A better way is to elect somebody who promises to give them a seat at the "Table of Compromise" where they will help create the policy that will enrich them that people will call "National Healthcare".
Damn
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
Topspin
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I will take all the razzing people want to give on Hillary losing the nomination. I thought a strong frontrunner usually wins. (that was based on two googles). I am the novice here as far as political histroy goes. I agree with Obama/Edwards would clean the Repubs clocks.
Obama even won the woman vote. Hillary is in real trouble if she doesn't win big in NH. I don't think anybody would want her as VP.
Obama even won the woman vote. Hillary is in real trouble if she doesn't win big in NH. I don't think anybody would want her as VP.
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LOL, The US HAS HAD ONE OF THE FREEST ECONOMIES IN THE WORLD. Thanks for making my point of a freer economy is a better economy. Pure Dr Suess is trusting a politicians will act in the interest of the people over the interest of themselves.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Iowa.
You know, they said -- they said -- they said this day would never come.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: They said our sights were set too high.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come together around a common purpose. But, on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: You have done what the state of New Hampshire can do in five days.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: You have done what America can do in this new year, 2008.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: In lines that stretched around schools and churches in small towns and in big cities, you came together, as Democrats, Republicans, and independents, to stand up and say that we are one nation, we are one people, and our time for change has come.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CROWD: Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama!
OBAMA: You said the time has come to move beyond the bitterness and pettiness and anger that's consumed Washington...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... to end the political strategy that has been all about division, and instead make it about addition, to build a coalition for change that stretches through red states and blue states...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... because that's how we will win in November, and that's how we will finally meet the challenges that we face as a nation.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: We are choosing hope over fear.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: We're choosing unity over division and sending a powerful message that change is coming to America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CROWD: USA! USA! USA! USA!
OBAMA: You said the time has come to tell the lobbyists, who think their money and their influence speak louder than our voices, that they don't own this government. We do. And we are here to take it back.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: The time has come for a president who will be honest about the choices and the challenges we face, who will listen to you, and learn from you, even when we disagree, who won't just tell you what you want to hear, but what you need to know.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And, in New Hampshire, if you give me the same chance that Iowa did tonight, I will be that president for America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CROWD: Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I will be a president who finally makes health care affordable and available to every single American, the same way I expanded health care in Illinois, by...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... by bringing Democrats and Republicans together to get the job done.
I will be a president who ends the tax breaks for companies that ship our jobs overseas, and put a middle-class tax cuts into the pockets of working Americans, who deserve it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I will be a president who harnesses the ingenuity of farmers and scientists and entrepreneurs to free this nation from the tyranny of oil, once and for all.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And I will be a president who ends this war in Iraq and finally brings our troops home...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... who restores our moral standing, who understands that 9/11 is not a way to scare up votes, but a challenge that should unite America and the world against the common threats of the 21st century...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... common threats of terrorism and nuclear weapons, climate change and poverty, genocide and disease.
Tonight, we are one step closer to that vision of America because of what you did here in Iowa.
And, so, I would especially like to thank the organizers, and the precinct captains, the volunteers...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... and the staff, who made this all possible.
And while I'm at it on thank-yous, I think it makes sense for me to thank the love of my life, the rock of the Obama family, the closer on the campaign trail.
Give it up for Michelle Obama.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I know you didn't do this for me. You did this -- you did this because you believed so deeply in the most American of ideas, that, in the face of impossible odds, people who love this country can change it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I know this. I know this because, while I may be standing here tonight, I will never forget that my journey began on the streets of Chicago doing what so many of you have done for this campaign and all the campaigns here in Iowa, organizing and working and fighting to make people's lives just a little bit better.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I know how hard it is. It comes with little sleep, little pay and a lot of sacrifice. There are days of disappointment.
But, sometimes, just sometimes, there are nights like this...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... a night -- a night that, years from now, when we have made the changes we believe in, when more families can afford to see a doctor, when our children -- when Malia and Sasha and your children inherit a planet that's a little cleaner and safer, when the world sees America differently, and America sees itself as a nation less divided and more united, you will be able to look back with pride and say that this was the moment when it all began.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: This was the moment when the improbable beat what Washington always said was inevitable. This was the moment when we tore down barriers that have divided us for too long, when we rallied people of all parties and ages to a common cause; when we finally gave Americans who have never participated in politics a reason to stand up and to do so.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: This was the moment when we finally beat back the politics of fear and doubts and cynicism, the politics where we tear each other down, instead of lifting this country up. This was the moment.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Years from now, you will look back and you will say that this was the moment. This was the place where America remembered what it means to hope.
For many months, we have been teased, even derided, for talking about hope. But we always knew that hope is not blind optimism. It's not ignoring the enormity of the tasks ahead or the roadblocks that stand in our path. It's not sitting on the sidelines or shirking from a fight. Hope is that thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us if we have the courage to reach for it and to work for it and to fight for it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Hope is what I saw in the eyes of the young woman in Cedar Rapids who works the night shift after a full day of college, and still can't afford health care for a sister who's ill, a young woman who still believes that this country will give her the chance to live out her dreams.
Hope is what I heard in the voice of the New Hampshire woman who told me that she hasn't been able to breathe since her nephew left for Iraq, who still goes to bed each night praying for his safe return.
Hope is what led a band of colonists to rise up against an empire, what led the greatest of generations to free a continent and heal a nation, what led young women and young men to sit at lunch counters and brave fire hoses and march through Selma and Montgomery for freedom's cause.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Hope -- hope is what led me here today, with a father from Kenya, a mother from Kansas, and a story that could only happen in the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) OBAMA: Hope is the bedrock of this nation, the belief that our destiny will not be written for us, but by us, by all those men and women who are not content to settle for the world as it is, who have the courage to remake the world as it should be.
That is what we started here in Iowa, and that is the message we can now carry to New Hampshire and beyond...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... the same message we had when we were up and when we were down, the one that can change this country, brick by brick, block by block, callous hand by callous hand, that, together, ordinary people can do extraordinary things, because we are not a collection of red states and blue states. We are the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And, in this moment, in this election, we are ready to believe again.
Thank you, Iowa.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Iowa.
You know, they said -- they said -- they said this day would never come.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: They said our sights were set too high.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come together around a common purpose. But, on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: You have done what the state of New Hampshire can do in five days.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: You have done what America can do in this new year, 2008.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: In lines that stretched around schools and churches in small towns and in big cities, you came together, as Democrats, Republicans, and independents, to stand up and say that we are one nation, we are one people, and our time for change has come.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CROWD: Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama!
OBAMA: You said the time has come to move beyond the bitterness and pettiness and anger that's consumed Washington...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... to end the political strategy that has been all about division, and instead make it about addition, to build a coalition for change that stretches through red states and blue states...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... because that's how we will win in November, and that's how we will finally meet the challenges that we face as a nation.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: We are choosing hope over fear.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: We're choosing unity over division and sending a powerful message that change is coming to America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CROWD: USA! USA! USA! USA!
OBAMA: You said the time has come to tell the lobbyists, who think their money and their influence speak louder than our voices, that they don't own this government. We do. And we are here to take it back.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: The time has come for a president who will be honest about the choices and the challenges we face, who will listen to you, and learn from you, even when we disagree, who won't just tell you what you want to hear, but what you need to know.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And, in New Hampshire, if you give me the same chance that Iowa did tonight, I will be that president for America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CROWD: Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I will be a president who finally makes health care affordable and available to every single American, the same way I expanded health care in Illinois, by...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... by bringing Democrats and Republicans together to get the job done.
I will be a president who ends the tax breaks for companies that ship our jobs overseas, and put a middle-class tax cuts into the pockets of working Americans, who deserve it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I will be a president who harnesses the ingenuity of farmers and scientists and entrepreneurs to free this nation from the tyranny of oil, once and for all.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And I will be a president who ends this war in Iraq and finally brings our troops home...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... who restores our moral standing, who understands that 9/11 is not a way to scare up votes, but a challenge that should unite America and the world against the common threats of the 21st century...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... common threats of terrorism and nuclear weapons, climate change and poverty, genocide and disease.
Tonight, we are one step closer to that vision of America because of what you did here in Iowa.
And, so, I would especially like to thank the organizers, and the precinct captains, the volunteers...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... and the staff, who made this all possible.
And while I'm at it on thank-yous, I think it makes sense for me to thank the love of my life, the rock of the Obama family, the closer on the campaign trail.
Give it up for Michelle Obama.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I know you didn't do this for me. You did this -- you did this because you believed so deeply in the most American of ideas, that, in the face of impossible odds, people who love this country can change it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I know this. I know this because, while I may be standing here tonight, I will never forget that my journey began on the streets of Chicago doing what so many of you have done for this campaign and all the campaigns here in Iowa, organizing and working and fighting to make people's lives just a little bit better.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I know how hard it is. It comes with little sleep, little pay and a lot of sacrifice. There are days of disappointment.
But, sometimes, just sometimes, there are nights like this...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... a night -- a night that, years from now, when we have made the changes we believe in, when more families can afford to see a doctor, when our children -- when Malia and Sasha and your children inherit a planet that's a little cleaner and safer, when the world sees America differently, and America sees itself as a nation less divided and more united, you will be able to look back with pride and say that this was the moment when it all began.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: This was the moment when the improbable beat what Washington always said was inevitable. This was the moment when we tore down barriers that have divided us for too long, when we rallied people of all parties and ages to a common cause; when we finally gave Americans who have never participated in politics a reason to stand up and to do so.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: This was the moment when we finally beat back the politics of fear and doubts and cynicism, the politics where we tear each other down, instead of lifting this country up. This was the moment.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Years from now, you will look back and you will say that this was the moment. This was the place where America remembered what it means to hope.
For many months, we have been teased, even derided, for talking about hope. But we always knew that hope is not blind optimism. It's not ignoring the enormity of the tasks ahead or the roadblocks that stand in our path. It's not sitting on the sidelines or shirking from a fight. Hope is that thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us if we have the courage to reach for it and to work for it and to fight for it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Hope is what I saw in the eyes of the young woman in Cedar Rapids who works the night shift after a full day of college, and still can't afford health care for a sister who's ill, a young woman who still believes that this country will give her the chance to live out her dreams.
Hope is what I heard in the voice of the New Hampshire woman who told me that she hasn't been able to breathe since her nephew left for Iraq, who still goes to bed each night praying for his safe return.
Hope is what led a band of colonists to rise up against an empire, what led the greatest of generations to free a continent and heal a nation, what led young women and young men to sit at lunch counters and brave fire hoses and march through Selma and Montgomery for freedom's cause.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Hope -- hope is what led me here today, with a father from Kenya, a mother from Kansas, and a story that could only happen in the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) OBAMA: Hope is the bedrock of this nation, the belief that our destiny will not be written for us, but by us, by all those men and women who are not content to settle for the world as it is, who have the courage to remake the world as it should be.
That is what we started here in Iowa, and that is the message we can now carry to New Hampshire and beyond...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: ... the same message we had when we were up and when we were down, the one that can change this country, brick by brick, block by block, callous hand by callous hand, that, together, ordinary people can do extraordinary things, because we are not a collection of red states and blue states. We are the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And, in this moment, in this election, we are ready to believe again.
Thank you, Iowa.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I don't think you're necessarily wrong and you are most certainly asking the questions that will have to be asked of Obama and closely monitored throughout his administration.
I think Obama is a good place to start rebuilding the structure and nature of our government, but he will have to grow into what people like you and I expect. He's a better place to start than with Hillary who is already set in her ways and resistent to people persuasion.
We do indeed have a fight to the death on our hands, but at least with Obama we have someone who has the intelligence to properly discern and be swayed.
In his quick and sharp responses to John Howard of Australia and Tony Blair in the UK, I think they guy is a fighter who will give republicans all they can handle.
cawacko
Well-known member
It seems quite clear to me that over the past century the freer economies have provided the highest standards of living for its people.
Soviet Union and Eastern Europe - centrally planned economy which fell apart in shambles
Western Europe - as a whole we have seen growth rates slow
China - though they won't say it publicly they have finally opened up parts of their economy to the free markets and have been enjoying robust growth
India - still dogged by past socialism but they are making a move toward opening up their economy for entrepreneurs and the quality of life has improved for many
Latin America - Has dropped tremendously in comparison the U.S. and Europe in 2000 compared to 1900. Unstable governments led by populistist economic measures have continually hurt Latin American countries growth.
U.S. - strong growth throughout the 20th century and will continue into the 21st century as long as the freedom to take risks and be rewarded are still part of the American ideal.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
There is no such animal in existence called a totally free market and there never has nor will there ever be.
If the US has such a free economy .. what's your point?
What the US has is a mixed economy and surely you know the difference.
If you don't think politicians act in the interest of the people over themselves you are certainly free to believe that bullshit but it doesn't stand up to reason, truth, or history.
Please by all means, rest your faith in corporations or the Lord as you see fit, but government is neccesary and politicians are the ones we send to administer it.
evince
Truthmatters
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The point is the freer the economy the higher the standard of living.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2kTy7glZ9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2kTy7glZ9s
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
No .. the point is that government has a necessary and critical role in disciplining corporations and POLITICIANS are required to administer the government.
You can dream of another way of doing it all you want but it all comes down to the same truth.
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Give me an example other than breaking up an anti trust or illegal activity? Which every Libertarian believes that a Corporation needs penalties like individuals for law breaking.
I can give you the campain donations for both sides all day to prove my point.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Campaign donations are a fact of American government .. and one that quasi-libertarian Ron Paul wants to increase and remove all limitations.
OSHA requirements and worker safety
Child labor laws
Minimum wage
Anti-trust, pension, and monopoly laws
Are just a few of many restrictions, regulations, and oversight that has come from government to ensure we don't revisit the days of the robber barons.
To suggest that corporations can police themselves is ridiculous folly and perhaps you can demonstrate where a totally free market has existed or even why it should exist.
I hope you are right. I’m going to vote for him if he’s the nominee, and I would not do the same if Hillary was. I have some hope, but I am worried.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
We are going to be light-years ahead of where we are today.
We'll worry together, but work and hope for a better America.
cawacko
Well-known member
No one is arguing that there not be a government. What makes the U.S. so successful economically is that it has a stable government, strong individual property rights and the rule of law. The court system is obviously an integral part of the rule of law and part of the government. This is what many developing countries lack.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I don't disagree with you .. but out Achilles Heel is MONEY and how our government has been purchased.
Jefferson thought freedom fro corporations was a basic human right.
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Minimum Wage have always proven to be a bad policy that hurts low skilled workers most. Child labor laws only came about because free markets had already allowed a standard of living high enough to allow the fact that children didn't need to work so thier family could eat like they had to in the agricutural days and early in the industrial revolution. You mean OSHA laws that are bought by private interests and insure that the cost of quality care is so high that most disabled are get worse care {I worked for the handicap home in collage}. Monopoly laws I already covered and even Adam Smith stood for Anti Trust.
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Yes, the government has a role in Property rights, enforcing contracts, stop purposful fraud, anti trust, establishing copyrights and a few other basic issues. It's all the regulation and taxation that politicians create to help their self interest and the idea that the solution is more government rather than less is absurd.