Can Obama actually lose/blow what should be the easiest presidential election?

You do not understand the southern evangelical rednecks.

I understand southern rednecks very well .. and if I may .. I don't require white people .. even good well-meaning white people to school me about racism.

Why is it democrats haven't noticed such overwhelming racism when blacks talk about the injustice of the criminal system?

Where was all the outrage when African-American after African-American continued to be murdered by the police, including a 92 year-old woman quietly sitting alone in her home?

Now "racism" is being reduced to a centrist excuse for a failed campaign
 
BAC is expecting perfection in a politician ?

You are fully capable of debating what I actually say.

I never expected perfect and I said so during the primaries .. however, I do require reasonable honesty and a backbone.

Obviously, you do not .. yet you complain about republicans.
 
I understand southern rednecks very well .. and if I may .. I don't require white people .. even good well-meaning white people to school me about racism.

Why is it democrats haven't noticed such overwhelming racism when blacks talk about the injustice of the criminal system?

Where was all the outrage when African-American after African-American continued to be murdered by the police, including a 92 year-old woman quietly sitting alone in her home?

Now "racism" is being reduced to a centrist excuse for a failed campaign

I thnk some personal issues are clouding the view for BAC.
Can't see the forest for the trees thing.
 
Hyperbole?

FISA .. after pledging to filibuster any bill which contained immunity for telecommunications companies involved in electronic surveillance

Off-shore drilling

Meeting with foreign leaders we don't like

The Cuba Embargo

Immigration

Single-Payer Healthcare and an Individual Health Care Mandate

NAFTA

Donations from lobbyists and PACS

Jerusalem

Shifted from opposing welfare reform to celebrating it

Shifted his position on nuclear power

Shifted on legislation labeling Iran's Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization and on the threat of Iran

Patriot Act

D.C. Handgun ban

Death penalty

Abortion .. AND he insisted he voted for protecting infants who survive abortion, but he actually voted against just such a law. When he insisted that he only voted against it because it would water down abortion, he lied because the law included such a provision.

Considering reducing corporate taxes despite having called Corporate Tax Cuts "The exact wrong prescription for America"

Even the on the one issue that propelled him into the nomination Iraq and the withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

He now considers the "surge" a success "beyond anyone's wildest dreams"

Now he speaks of war and further intrusion into Afghanistan and Pakistan.

He's taken the wrong position on Georgia and backs passing one billion dollars of US taxpayer money to Georgia .. far from the "different course" he promised during the campaign.


Hyperbole?

You haven't seen these flip-flops because you haven't been looking .. nor do I believe you care to see them.

Looks more like a list from "redstate.com." The surge comment, in context, is not a "flip flop." The DC handgun ban position is not a "flip flop" (yes, someone from his campaign said something different, but there was no difference in his comments before & after). He is still committed to withdrawing troops from Iraq; I don't see the difference on that. He hasn't backed off his position on corporate taxes; regardless, the economy is changing dramatically every day, and I would expect a candidate to respond to changing demands. The entire party has changed position on offshore drilling, as have I - I see it as part of a compromise solution to move alt energy forward; again, if you can't adapt to changing demands, I have no use for you in public life.

This isn't much of a list when you break it down. I listed some of the things - important issues to me - that he has been consistent on, so the characterization of 'absolutely everything' is inaccurate at best. With all due, it is like you WANT to believe the worst in him now. I'm just not in that place; on the important issues, he is still where he has been...
 
I understand southern rednecks very well .. and if I may .. I don't require white people .. even good well-meaning white people to school me about racism.

Why is it democrats haven't noticed such overwhelming racism when blacks talk about the injustice of the criminal system?

Where was all the outrage when African-American after African-American continued to be murdered by the police, including a 92 year-old woman quietly sitting alone in her home?

Now "racism" is being reduced to a centrist excuse for a failed campaign

So, there isn’t racism, but there is racism when you are confronted directly about it, but white people have no right to notice it, that’s false outrage or something. I seem to recall your feeling free to act as if white women required schooling from you on abortion rights, during the primary, but ok, whatever.

As I have already said, I make no apologies for supporting the man, and Onceler is right, it is like you want to believe the worst about the guy in every way. You completely ignored my post about the reasons why I do support him. And let me be clear: I’m a woman. If the ONLY issue separating McCain and Obama was that McCain wants to force me to bring a pregnancy resulting from a violent rape to term, and Obama doesn’t, I’d vote for Obama. Now, there are many other differences and I feel that the planetary crisis of global warming at least merits a mention from you, but you seem to believe that you get special dispensation to be kinda belligerent. . You don’t want to address what I said, because you have no answer for it, and so your tactic is to continue demanding answers from others.

Whatever your reasons are bac, let’s not pretend that just because you are black, you speak for blacks…anymore than I speak for whites. Millions of black people will vote for Obama, and if he wins, they will wake up the next morning, and for the first time in our history, be able to tell their children that they can be President some day, and to millions of people, that is going to mean something more than you want to say. I'm not black, but I can kinda guess at this, and you know why? Cause black people are human. I'm human. See?

For the most part, you speak for yourself, and your own group of people, just as when I speak of the anti-war crowd, I know something about what they want and think…but they are in no way representative of white people. For the most part, I speak for me and you speak for yourself, but you like to pretend that you are speaking for the black community, witness your constant claims of Obama losing support among blacks.

I really avoid arguing with you, because I like you, but sometimes you go too far in the way you talk to and about people. I’m not ashamed of voting for rights over my own body. And I don’t like you treating me as if I should be. It makes me angry, sorry if I make you angry in return, but sometimes I just can't ignore it.
 
Well, to address both usc and Cypress, I’m not saying you guys are wrong, exactly. But Obama has been hitting McCain hard, just not nasty. Maybe he needs to get nasty, but not now. Because right now, McCain is suffering a huge backlash against his own nastiness, and the campaign he has been running. Let’s allow that to play out. Look, Obama’s not a nasty guy. He’s just not. Even when he is hitting McCain hard, he’s funny about it. Should he be someone he’s not? I think we learned from Kerry, that no he shouldn’t be…unless things are dire, then maybe he can take a hammer to McCain’s face, but we’re not at that point. Obama is rebounding, he’s doing ok.


I know what your saying.

And the only extent to which I disagree is that there are appropriate ways to get Medieval and harsh on McCain without tainting Obama.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but Republicans devised the artform of going under the radar with shit, and allowing people like Bush to claim that he "doesn't know" anything about the swiftboaters.

I don't disagree that Obama has to remain above the fray to an extent. He doesn't want to tarnish his image. The Old Man McCain is really coming off like a kook and a liar. That Ad McCain ran about Obama wanting to teach sex to children in kindergarten was about the shittiest most despicable lie I've seen all year.

Obama needs to take advantage of the 527s and unleash them. I think he made a mistake last Spring, by shutting down the 527s. Those are the people that do the dirty work. And again, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I heard Obama just telegraphed the 527s to jump into the fray. I think Obama knows he needs surrogates to do the under the radar dirty work.

I hate saying that. Because this is all about the lowest common denominator of democracy. But after seeing how the republicans turned Al Gore into a serial liar, and turned Kerry into a coward who ran from combat and lied to get medals, I really don't give a shit anymore.
 
Like Darla said, he's doing just fine. McCain's only bright spot has been a 2-week bump from the novelty of Palin. Obama surged back this week, and I've got a hunch he's sitting on a 5-6% lead right now (to be reflected in the dailies in the next few days). He's staying on message, while McCain seems to be self-destructing a bit. The more desperate McCain gets, the worse he's going to look.

Obama doesn't need to get dirty, or encourage others to do so. The 527's are still out there - I saw a swiftboat type ad against McCain, and I hated it, because it reminded me of all the BS from '04. If you have to become them to beat them, it's not worth beating them.
 
I think Obama can beat the dog crap out of McCain on economics without getting dirty. Now is the time.

Maybe you and Darla are right.

I've just become jaded after what the Repukes did to Clinton, Gore, and Kerry.

I really think it is possible to win an election by lying, by voter caging, and by voter suppression. Which is what repukes excell at. We shall see.
 
Like Darla said, he's doing just fine. McCain's only bright spot has been a 2-week bump from the novelty of Palin. Obama surged back this week, and I've got a hunch he's sitting on a 5-6% lead right now (to be reflected in the dailies in the next few days). He's staying on message, while McCain seems to be self-destructing a bit. The more desperate McCain gets, the worse he's going to look.

Obama doesn't need to get dirty, or encourage others to do so. The 527's are still out there - I saw a swiftboat type ad against McCain, and I hated it, because it reminded me of all the BS from '04. If you have to become them to beat them, it's not worth beating them.


I agree, I guess I am not clear. Now is the time to do an issue driven campaign against McCain based on the economy. Up front and factual.
 
Like Darla said, he's doing just fine. McCain's only bright spot has been a 2-week bump from the novelty of Palin. Obama surged back this week, and I've got a hunch he's sitting on a 5-6% lead right now (to be reflected in the dailies in the next few days). He's staying on message, while McCain seems to be self-destructing a bit. The more desperate McCain gets, the worse he's going to look.

Obama doesn't need to get dirty, or encourage others to do so. The 527's are still out there - I saw a swiftboat type ad against McCain, and I hated it, because it reminded me of all the BS from '04. If you have to become them to beat them, it's not worth beating them.


Well, I'm out here in Cali. Safe Obama country. So, I'm not seeing the Ads and the campaigns, in the swing states. So, I'm a little removed from the fray.

The only thing that bugs me, is that I heard the same thing about the Kerry campaign. Kerry should have beat Bush, and most decent people said Kerry's campaign had to stick to the issues and not get too harsh.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Obama or the 527s go out and lie about mccain.

There's enough republican incompetence and crimes to attack without having to deviate a degree from the truth.
 
Getting tons of ads here in NM. So far nothing real negative from either. Don't know if the McCain camp put the lying ad that said that Obama wants to teach kindergartner's how to fuck.
 
Like Darla said, he's doing just fine. McCain's only bright spot has been a 2-week bump from the novelty of Palin. Obama surged back this week, and I've got a hunch he's sitting on a 5-6% lead right now (to be reflected in the dailies in the next few days). He's staying on message, while McCain seems to be self-destructing a bit. The more desperate McCain gets, the worse he's going to look.

Obama doesn't need to get dirty, or encourage others to do so. The 527's are still out there - I saw a swiftboat type ad against McCain, and I hated it, because it reminded me of all the BS from '04. If you have to become them to beat them, it's not worth beating them.

Speaking of that hillbilly, I was just on cafepress ordering a "Pro-Woman Anti-Palin" bumper sticker. But I have those magnets that you can put any sticker on, which is a good thing, because my car is like a reading of my emotional state lately.
 
Maybe you and Darla are right.

I've just become jaded after what the Repukes did to Clinton, Gore, and Kerry.

I really think it is possible to win an election by lying, by voter caging, and by voter suppression. Which is what repukes excell at. We shall see.

Well, despite what that incredible f'ing moron Toppy is spouting, we're in an economic situation that is widely and mainstreamly being referred to as the "worst since the great depression"...I think that usc is right and Obama can keep this on hitting grandpa fester on his incoherent and delusional economic "policy". I think this time is different, but if not, then I guess this country has seen her best days, because we ain't getting up from four more years of this. We'll see.
 
Looks more like a list from "redstate.com." The surge comment, in context, is not a "flip flop." The DC handgun ban position is not a "flip flop" (yes, someone from his campaign said something different, but there was no difference in his comments before & after). He is still committed to withdrawing troops from Iraq; I don't see the difference on that. He hasn't backed off his position on corporate taxes; regardless, the economy is changing dramatically every day, and I would expect a candidate to respond to changing demands. The entire party has changed position on offshore drilling, as have I - I see it as part of a compromise solution to move alt energy forward; again, if you can't adapt to changing demands, I have no use for you in public life.

This isn't much of a list when you break it down. I listed some of the things - important issues to me - that he has been consistent on, so the characterization of 'absolutely everything' is inaccurate at best. With all due, it is like you WANT to believe the worst in him now. I'm just not in that place; on the important issues, he is still where he has been...

The list .. which did not come from Redstate.com whatever the hell that is .. demonstrates that his flip-flopping is far beyond "hyperbole."

WAR is an important issue to me and if he had run on the policies of WAR that he professes now he would not be the democratic candidate. Do you disagree?

FISA, the PATRIOT ACT, and GOVERNMENT SPYING are important issues to me and if he had run on the policies he's taken now he would not be the democratic candidate. Do you disagree?

The failure of American foreign policy is an important issue for me and Obama is following the Bush doctrine of foreign policy almost to the letter and if he had professed this during the primaries he would not be the nominee. Do you disagree?

The Cuba Embargo, meeting with foreign leaders we don't like, NAFTA, the middle east, corporate taxes and control of the government, and American bluster towards Iran are all important issues to me as well as issues specific to the black community.

I understand that none of this may be of any importance to you, but they are to me .. as well as the character of the person I'm voting for.

I don't support weak centrists.
 
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