Ayn Rand and the Invincible Cult of Selfishness on the American Right

apple0154 said:
It's strange that people think poverty and welfare is something others choose.

Help is not just handing a person money. Help is medical attention. Counseling. Educational opportunities.

A healthy individual wants to better themselves. When we see a child doing something destructive to themselves, be it bad behavior or refusing to study or not participating in activities with other children, we know there is something wrong. Why would anyone believe a lethargic 16 year old needs guidance but an individual, at 18, is just a lazy adult?
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then I will chose to be poor and quit my job so you all can take care of me..yep, sounds like a plan Stan..
 
apple0154 said:
It's not so much a matter of compassion as it is prejudice. Governments implement plans to help groups of people whereas local charities tend to focus on individuals.

For example, let's say the government implements a program for single mothers to return to school. Every single mother whose circumstances fit the criteria is eligible.

A local charity can decide to send single mothers back to school but without a strict mandate they can deny a certain single mother and give assistance to a member whose house was partially destroyed by fire and who didn't have insurance. They are not obliged to treat everyone the same. That's why we can't depend on local charities, church groups, etc. Favoritism will inevitably enter the picture.
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I would respond to that but after the 'SC loss I barely have the will to live let alone discuss politics.
 
uscitizen said:
LOL, Joe the plumber. I'll bet the righties hoped everyone had forgotten that fiasco.
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I did a breakdown of the numbers when Joe first entered the news. The total tax increase on $275,000 income would have been .125% which is approximately one dollar for every $800.00 he would earn. That was Joe's reason why he would have to think long and hard before purchasing a business.

Then the Repubs picked up that ball and ran with it. 0ne (1) dollar out of eight (800) hundred dollars. That constituted "distributing the wealth", spreading the money around. That was the injustice! That was the basis of the Republican outrage!

Blatant, unabashed socialism!!!!
 
apple0154 said:
I did a breakdown of the numbers when Joe first entered the news. The total tax increase on $275,000 income would have been .125% which is approximately one dollar for every $800.00 he would earn. That was Joe's reason why he would have to think long and hard before purchasing a business.

Then the Repubs picked up that ball and ran with it. 0ne (1) dollar out of eight (800) hundred dollars. That constituted "distributing the wealth", spreading the money around. That was the injustice! That was the basis of the Republican outrage!

Blatant, unabashed socialism!!!!
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naaa, not Socialism, Communism sounds more like it..
 
meme said:
the hell with that...once you all get your wish, I'm becoming a beach bum..sounds like fun..all play and no work..
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You see, that's just it. People have the attitude the poor chose that way of life because it's better. If it is so good why aren't people giving their money away and living like the poor?
 
apple0154 said:
You see, that's just it. People have the attitude the poor chose that way of life because it's better. If it is so good why aren't people giving their money away and living like the poor?
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Because some people believe in keeping what they've worked hard for; but once you take away that opportunity, then what incentive do they have.
 
apple0154 said:
You see, that's just it. People have the attitude the poor chose that way of life because it's better. If it is so good why aren't people giving their money away and living like the poor?
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don't ask me ask them..
I was poor at one time and am a long way from being rich, comfortable for me, but I think I'll chose to be poor again after you all get your way...I'm already thinking of what I'm going to do with my time..I'll at least come back and thank ya all..:clink:
 
meme said:
then I will chose to be poor and quit my job so you all can take care of me..yep, sounds like a plan Stan..
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I asked Apple if he would take care of me, but he said NO WAY, so you know from where he is coming. Dang, one just can't trust these lefties. They always want someone else to pay, not them.
 
midcan5 said:
'Wealthcare' By Jonathan Chait

"The current era of Democratic governance has provoked a florid response on the right, ranging from the prosaic (routine denunciations of big spending and debt) to the overheated (fears of socialism) to the lunatic (the belief that Democrats plan to put the elderly to death). Amid this cacophony of rage and dread, there has emerged one anxiety that is an actual idea, and not a mere slogan or factual misapprehension. The idea is that the United States is divided into two classes--the hard-working productive elite, and the indolent masses leeching off their labor by means of confiscatory taxes and transfer programs.

You can find iterations of this worldview and this moral judgment everywhere on the right. Consider a few samples of the rhetoric. In an op-ed piece last spring, Arthur Brooks, the president of the American Enterprise Institute, called for conservatives to wage a "culture war" over capitalism. "Social Democrats are working to create a society where the majority are net recipients of the ‘sharing economy,' " he wrote. "Advocates of free enterprise . . . have to declare that it is a moral issue to confiscate more income from the minority simply because the government can." Brooks identified the constituency for his beliefs as "the people who were doing the important things right--and who are now watching elected politicians reward those who did the important things wrong." Senator Jim DeMint echoed this analysis when he lamented that "there are two Americas but not the kind John Edwards was talking about. It's not so much the haves and the have-nots. It's those who are paying for government and those who are getting government.""

http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/wealthcare-0
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True enough...just look at the CEO's of banks and investment firms who's criminal incompetance has led to our economic woes....rewarding themselves with "bonus" money of obscene amounts. The reasoning? They deserve it! Now last time I checked, if I fuck up on the job and get canned, I don't get a bonus that exceeds the net profit of most small to medium businesses.

But they're better than you and me...:rolleyes:
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Nice spin; but once again, you want to use apples and oranges.
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True with taxes they only take a little of you money as you make it. With medical expenses they can take everything you own and have worked all your life for in a hurry just so you can keep a loved one alive.

but then since private industry is getting it that makes it ok somehow?
As long as that evil govt does not get it.
 
uscitizen said:
True with taxes they only take a little of you money as you make it. With medical expenses they can take everything you own and have worked all your life for in a hurry just so you can keep a loved one alive.

but then since private industry is getting it that makes it ok somehow?
As long as that evil govt does not get it.
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Liberal spin.
Happens anytime something is brought up that they can't debunk.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Because some people believe in keeping what they've worked hard for; but once you take away that opportunity, then what incentive do they have.
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Nobody suggests taking it all away. I showed the numbers pertaining to Joe the Plumber. That was the rallying cry of the Republican party. Can you honestly say .125% or one dollar on 800 dollars is taking away ones incentive?

Surely the Republican Party spotted the absurdity of running with that example or is that example what the average Republican believes? Do you consider that tax increase outrageous?

Imagine all the retired people with savings who could help their children go to university or buy a home but how can they knowing if they get sick they may need that money?

Many retired people have a set pension and perhaps investments. They have a good idea how much money they need to live on but how can they determine their financial-medical needs? How can anyone determine their financial-medical needs?

Imagine if that worry was removed. Talk about a stimulus package! Sure, people would still want to keep their hard earned money but if their medical welfare could be assured wouldn't they tend to be a little more generous/relaxed/giving?
 
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