C.S. Lewis vs. Friedrich Nietzsche

Jack said:
Just barely.
Time for a Story?

The Tenant came over to pay her Rent, late as usual. This is the one that 'Dances' at Clubs in the French Quarter. So, she tells me she has been in Cabo the last 3 weeks, making money. Cabo San Lucas is at the end of Baja, a Beach-type Resort, lots of sun. But, she looked real 'white', NOT tan. I asked her about 'getting a suntan'. She hoists up her dress and shows me a faint tan line between her hip and leg, exposing half her butt at the same time. Obviously NOT wearing any underwear. Then she starts talking about her Tattoos, which she has quite a few of. At this point, I'm not sure if she is talking about her suntan, Tattoos, or just likes showing off her butt. Then, she turns, lifts her dress again and shows me more Tattoos ... along with more butt. I said something like 'that's a lot of money there', and she said she wants to get into modeling Lingerie. I said 'yeah, there's probably a niche for that', and she said 'yeah, Tattooed girls and Lingerie is a Thing'.
Anyway, she paid the Rent, I gave her a Receipt, and stood up to indicate the 'Fashion Show' was over with and it was time to go. After she left, I was wondering if the 'suntan and Tattoo' discussion was honest (which I thought it was) or was this some 'dress rehearsal' for her 'Lingerie Modeling Career'?

So. See. There is still Life at the End of the Road. :)
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I'm thinking little Jack didn't rise to the occasion in time.
 
Cypress said:
So you are not a relativist and materialist, as you seemed to insinuate.

You agree that humanity has an innate universal (or widespread) moral standard against which we compare and weigh the ethics of various actions.

Where does this moral standard come from? I am not saying it comes from a God, but there is something in the human condition that leads to it
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I try/want to be a Realist.
'Moral Standard'. Something the Majority agrees upon. Nothing 'transcendental' about it.

Transcendent.
"beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience".

You are attempting to turn 'Man's Law' into something more than it is. You can't quite grasp Logic & Reason. You (your personality-type) needs some kind of 'mystic force' to justify whatever 'Law' that is in place.
Queers getting 'married'. Is that some kind of 'transcendent moral code' to you?
'Polygamy'. What's the 'transcendent moral code' there?

'Natural Law'. Just another Bumper Sticker slogan to add weight to something 'Man' has proposed.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
A corporation is a money engine. It has no morality, no conscience. It's only function is to make money for its shareholders. As such, if given too much power, it is no different than a despotic government.** Democracies must be maintained like a marriage. If not maintained, then apathy sets in and things begin to fall apart.


**Dupont and the Bhopal disaster. Up to 15,000 humans dead and Dupont pays a few bucks to the families. Corporate despotism IMO.

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2...st-industrial-disaster-30-years-later/100864/
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I think the concern liberals had, beginning in the 19th century, is that corporate interests had so much money they could control the government, undermine the principles of republican democracy, turn labor into serfs.

Given what happened in the guilded age of robber barons, this was a reasonable fear to have.
 
Jack said:
I try/want to be a Realist.
'Moral Standard'. Something the Majority agrees upon. Nothing 'transcendental' about it.

Transcendent.
"beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience".

You are attempting to turn 'Man's Law' into something more than it is. You can't quite grasp Logic & Reason. You (your personality-type) needs some kind of 'mystic force' to justify whatever 'Law' that is in place.
Queers getting 'married'. Is that some kind of 'transcendent moral code' to you?
'Polygamy'. What's the 'transcendent moral code' there?

'Natural Law'. Just another Bumper Sticker slogan to add weight to something 'Man' has proposed.
Click to expand...

So if the majority of Germans just happened to agree with the persecution and extermination of the Jews, according to you that would constitute a new moral standard that would supercede any natural moral order humans may be imbued with by virtue of their humanity.
 
Cypress said:
I think the concern liberals had, beginning in the 19th century, is that corporate interests had so much money they could control the government, undermine the principles of republican democracy, turn labor into serfs.

Given what happened in the guilded age of robber barons, this was a reasonable fear to have.
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It's still a reasonable concern and, as the destruction of the unions and the power of money in DC has proved, it's a reality. Notice that the Democrats both complain about it and hold out their hands for both corporate and foreign money.

Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...871a82-9319-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html
Hacked emails show extent of foreign government donations to Clinton Foundation
According to an email sent to Clinton Foundation officials, the ambassador to Qatar requested a meeting with former president Bill Clinton in 2012, apparently so that he could present a $1 million check that Qatar had promised in honor of Clinton’s birthday in 2011....

...The 2008 ethics agreement had been hashed out by top aides for President Obama and Clinton Foundation officials. The agreement provided an avenue for the foundation to accept donations from foreign governments that had never given before or were increasing the size of their donations. Those donations were to be submitted to the State Department for vetting. But State Department officials have said the process was never used.

A foundation official indicated that Qatar’s 2012 gift did not represent an increase in the nation’s giving that required State Department approval.

The Clinton Foundation has acknowledged that it accepted one gift that should have been vetted and approved by the State Department — $500,000 from Algeria to assist Haiti after the devastating earthquake in 2010....
 
Jack said:
I try/want to be a Realist.
'Moral Standard'. Something the Majority agrees upon. Nothing 'transcendental' about it.

Transcendent.
"beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience".

You are attempting to turn 'Man's Law' into something more than it is. You can't quite grasp Logic & Reason. You (your personality-type) needs some kind of 'mystic force' to justify whatever 'Law' that is in place.
Queers getting 'married'. Is that some kind of 'transcendent moral code' to you?
'Polygamy'. What's the 'transcendent moral code' there?

'Natural Law'. Just another Bumper Sticker slogan to add weight to something 'Man' has proposed.
Click to expand...

Jack; are you an atheist that believes "when you're dead, you're dead" and that you, me, Cypress and everyone else is just an ambulatory meat computer responding to biochemical programming and of no more value than our component parts?

Are you saying Putin's mass slaughter of civilians is okay as a matter of "natural law"? The Law of the Jungle?
 
Cypress said:
So if the majority of Germans just happened to agree with the persecution and extermination of the Jews, according to you that would constitute a new moral standard that would supercede any natural moral order humans may be imbued with by virtue of their humanity.
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So, it's YOUR view that the Germans were imbued with a 'natural moral order', some 'transcendent code', that caused them to persecute and exterminate Jews. (?)
 
Jack said:
So, it's YOUR view that the Germans were imbued with a 'natural moral order', some 'transcendent code', that caused them to persecute and exterminate Jews. (?)
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You're not only proving yourself to be an idiot, Jack, but also a coward.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Jack; are you an atheist that believes "when you're dead, you're dead" and that you, me, Cypress and everyone else is just an ambulatory meat computer responding to biochemical programming and of no more value than our component parts?

Are you saying Putin's mass slaughter of civilians is okay as a matter of "natural law"? The Law of the Jungle?
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I try to avoid responding to you because you have nothing to say. Like 'Truth Detector', you make shit up, then respond to the shit that you just made up. I think you just like hearing yourself ramble on and on. (?)
 
Jack said:
So, it's YOUR view that the Germans were imbued with a 'natural moral order', some 'transcendent code', that caused them to persecute and exterminate Jews. (?)
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No, the Nazi leadership went to great lengths to hide what they were doing, and to decieve the wider world as to what was going on.

Which means they recognized they were violating a natural moral order humanity generally considers acceptable, even if they were choosing not to act on that natural moral order..


I would like to see you provide further defense of your position that morality is whatever the majority in a given community decide at any given time.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Jack; are you an atheist that believes "when you're dead, you're dead" and that you, me, Cypress and everyone else is just an ambulatory meat computer responding to biochemical programming and of no more value than our component parts?

Are you saying Putin's mass slaughter of civilians is okay as a matter of "natural law"? The Law of the Jungle?
Click to expand...

Jack says that a moral order is whatever the majority in a given community decides it is is at a given time
 
Cypress said:
No, the Nazi leadership went to great lengths to hide what they were doing, and to decieve the wider world as to what was going on.

Which means they recognized there was a natural moral order humanity generally considers acceptable they were violating, even if they were choosing not to act on that natural moral order..


I would like to see you provide further defense of your position that morality is whatever the majority in a given community decide at any given time.
Click to expand...

I've given you a few that you seem to ignore. If I re-state them, will you address them?

1. Queers marrying. What's the 'natural law' on this? The 'transcendental code'?
2. Polygamy. Same Question.
3. How about 'Land Ownership'. Any reason for one person to have 10 houses in 10 countries and another person living in a cardboard box under a bridge?
 
Cypress said:
Jack says that a moral order is whatever the majority in a given community decides it is is at a given time
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Agreed that's why he's pushing the genocide of Jews by the Nazis. He believes humans are purely animals and that we should live by "Might makes Right" on a daily basis.

$50 says he'd think different when someone comes to his room, beats the shit out of him and takes all of his stuff.

Another $50 says, at some point during the beating he'd start screaming "Dear God, please stop!" LOL

No atheists in foxholes, eh? :laugh: :rofl2: :laugh:

Jack said:
I will wait on your 'natural law' and 'transcendent code' to Answer the Question.
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Might makes right, eh, Jack?
 
Jack said:
I've given you a few that you seem to ignore. If I re-state them, will you address them?

1. Queers marrying. What's the 'natural law' on this? The 'transcendental code'?
2. Polygamy. Same Question.
3. How about 'Land Ownership'. Any reason for one person to have 10 houses in 10 countries and another person living in a cardboard box under a bridge?
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Marriage customs and property ownership vary by nation.

But you are dead wrong in claiming a moral order is just whatever the majority claims it is at any given time.

The Nazis tried to hide what they were doing to the Jews. Stalin hid what was happening in the Gulag. American slave owners downplayed or denied how badly many slaves were treated.

Because they knew in the back of their minds they were violating a natural moral order.

Every day of the week millions of people worldwide feel guilty for acts of lying, disloyalty, philandering, cheating because in the back of their mind they know they are violating a moral order that humanity at large adopts, by virtue of being human.
 
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