia and the ''istans'' tubekistan (sp?), uzbekistan etc....
we have unused military bases that were offered up to both oil and natural gas industry to build refineries and they have not taken us up on it!
at some point, when do we ask why haven't they?
and when do we consider owning a few natural gas and oil refineries ourselves, nationally, for our own security purposes?
what good are our national oil reserves and national natural gas reserves do us as a country if we can't nationally control the refining of it?
i just think that there is much more to this than meets the immediate eye and we need to take a deep breath, not panic, and make a thoroughly vetted game plan on where we should go....keeping our grandchildren in mind, and world influence out of the picture as the key.
our own natural gas, may be a means to ''get there'' and i will not discount this possibilty, would never rule it out!
it's just that....i want us to go in to our ''plan'' with eyes WIDE OPEN!
i don't want another irrational, corn ethanol mistake, just due to expediency or due to them wanting to APPEAR AS THOUGH they in congress are ''doing something''!
that's all.....
And no, it isn't "wishful thinking" it is what we have in supplies that are untapped in the US at this time and using that figure, again, requires us to assume no advances in extracting technology will ever come.
I do go in wide open and I suspect that this will be a bridge, not the solution. Can you understand that a bridge is only part of the path?
I think excuses that force us to walk around the Nile rather than building a bridge to cross it are weak excuses and are almost always based on fear mongering. "It will cost." Of course it will. That is why we make it a national project, all of us working together to get to the final destination.
Saying "Uzbekistan has natural gas" doesn't change that we have enough domestically to supply ourselves for a very long time indeed. Long enough definitely to be able to bridge the time until we finally discover the next generation of energy sourcing and begin to sell it to the rest of the world.
uscitizen
Villified User
You have more faith in our leaders and the American public than I do. We are on the corporate teat in so many ways. I hope you are right though.
this will be lots more painful to individuals than the space race , a lot harder sell.
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The Almighty
even with 10-50 folding our useage with the technology to come? i could be wrong, but i would BET NOT damo!!!!
"either way, it is on a global market, and will be controlled by the CARTEL forming for natural gas....."
100% incorrect. By producing our own nat gas, we set the price... not some cartel. It would be competition to be sure, but they would not be able to tell us that we have to pay whatever price they deem necessary. Not even OPEC can do that.
"we don't get to pay, ''an american price'' we pay the GLOBALLY controlled price and are at their mercy....to imply that we won't be subject to this is dishonest imo...."
You simply do not appear to be aware of how prices work on commodities then. A cartel cannot control prices if one of the largest consumers of a product produces all of its own demand.... and then some.
"while in massachusetts 2 out of the last three years there, natural gas prices rose 40% each year.....natural gas IS EXPENSIVE right now!!!! "
It is expensive because, ONCE AGAIN, demand is increasing faster than new supply is being brought on line. That and the declining dollar.
"IF WE have tons of it, why is the price so high? if the saudis have caverns filled with it, why did the price for it rise 40% two out of the three years?"
Having tons of it, does not equate to PRODUCING tons of it. We actually have to tap the gas to actually have any effect. Also, as mentioned before, the dollar has declined sharply in value which means ALL commodities that are denominated and traded in dollars are going to increase in price with every decrease in the value of the dollar (all else being equal)
See above
Not during a war. There have been far worse hardships than paying a bit more to run a car during past wartimes. People here have a powerful drive once properly incentivized. Instead of driving toward a positive future the current Administration told us to "go shopping". It is the absolute largest opportunity ever missed. And I believe that we again have a lesser opportunity to do this during a Presidential election. Grab the prize. Seize this opportunity. We can make something incredible happen.
uscitizen
Villified User
can you even name a fuel cheaper than natural GAS care.
I bet when it's minus 10 in Maine you think Natural Gas is real cheap
umm it is cheaper here now to use a high efficiency heat pump for heat vs nat gas.
Big oil charges by the BTU content now so not much difference.
Topspin
Verified User
what fuels the heat pump?
Electricity. It is the same device that cools the house in the summer. The fan draws heat from the ambient air and adds to an already existing system using Propane in his house. Nat Gas isn't available in rural America.
ok super, but oil companies are not selling us oil below the global price right now and are reaping the added profits from not doing such... no?
what in the world makes you believe that these same companies who own natural gas will not play the same capitalistic game as was done with oil ....and go for the gusto on profits for their stockholders with little consideration of our Nation?
btw, to both you and Damo.....i have really enjoyed debating this with you two, and have learned a thing or 2!
this is what i hope Congress would do....
care