Damn

Watermark said:
Your not very good at reading and math.

47% agreed. 20% were neutral. You're a cow.
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"45.6% fully agreed with the statement, "a minimum wage increases unemployment among young and unskilled workers", 27.9% partially agreed, and 26.5% disagreed"

Plus if you wanted to take the partially agree out it's still almost 2/1 agree vs disagree it increased unemployment amoung the youth and low skilled.
 
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OSHA isn't the first thing I'd get rid of but I don't think it's a good thing. It raises prices in fields like care for the handicap and elderly and their is so much waste in bureaucrat jobs and red tape and then regulation boards are paid by private interests that keep out compition that isn't "OSHA" approved. It raises prices and the people hurt most by higher prices are the ones that can least afford to. I would be fine if the Governmet had information they gave out on safty but a strick regulation of what care people get or what people can do at work is not something I support.
 
Obfuscate said:
OSHA isn't the first thing I'd get rid of but I don't think it's a good thing. It raises prices in fields like care for the handicap and elderly and their is so much waste in bureaucrat jobs and red tape and then regulation boards are paid by private interests that keep out compition that isn't "OSHA" approved. It raises prices and the people hurt most by higher prices are the ones that can least afford to. I would be fine if the Governmet had information they gave out on safty but a strick regulation of what care people get or what people can do at work is not something I support.
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It is a good thing. People deserve a safe environment. you don't give a fuck about the poor.

Your big argument about minimum wages laws is that they put CHILDREN out of work. Thing about how fucked up that is.
 
AssHatZombie said:
you don't give a fuck about the poor.

Your big argument about minimum wages laws is that they put CHILDREN out of work. Thing about how fucked up that is.
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No I actually do care and I understand reality, unlike you who only cares in your fantasy land of white knights coming down to save the people and organize society. You love me. I gotta go watch some football. Go Steelers!
 
Obfuscate said:
No I actually do care and I understand reality, unlike you who only cares in your fantasy land of white knights coming down to save the people and organize society. You love me. I gotta go watch some football. Go Steelers!
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No. You only reference dishonest indicators like full employment. And Im not sure that's the only relevant measure here.
 
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Gotta Go
 
Cypress said:
Damn, the guy is an amazing orator. I didn't see it last night. At his best, better than Clinton. Better than Reagan.

Obama's victory speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqoFwZUp5vc&eurl=http://atrios.blogspot.com/
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Obama who?

Are you really going to nominate a man with less experience than Hillery Clinton, who's main claim to expertise is, I was married to a President? This guy has done nothing, he looks 20, he has no platform or idea's, he is one big billboard that's vague and says

CHANGE

Well, change what, what would he do, other than the biggest foreign policy disaster since the Munich Conference. If you call that great orating, well... you though John Kerry would have been a good President, so...
 
Obfuscate said:
Again nothing but assumptions and catch phrases from BAC.

Do you have anything that "disproves" that we had the best economy in the history of mankind without raising minimum wage? I know economic comprehension is not your cup of tea you should stick to things you understand.
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Do you have anything that proves that our economy has been hampered historically from the establishment or the increasing of the minimum wage? Most increases have come after many years of stagnant minimum wages. It seems to me that no upturn nor downturn can be linked to a minimum wage increase. The wage goes up, prices of goods and services go up slightly to absorb the increase in the wages and life goes on. We have had a minimum wage for decades now and I don't think any recession can be linked to the increase in minimum wages. I haven't noticed that the people that take my burger order at McDonalds have necessarily changed so that we have smarter burger order takers. I just don't see any negative affect historically in the US from the increase in Minimum wage.
 
WRL said:
Obama who?

Are you really going to nominate a man with less experience than Hillery Clinton, who's main claim to expertise is, I was married to a President? This guy has done nothing, he looks 20, he has no platform or idea's, he is one big billboard that's vague and says

CHANGE

Well, change what, what would he do, other than the biggest foreign policy disaster since the Munich Conference. If you call that great orating, well... you though John Kerry would have been a good President, so...
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The experience argument is bullshit. Lincoln had two years in the House and was a lawyer. Not much different than Obama and he led a country though the single greatest emergency in our history.
 
Socrtease said:
Do you have anything that proves that our economy has been hampered historically from the establishment or the increasing of the minimum wage? We have had a minimum wage for decades now and I don't think any recession can be linked to the increase in minimum wages.
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It’s not necessarily about hurting the average or the well to do or causing a recession, although it is a distortion in the price system, maybe not a major one. The problem is that it hurts most those whom they were intended to help.
 
Obfuscate said:
It’s not necessarily about hurting the average or the well to do or causing a recession, although it is a distortion in the price system, maybe not a major one. The problem is that it hurts most those whom they were intended to help.
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Maybe adolescents should be in school, and helping the average is ok?
 
Obfuscate said:
"45.6% fully agreed with the statement, "a minimum wage increases unemployment among young and unskilled workers", 27.9% partially agreed, and 26.5% disagreed"

Plus if you wanted to take the partially agree out it's still almost 2/1 agree vs disagree it increased unemployment amoung the youth and low skilled.
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No, it's 1/2.

And the survey is biased. It includes a middle option for agree, but not disagree. That forces people into the middle to it. To count that is disingenous.

The surprising thing is that you couldn't get more.
 
50 Years of Research on the Minimum Wage

Introduction

For many years it has been a matter of conventional wisdom among economists that the minimum wage causes fewer jobs to exist than would be the case without it. This is simply a matter of price theory, taught in every economics textbook, requiring no elaborate analysis to justify. Were this not the case, there would be no logical reason why the minimum wage could not be set at $10, $100, or $1 million per hour.

The following survey of the academic research on the minimum wage is designed to give nonspecialists a sense of just how isolated the Card, Krueger and Katz studies are. It will also indicate that the minimum wage has wide-ranging negative effects that go beyond unemployment. For example, higher minimum wages encourage employers to cut back on training, thus depriving low wage workers of an important means of long-term advancement, in return for a small increase in current income. For many workers this is a very bad trade-off, but one for which the law provides no alternative.




Summary of Research on the Minimum Wage

The minimum wage reduces employment.

Currie and Fallick (1993), Gallasch (1975), Gardner (1981), Peterson (1957), Peterson and Stewart (1969).

The minimum wage reduces employment more among teenagers than adults.

Adie (1973); Brown, Gilroy and Kohen (1981a, 1981b); Fleisher (1981); Hammermesh (1982); Meyer and Wise (1981, 1983a); Minimum Wage Study Commission (1981); Neumark and Wascher (1992); Ragan (1977); Vandenbrink (1987); Welch (1974, 1978); Welch and Cunningham (1978).

The minimum wage reduces employment most among black teenage males.

Al-Salam, Quester, and Welch (1981), Iden (1980), Mincer (1976), Moore (1971), Ragan (1977), Williams (1977a, 1977b).

The minimum wage helped South African whites at the expense of blacks.

Bauer (1959).

The minimum wage hurts blacks generally.

Behrman, Sickles and Taubman (1983); Linneman (1982).

The minimum wage hurts the unskilled.

Krumm (1981).

The minimum wage hurts low wage workers.

Brozen (1962), Cox and Oaxaca (1986), Gordon (1981).

The minimum wage hurts low wage workers particularly during cyclical downturns.

Kosters and Welch (1972), Welch (1974).

The minimum wage increases job turnover.

Hall (1982).

The minimum wage reduces average earnings of young workers.

Meyer and Wise (1983b).

The minimum wage drives workers into uncovered jobs, thus lowering wages in those sectors.

Brozen (1962), Tauchen (1981), Welch (1974).

The minimum wage reduces employment in low-wage industries, such as retailing.

Cotterman (1981), Douty (1960), Fleisher (1981), Hammermesh (1981), Peterson (1981).

The minimum wage hurts small businesses generally.

Kaun (1965).

The minimum wage causes employers to cut back on training.

Hashimoto (1981, 1982), Leighton and Mincer (1981), Ragan (1981).

The minimum wage has long-term effects on skills and lifetime earnings.

Brozen (1969), Feldstein (1973).

The minimum wage leads employers to cut back on fringe benefits.

McKenzie (1980), Wessels (1980).

The minimum wage encourages employers to install labor-saving devices.

Trapani and Moroney (1981).

The minimum wage hurts low-wage regions, such as the South and rural areas.

Colberg (1960, 1981), Krumm (1981).

The minimum wage increases the number of people on welfare.

Brandon (1995), Leffler (1978).

The minimum wage hurts the poor generally.

Stigler (1946).

The minimum wage does little to reduce poverty.

Bonilla (1992), Brown (1988), Johnson and Browning (1983), Kohen and Gilroy (1981), Parsons (1980), Smith and Vavrichek (1987).

The minimum wage helps upper income families.

Bell (1981), Datcher and Loury (1981), Johnson and Browning (1981), Kohen and Gilroy (1981).

The minimum wage helps unions.

Linneman (1982), Cox and Oaxaca (1982).
The minimum wage lowers the capital stock.

McCulloch (1981).

The minimum wage increases inflationary pressure.

Adams (1987), Brozen (1966), Gramlich (1976), Grossman (1983).

The minimum wage increases teenage crime rates.

Hashimoto (1987), Phillips (1981).

The minimum wage encourages employers to hire illegal aliens.

Beranek (1982).

Few workers are permanently stuck at the minimum wage.

Brozen (1969), Smith and Vavrichek (1992).

The minimum wage has had a massive impact on unemployment in Puerto Rico.

Freeman and Freeman (1991), Rottenberg (1981b).

The minimum wage has reduced employment in foreign countries.

Canada: Forrest (1982); Chile: Corbo (1981); Costa Rica: Gregory (1981); France: Rosa (1981).

Characteristics of minimum wage workers

Employment Policies Institute (1994), Haugen and Mellor (1990), Kniesner (1981), Mellor (1987), Mellor and Haugen (1986), Smith and Vavrichek (1987), Van Giezen (1994).



http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/50years.htm
 
It seems they're pretty desperate about it. Children should be in school.

As I said, economists live in an upside down fascist universe.
 
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