Attempt to rekindle Domestic Oil Drilling...

Superfreak said:
The problem care is that you are assuming the "Cartel" will set some arbitrary price. They will not be able to do so. They will have to base it on a supply/demand equation. Despite what many seem to think, oil and nat gas prices are elastic, not inelastic. We are seeing that today with oil prices. As prices have gone up... there is an ever increasing demand for alternatives.

Given that in the scenario where we tap our nat gas resources, the supply will have to be factored in. As will the drop off in demand (if we also convert electric production from nat gas to solar, wind, etc...)
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we have our own natural gas, i have to keep saying this, we have our own natural gas, we have our own natural gas damnit.... hahahahahaha!

we had our own oil at one time too....

And the oil cartel back in the 70's, cut supplies that affected us greatly with the fears of oil running out fast and here we are 30 years later having the same discussions on oil running out, thus the price rising astronomically... :(
 
our own natural gas will not supply all of our energy needs for long. and if the great prices increases are due to supply and demand then we are about maxxed out on supply vs demand now.
 
Superfreak said:
There is a difference care. In one situation we are heavily reliant upon other countries (oil)... under the other we would have enough nat gas to meet our own demands and thus would not be reliant upon them at all.

There are NO "added profits" for the oil companies. Their margins are pretty much where they have always been. They are simply selling MORE oil than before due to higher demand. Not to mention all the stories about "record profits" normally fail to mention the fact of oil company consolidation. All the "record profits" are simply the same percentage on larger firms.

Side note: GE's profit margins are HIGHER than COP, XOM and Shell... yet no one bitches about their profits.... Why is that?
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they are not an every day necessity super....gasoline and oil are necessary to live, to survive and to make a living.....GE is not, neither is Coke....we can choose not to buy them, this is not the case with gasoline or oil up here for heat....there is no natural gas up here where i live....
 
The energy industry will ultimately be regulated by govt if things get too bad.
It will be an issue of national security.
 
Care4all said:
i don't believe you are correct on the profit MARGINS super, they have risen double digits since about 2000.... i am not talking profit dollars, but what percentage they are making in profit of their total sales....they have had record increases in their profit MARGINS, and profit dollars....read this a while back....

in 2000 they were averaging a profit margin of 6%, and today their profit margins are running around 10%....that's about a 65% increase in their profit MARGINS.....(in the shoe industry we planned anywhere between a 4%-6% profit margin)

their profits are not JUST COMING from sales of a higher priced product, but from also increasing the amount of profit they were getting from us, per dollar sold of that product....in fact and as said, they are making 65% more in profit on every dollar of sales today verses every dollar of sales in 2000....

so us consumers took a double hit....one with the prise rise in global oil and oil byproducts, and two-with the increased margin percentage they put on to us....

and hey....maybe 6% isn't good enough even though that really translates in to making about 12- 15 cents on every dollar invest by the company....they decided to TAKE MORE from us, the 10 cents on every retali dollar sold, translating to about 20-27 cents made on every dollar invested....depending on their initial mark up of their products.

i would loveeee to be able to make 12 to 15% interest on my money, let alone to make 20%-27% interest on my every dollar invested....!!!!

i know there are other industries that have even higher profit margins than they do, but they are few and far between or specialties, though other commodities have higher margins too....i realize such and it would probably be negligent of them if they didn't try to get as much in profit margin as they can, for their stock holders....i know that was one of our concerns when working for a Corp in the past....

it just "hurts more" when it is our fuel than when a Reebok does it or even a microsoft or a coke....
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I am 100% certain of the profit margins. 100%. It is easily verifiable.

GE current profit margin is 11.99%
COP is 6.75%
XOM is 10.85%
Shell is 8.35%

None that I am aware of the big oil is above GE. Yet again, no one bitches about GE.

YES, the profit margins are better for the oil companies than they were in the 1990s (or in 2000 specifically)... why? Because oil was held at artificially low levels throughout the decade culminating in $10 oil in 1999. (yet no one bitched about the speculators then... when they were keeping oil below fair value... I wonder why???) Yes, the profit margin has come back up since 1999 (a year they all were LOSING money). But when you look at the long term average, the sector tends to earn a profit margin about 7-10%. Which is similar to most sectors of the S&P 500. (especially the manufacturers)

Your math skills are worse than Bush's. Their profit margin is translated to cents on the dollar. IF their profit margin is 8%, they are earning 8 cents on the dollar. Period. The profit margin is calculated based on ALL revenue streams. Period.

They are NOT earning some magically calculated 25%... but nice try....
 
Care4all said:
they are not an every day necessity super....gasoline and oil are necessary to live, to survive and to make a living.....GE is not, neither is Coke....we can choose not to buy them, this is not the case with gasoline or oil up here for heat....there is no natural gas up here where i live....
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Fine, if you want a company that provides daily necessities... then bitch about General Mills... those evil bastards are earning 9.78% profit margins... right in line with oil (and again... most manufacturing firms long term averages)
 
Care4all said:
we have our own natural gas, i have to keep saying this, we have our own natural gas, we have our own natural gas damnit.... hahahahahaha!

we had our own oil at one time too....

And the oil cartel back in the 70's, cut supplies that affected us greatly with the fears of oil running out fast and here we are 30 years later having the same discussions on oil running out, thus the price rising astronomically... :(
Click to expand...

We do have our own oil... but like nat gas, we refuse to tap it for many of the excuses (I mean reasons) that have been mentioned in this thread. We have an estimated 10 year supply (and that is a conservative estimate... it is largely based on the oil in ANWR and the continental shelf and does not include the shale).

The move by the oil cartel in the 1970s led to the strategic reserves being built. That is why it is not a good idea to tap into the reserve now. It makes us more susceptible to foreign supply shifts.
 
Superfreak said:
I am 100% certain of the profit margins. 100%. It is easily verifiable.

GE current profit margin is 11.99%
COP is 6.75%
XOM is 10.85%
Shell is 8.35%

None that I am aware of the big oil is above GE. Yet again, no one bitches about GE.

YES, the profit margins are better for the oil companies than they were in the 1990s (or in 2000 specifically)... why? Because oil was held at artificially low levels throughout the decade culminating in $10 oil in 1999. (yet no one bitched about the speculators then... when they were keeping oil below fair value... I wonder why???) Yes, the profit margin has come back up since 1999 (a year they all were LOSING money). But when you look at the long term average, the sector tends to earn a profit margin about 7-10%. Which is similar to most sectors of the S&P 500. (especially the manufacturers)

Your math skills are worse than Bush's. Their profit margin is translated to cents on the dollar. IF their profit margin is 8%, they are earning 8 cents on the dollar. Period. The profit margin is calculated based on ALL revenue streams. Period.

They are NOT earning some magically calculated 25%... but nice try....
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Excellent point, and complete pwnage!
 
Care4all said:
we have our own natural gas, i have to keep saying this, we have our own natural gas, we have our own natural gas damnit.... hahahahahaha!

we had our own oil at one time too....

And the oil cartel back in the 70's, cut supplies that affected us greatly with the fears of oil running out fast and here we are 30 years later having the same discussions on oil running out, thus the price rising astronomically... :(
Click to expand...

Oh but wise dropout one, back then we imported 25% not 70%
how much healthier would our economy be with 50% less imports?
 
Superfreak said:
I am 100% certain of the profit margins. 100%. It is easily verifiable.

GE current profit margin is 11.99%
COP is 6.75%
XOM is 10.85%
Shell is 8.35%

None that I am aware of the big oil is above GE. Yet again, no one bitches about GE.

YES, the profit margins are better for the oil companies than they were in the 1990s (or in 2000 specifically)... why? Because oil was held at artificially low levels throughout the decade culminating in $10 oil in 1999. (yet no one bitched about the speculators then... when they were keeping oil below fair value... I wonder why???) Yes, the profit margin has come back up since 1999 (a year they all were LOSING money). But when you look at the long term average, the sector tends to earn a profit margin about 7-10%. Which is similar to most sectors of the S&P 500. (especially the manufacturers)

Your math skills are worse than Bush's. Their profit margin is translated to cents on the dollar. IF their profit margin is 8%, they are earning 8 cents on the dollar. Period. The profit margin is calculated based on ALL revenue streams. Period.

They are NOT earning some magically calculated 25%... but nice try....
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they are earning 8 cents on every ''dollar sold'' super, not dollar invested....those dollars invested (or cost of sales ) have an initial mark up.


Simply...

it costs 5 dollars to make a loaf of bread, (the money you had to invest of your own to cover your costs to make the bread)

You sell the bread for $10 dollars at retail...that's the revenue you generated from your 5 dollar investment....

then you minus out what you pay in taxes, let's say that is $3 bucks on the $10.

so take the $10 in sales(revenues generated)
minus out the $5 bucks you invested to make it, minus out your taxes due of $3 bucks and you are left with $2 bucks in profit...

take that $2 bucks divide it by the $10 and you got yourself a 20% profit margin...

But if you were to try to figure out what you made on your investment of $5 dollars, you would take the $2 bucks and divide it by the $5 bucks you invested and you would have a 40% return....on your initial investment of $5 bucks.....

yes this is simplified but it shows you how a company is making more on their investment then what it appears when just analyzing their profit margin because a profit margin is based on Sale Revenues generated, not on what it actually cost you to invest in the product being sold....

I ain't playing with numbers super, I am showing you how profits are calculated, which is off of sales revenue not off of what they actually had to invest.
 
as a non socialist capitalist markets the system is set up to reward growth, better tech, and smarter people. Product sell at the prices consumers are will to pay for them.
MARKETING 101!!!!
 
Topspin said:
as a non socialist capitalist markets the system is set up to reward growth, better tech, and smarter people. Product sell at the prices consumers are will to pay for them.
MARKETING 101!!!!
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guess you never went over monopolies and cartels and the likes and how they come in to the picture?
 
you shouldn't have dropped out, an average understanding of business would have suited your common sense 100x more than what your stuck with.
 
Care4all said:
they are earning 8 cents on every ''dollar sold'' super, not dollar invested....those dollars invested (or cost of sales ) have an initial mark up.


Simply...

it costs 5 dollars to make a loaf of bread, (the money you had to invest of your own to cover your costs to make the bread)

You sell the bread for $10 dollars at retail...that's the revenue you generated from your 5 dollar investment....

then you minus out what you pay in taxes, let's say that is $3 bucks on the $10.

so take the $10 in sales(revenues generated)
minus out the $5 bucks you invested to make it, minus out your taxes due of $3 bucks and you are left with $2 bucks in profit...

take that $2 bucks divide it by the $10 and you got yourself a 20% profit margin...

But if you were to try to figure out what you made on your investment of $5 dollars, you would take the $2 bucks and divide it by the $5 bucks you invested and you would have a 40% return....on your initial investment of $5 bucks.....

yes this is simplified but it shows you how a company is making more on their investment then what it appears when just analyzing their profit margin because a profit margin is based on Sale Revenues generated, not on what it actually cost you to invest in the product being sold....

I ain't playing with numbers super, I am showing you how profits are calculated, which is off of sales revenue not off of what they actually had to invest.
Click to expand...


so you are trying to talk about ROI rather than profitability? Then perhaps you shouldn't tell someone that they are "wrong on profit margins".
 
Care4all said:
and you have been OWNED on that super and dixie! :D
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Funny.... to claim to have owned someone, shouldn't you actually KNOW what you are trying to talk about???

Perhaps not making mistakes in telling someone they are wrong, when in fact, you were simply thinking about one topic (ROI) while stating the other party was wrong about the other (profit margin).

Everything I stated about profit margin was 100% correct. You simply confused the topics in your mind and were not clear on the fact that you wanted to also discuss ROI.

Now you and dixie can go on about who owned whom. When you get done playing.... come on back and we can discuss further.
 
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