Ayn Rand and the Invincible Cult of Selfishness on the American Right

TuTu Monroe said:
I asked Apple if he would take care of me, but he said NO WAY, so you know from where he is coming. Dang, one just can't trust these lefties. They always want someone else to pay, not them.
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Now that's just not true! I've been trying for years to get my hands.........I mean I've offered to pay..........I mean..............:igive:
 
apple0154 said:
Nobody suggests taking it all away. I showed the numbers pertaining to Joe the Plumber. That was the rallying cry of the Republican party. Can you honestly say .125% or one dollar on 800 dollars is taking away ones incentive?

Surely the Republican Party spotted the absurdity of running with that example or is that example what the average Republican believes? Do you consider that tax increase outrageous?

Imagine all the retired people with savings who could help their children go to university or buy a home but how can they knowing if they get sick they may need that money?

Many retired people have a set pension and perhaps investments. They have a good idea how much money they need to live on but how can they determine their financial-medical needs? How can anyone determine their financial-medical needs?

Imagine if that worry was removed. Talk about a stimulus package! Sure, people would still want to keep their hard earned money but if their medical welfare could be assured wouldn't they tend to be a little more generous/relaxed/giving?
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Show me where I used any terminology that implied "all".

Most people don't like being forced to work for free, even if it's only for a short time.
 
apple0154 said:
You see, that's just it. People have the attitude the poor chose that way of life because it's better. If it is so good why aren't people giving their money away and living like the poor?
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I was poor growing up, but I made it all on my own, without any help from anyone. It's a good feeling.
 
Taichiliberal said:
True enough...just look at the CEO's of banks and investment firms who's criminal incompetance has led to our economic woes....rewarding themselves with "bonus" money of obscene amounts. The reasoning? They deserve it! Now last time I checked, if I fuck up on the job and get canned, I don't get a bonus that exceeds the net profit of most small to medium businesses.

But they're better than you and me...:rolleyes:
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The irony to me dude is I live in the heart of SF, the ATM of the Democratic political world and I know all about those who live around me (just because I like business and real estate so not in a stalkerish way I just am interested). All kinds of CEO's of real estate and financial firms. These guys are Democrats. There is plenty of irony in the Republican party so I don't need a comparison to already know that. But this one hits at the heart of the Dems.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Show me where I used any terminology that implied "all".

Most people don't like being forced to work for free, even if it's only for a short time.
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We're talking about one dollar out of eight hundred to be used to help others. Besides the idiocy of Joe saying that would influence his decision the Republican Party ran with it as if that was their belief, one of the tenets of their platform. What message does that send? Certainly not Compassionate Conservatism.

As far as robbing one of incentive if a person contracts an illness and knows their government is against helping to the point where one dollar out of eight hundred is considered excessive what type of society are we going to have?

Of course people will hold on to every dollar when they live in a society knowing their government will let them rot before helping. Such policies promote selfishness, people constantly watching out no one gets any help from the government.

That's why we constantly hear so much about welfare. The actual cost is not that much but people are so jealous, so envious someone may be getting something and they're not.

Lack of government assistance/programs such as medical care and monetary assistance when needed causes people to become jealous, greedy, selfish, etc. That's not the way a society should function. How can people care about others when they know their own government does not care about them?

That's why the word "change" is so appropriate. There needs to be a fundamental, sweeping change. We have the resources and technology to ensure no one is left destitute. That doesn't mean just giving money away. There are a number of ways the government can implement programs to ensure everyone has a basic standard of living and medical coverage is a great place to start.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
I was poor growing up, but I made it all on my own, without any help from anyone. It's a good feeling.
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I'm always reminded of this when I hear people say they did it on their own.

Joe Republican

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have." (END)

As for making it on ones own I do agree making out.....oops, making it...is a good feeling. (Freudian slip)
 
DNC said:
I wonder if memeliar knows that Ms. Rand was a Russian.
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Has anybody on here actually ever read Atlas Shrugged? I started to read it a while back but gave up, it is a very turgid read seeming to be more about shoving Objectivism down your throat than anything else. I can see why the rightwing nuts love it though, it is a bit like a in-house magazine for all their prejudices and fears.
 
They may pretend to love it, yet I doubt very many have read it, and probably fewer still even comprehend it.
 
tom prendergast said:
Has anybody on here actually ever read Atlas Shrugged? I started to read it a while back but gave up, it is a very turgid read seeming to be more about shoving Objectivism down your throat than anything else. I can see why the rightwing nuts love it though, it is a bit like a in-house magazine for all their prejudices and fears.
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Yea I've read it. Every last word. God it was tedious. Rand makes some excellent points. Our society has little respect for those who actually produce. That's true of both left and right. Many one the right grasp at Rand because she reinforces some of their basic beliefs but they do so with out having a clue about objectivism. For example, look at Wall Street and it's "It's not what you know but who you know mentality."

Objectivism is an interesting philosophy and certainly has validity but it's not the "Be All" of philosophies and one would be mistaken to replace utilitrianism with objectivism. Particularly in public service.
 
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