Damn

He's certainly a more seasoned politician than he used to be. I was just waiting for him to promise blue skies every day, except when we need rain.

But yes, he certainly is a compelling speaker. Like the antiparticle to Bush.
 
Obfuscate said:
Whatever, like the Dems don't get bought by Corporations, Lawyers and Labor unions. Give me a break, Unless we set laws to keep politics out of the economy both sides will continue to get bought and we get less choices and higher prices. Only a Libertarian minded politician will ever actually do this as they are the only ones that want the Government out of the economy. The idea that any politician votes on the good of the people over the good of their political clout is bogus.
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Don't be so jaded, ob. Change is possible. Libertarians do not have the only true path. Paul raises some good points about the currency system, but giving free reign to corporations to do anything they want is a bad idea.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Don't be so jaded, ob. Change is possible. Libertarians do not have the only true path. Paul raises some good points about the currency system, but giving free reign to corporations to do anything they want is a bad idea.
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Never said free reign, I posted a few of the basic Government functions. It's most of what were taxed for and the regulation boards that create most monopolies.

“Regulation is not about the public interest at all, but is a process, by which interest groups seek to promote their own private interest…Over time; regulatory agencies come to be dominated by the industries regulated”

Richard Posner
 
Obfuscate said:
Never said free reign, I posted a few of the basic Government functions. It's most of what were taxed for and the regulation boards that create most monopolies.

“Regulation is not about the public interest at all, but is a process, by which interest groups seek to promote their own private interest…Over time; regulatory agencies come to be dominated by the industries regulated”

Richard Posner
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So what about osha regulations, or minimum wage laws? It is about the public interest sometimes. You live in a society with a middle class enabled by government regulation and unions. The fascists want you to forget this fact.
 
Yeah, the standard of living in the U.S. is not due to the innovation and advances of the free market it's from Government regulation. lol..
 
Obfuscate said:
Yeah, the standard of living in the U.S. is not due to the innovation and advances of the free market it's from Government regulation. lol..
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No. there has been innovation. But you're a fool if you think the middle class would be what it is without some government regulation. Keep laughing, dimwit.

Are you against osha regulations for a safe workplace?
 
Most yes, it drives the cost of healthcare up so high many can't afford it. I already covered that. I can understand some careful regulation to protect 3rd parties. That's not what OSHA does, special interest gain power and drive up prices.
 
We all know that people are the same wherever we go. There's good and bad in everyone. We learn to live, when we learn to give each other what we need to survive, together, ali-i-i-ive.
 
Obfuscate said:
Yeah, the standard of living in the U.S. is not due to the innovation and advances of the free market it's from Government regulation. lol..
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its not an either/or proposition. Regulated capitalism is the only economic system that currently appears to work, on a nation-state scale.

And contrary to libertarians fascination with property rights, and the rights of capital, it also has to include protections and rights for labour.
 
No one says totally unregulated or unfettered free markets, other than opponents of free markets. Free markets and free trade are the best way so far created to improve the ordinary persons living standards. The Government has an important role, just a limited one. It wasn't under a bueracracy that the assembly line was created, or advances in medicines that have tripled humans life span. The idea if we didn't have OSHA and Minimum wage and high taxes to create government sponsered monopolies that we would be worse off is not reasonable to me. Plus who doesn't believe labor has a right to orginize? This is another myth opponents say because any freedom minded person believes people have rights to assemble in the workplace, the problem is when governmet gets involved to subsidize labor.
 
Obfuscate said:
No one says totally unregulated or unfettered free markets, other than opponents of free markets.
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No one gets bent out of shape over minimum wage laws, osha standards, or the undeniable fact that unions enables the middle class in america besides fascist free market zealots.
Free markets and free trade are the best way so far created to improve the ordinary persons living standards.
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But when we degrade the market value of humans through allowing slave labor nations to dominate all production, the ordinary person is either forced to become as slave himself, or become dependant on the state, or both.
The Government has an important role, just a limited one. It wasn't under a bueracracy that the assembly line was created, or advances in medicines that have tripled humans life span. The idea if we didn't have OSHA and Minimum wage and high taxes to create government sponsered monopolies that we would be worse off is not reasonable to me.
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The idea that OSHA and minimum wage create a monopoly is unreasonable.
Plus who doesn't believe labor has a right to orginize?
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Assholes.
This is another myth opponents say because any freedom minded person believes people have rights to assemble in the workplace, the problem is when governmet gets involved to subsidize labor.
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Our government is more corporate frienly than labor friendly, by far.
 
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I'm not in favor of giving corporations or labor unions special treatment. I'm not pro corporation or pro union; I'm pro consumer.
 
Obfuscate said:
I'm not in favor of giving corporations or labor unions special treatment. I'm not pro corporation or pro union; I'm pro consumer.
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So then you should realize the fake positive economic data is based on extreme consumer debt, and you should give a damn.
 
Yeah, we have a lot of debt, much of it is not good, we also have many assets that apreciate like housing {other than the last year}, infastructure, land ect. I always talk about debt as a bad thing especially when the Government does it because it affects us all not just individuals who made poor decisions. In reality the worse the debt gets in the long run the higher interest rates will get and will be harder to get debt. When that happens with the Government they just print the differance and we get inflation.
 
Obfuscate said:
No one says totally unregulated or unfettered free markets, other than opponents of free markets. Free markets and free trade are the best way so far created to improve the ordinary persons living standards. The Government has an important role, just a limited one. It wasn't under a bueracracy that the assembly line was created, or advances in medicines that have tripled humans life span. The idea if we didn't have OSHA and Minimum wage and high taxes to create government sponsered monopolies that we would be worse off is not reasonable to me. Plus who doesn't believe labor has a right to orginize? This is another myth opponents say because any freedom minded person believes people have rights to assemble in the workplace, the problem is when governmet gets involved to subsidize labor.
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I think minimum wage, the abolition of child labor, the 40 hour work week, pension protection laws, worker health and safety laws, and labor laws were all good and neccessary ideas. Ideas that reactionaries, conservatives, and the business community fought tooth and nail against, broadly speaking.
 
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