Do You Think The Rich Should Be Taxed More?

[PoliTalker]

Hello Boris,

Then you eliminate unconstitutional Federal programs.

[In order to reduce the federal debt]

Such as?

Welfare, section 8 housing, Medicaid, etc. Those programs belong exclusively to the states.

I disagree. Keeping this as a federal program uses the strength of the nation to make these programs effective and spread the burden of supporting them among more payers.

Besides, Republicans would end up paying higher State taxes because it is well documented that money flows from Blue States to Red States through the federal government because Red States don't take care of their needy as well.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Shut your mouth, Frankie.

You know I am not going to do that, Boris.

In fact, I am going to thank you. You showed I was correct.

The "unconstitutional federal programs" meme, for you, essentially is code for: "programs that do not further enrich the already wealthy...or that do not further impoverish the already poor."

Okay. You are entitled to that "let them eat cake" attitude.

 

[Boris The Animal]

You know I am not going to do that, Boris.

In fact, I am going to thank you. You showed I was correct.

The "unconstitutional federal programs" meme, for you, essentially is code for: "programs that do not further enrich the already wealthy...or that do not further impoverish the already poor."

Okay. You are entitled to that "let them eat cake" attitude.

Hey asshole, who already pay more than 70-fucking-percent of all taxes? who are the ones who assume the most risk in business ventures, you know the ones that create the jobs in the first place? Oh, but I forgot, as a misguided Leftist asshole, you think a business' sole aim should be to provide wages and bennies. When in actuality, a business exists for one sole purpose only. PROFIT!!!!

 

[Boris The Animal]

Hello Boris,



[In order to reduce the federal debt]





I disagree. Keeping this as a federal program uses the strength of the nation to make these programs effective and spread the burden of supporting them among more payers.

Besides, Republicans would end up paying higher State taxes because it is well documented that money flows from Blue States to Red States through the federal government because Red States don't take care of their needy as well.

This is where you are sorely misguided. The proper Constitutional framework our founders envisioned, and I fully support, is a weak Federal Government and strong state/local governments. This is how it should be.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Hey asshole, who already pay more than 70-fucking-percent of all taxes? who are the ones who assume the most risk in business ventures, you know the ones that create the jobs in the first place? Oh, but I forgot, as a misguided Leftist asshole, you think a business' sole aim should be to provide wages and bennies. When in actuality, a business exists for one sole purpose only. PROFIT!!!!

Au contraire, my erudite colleague.

I agree with you..."a business exists for only one sole purpose only." (Although two "only's" a "one" and a "sole" might be considered by a person with a functioning brain to be overkill...

...non?

My point...EXACTLY.

I thank you again.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Boris,

The proper Constitutional framework our founders envisioned, and I fully support, is a weak Federal Government and strong state/local governments. This is how it should be.

I disagree with your interpretation of the Constitution. But let's say, for a moment, that we did as you suggest.

If the cost of government assistance is shifted from the federal government to States, then States are going to have to collect more taxes. Either way, the tax payers are going to have to pay for these programs or curtail/end them.

Since red States get more $ from federal taxes than blues States that means tax payers in red States will have to either pay more or kick the poor to the curb.

 

[Flash]

This is where you are sorely misguided. The proper Constitutional framework our founders envisioned, and I fully support, is a weak Federal Government and strong state/local governments. This is how it should be.

If they wanted a very weak central government and strong state governments they would have kept the Articles of Confederation. The point of the constitutional convention was to create a stronger central government than existed under the Articles. Those who favored a weaker central government, the Anti-Federalists, did not even participate in the convention because they opposed its purpose. But the founders did create a limited central government by fragmenting power as much as possible.

 

[Nordberg]

Hey asshole, who already pay more than 70-fucking-percent of all taxes? who are the ones who assume the most risk in business ventures, you know the ones that create the jobs in the first place? Oh, but I forgot, as a misguided Leftist asshole, you think a business' sole aim should be to provide wages and bennies. When in actuality, a business exists for one sole purpose only. PROFIT!!!!

Love it when brain dead talk about the rich paying the majority of taxes like it is unfair. You know when the wealthy pay a greater proportion of the total taxes, while getting tax cuts, that that just proves how much fucking money that have. The wealth distribution is so bad, that the wealthy paying a smaller percent of their wealth in taxes, it becomes a larger and larger portion of all that is collected. Your premise is merely evidence of the wealth gap.It is not a defense about the wealthy getting hosed.

 

[Flash]

Love it when brain dead talk about the rich paying the majority of taxes like it is unfair. You know when the wealthy pay a greater proportion of the total taxes, while getting tax cuts, that that just proves how much fucking money that have. The wealth distribution is so bad, that the wealthy paying a smaller percent of their wealth in taxes, it becomes a larger and larger portion of all that is collected. Your premise is merely evidence of the wealth gap.It is not a defense about the wealthy getting hosed.

The wealthy get the largest share of income and pay the largest share of taxes---exactly the way progressive taxation is supposed to work. They are the only group that pays a higher percentage of the taxes than their share of the income. Higher taxes do not reduce their percentage of the nation's income.

Based on their level of hostility some posters seem to think the purpose of taxation is to punish the wealthy. If wealth distribution is a problem we should work on getting training, education, etc. for lower income groups--not take it away from others. Many programs already exist to achieve that goal.

 

[Ross Dolan]

The wealthy get the largest share of income and pay the largest share of taxes---exactly the way progressive taxation is supposed to work. They are the only group that pays a higher percentage of the taxes than their share of the income. Higher taxes do not reduce their percentage of the nation's income.

Based on their level of hostility some posters seem to think the purpose of taxation is to punish the wealthy. If wealth distribution is a problem we should work on getting training, education, etc. for lower income groups--not take it away from others. Many programs already exist to achieve that goal.

Right!

We can train people who now clean toilets for a living to be brain surgeons...or rocket scientists.

Better yet, we can train them to be airline pilots...and offer free rides to people who think that is a reasonable solution to the problem being discussed here.

 

[Flash]

Right!

We can train people who now clean toilets for a living to be brain surgeons...or rocket scientists.

Better yet, we can train them to be airline pilots...and offer free rides to people who think that is a reasonable solution to the problem being discussed here.

Or, plumbers, pipefitters, plant processing operators, heating and air conditioning, brick masons, millwrights, vocational nurses, dental technicians.....

How would you help the toilet cleaners---take money away from the wealthy and give it to them? Great long-term solution which perpetuates that same pattern.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Or, plumbers, pipefitters, plant processing operators, heating and air conditioning, brick masons, millwrights, vocational nurses, dental technicians.....

How would you help the toilet cleaners---take money away from the wealthy and give it to them? Great long-term solution which perpetuates that same pattern.

It is NOT a zero sum game, Flash.

We can get the wealthy to pay more in taxes...and actually allow them to get richer.

What we have to do...WHAT IS ESSENTIAL...is to find a way for civilization to continue without people having to "earn a living"...because MOST people will not be able to do it...no matter how they are trained.

Human labor is becoming LESS and LESS valuable with each passing day.

If you cannot see that...you are choosing to be blind.

Not trying to bust your balls...just asking you to really take a look at things.

 

[Boris The Animal]

It is NOT a zero sum game, Flash.

We can get the wealthy to pay more in taxes...and actually allow them to get richer.

What we have to do...WHAT IS ESSENTIAL...is to find a way for civilization to continue without people having to "earn a living"...because MOST people will not be able to do it...no matter how they are trained.

Human labor is becoming LESS and LESS valuable with each passing day.

If you cannot see that...you are choosing to be blind.

Not trying to bust your balls...just asking you to really take a look at things.

Francine's impossible utopia of everyone sitting on their lazy asses collecting a government check rather than earning that living LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO!!!!!

 

[Ross Dolan]

Francine's impossible utopia of everyone sitting on their lazy asses collecting a government check rather than earning that living LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO!!!!!

I guess that is what I get for supposing I was speaking to a human...despite your moniker.

I really hope people like you get caught up in the labor value crap coming. And come it will.

 

[Flash]

It is NOT a zero sum game, Flash.

We can get the wealthy to pay more in taxes...and actually allow them to get richer.

What we have to do...WHAT IS ESSENTIAL...is to find a way for civilization to continue without people having to "earn a living"...because MOST people will not be able to do it...no matter how they are trained.

Human labor is becoming LESS and LESS valuable with each passing day.

If you cannot see that...you are choosing to be blind.

Not trying to bust your balls...just asking you to really take a look at things.

I realize it is not a zero sum game. That is why I said that money earned by the rich does not take it away from those at the bottom. If a plant worker making $70,000 has an IRA that has grown to $1-2 million by the time he retires, he did not take that money away from others although he increased income inequality.

If people do not have to earn a living there are no taxes for the government to worry about. Labor may be becoming less valuable but there are still many jobs which Americans will not do that require that labor. I think the workforce will evolve to take care of some of the problems you refer to.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I realize it is not a zero sum game. That is why I said that money earned by the rich does not take it away from those at the bottom. If a plant worker making $70,000 has an IRA that has grown to $1-2 million by the time he retires, he did not take that money away from others although he increased income inequality.

If people do not have to earn a living there are no taxes for the government to worry about. Labor may be becoming less valuable but there are still many jobs which Americans will not do that require that labor. I think the workforce will evolve to take care of some of the problems you refer to.

There is no way the workforce will evolve to take care of the problem I am discussing, Flash.

I am saying that the value of what humans can do...the value of human labor...is going down, down, down. There will come a time soon when the peon wages of third world countries will not be competitive with machines.

We truly need to revamp the system...all the systems of the world to take the new REALITY into account.

But for now, the point is that fixing it so that everyone has enough to eat...does not require rich people to eat less; everyone having enough clothing does not require rich people to have fewer clothes; everyone having shelter does not require rich people to have fewer homes; everyone have access to education does not mean rich people have to be uneducated...and so on.

We WILL make the transition to "no requirement to earn a living"...but I would like to see it be a peaceful transition...rather than a bloody one.

 

[Flash]

There is no way the workforce will evolve to take care of the problem I am discussing, Flash.

I am saying that the value of what humans can do...the value of human labor...is going down, down, down. There will come a time soon when the peon wages of third world countries will not be competitive with machines.

We truly need to revamp the system...all the systems of the world to take the new REALITY into account.

But for now, the point is that fixing it so that everyone has enough to eat...does not require rich people to eat less; everyone having enough clothing does not require rich people to have fewer clothes; everyone having shelter does not require rich people to have fewer homes; everyone have access to education does not mean rich people have to be uneducated...and so on.

We WILL make the transition to "no requirement to earn a living"...but I would like to see it be a peaceful transition...rather than a bloody one.

It doesn't sound like there will be rich people because none of us will have jobs. I don't think a bloody transition will accomplish anything as complicated as you are suggesting. It would accomplish much less than an evolving economy would.

 

[Ross Dolan]

It doesn't sound like there will be rich people because none of us will have jobs.

I suspect there will always be the rich. ALWAYS. Some people are simply more clever than others...and DESERVE to be richer. The person who invented the wheel; who first discovered the value of tamed fire; who devised the bow and arrow...deserved to be the richest people on Earth at their time.

I don't think a bloody transition will accomplish anything as complicated as you are suggesting. It would accomplish much less than an evolving economy would.

You may well be correct, Flash. That same thing may have been true in late 18th century France...and early 20th century Russia...

...BUT sometimes the rich do not want to cooperate...and the bloody path, while less accomplishing, becomes the one preferred.

I want to see it be peaceful...and I want to see capitalism (albeit modified) be at the fore. I want that very much.

But I want to see the problem handled before it becomes critical. If it becomes critical first...blood will flow in ways that will make the "France and Russia" things look like playground games.

LAST THOUGHT: We may already be at critical mass. Americans are willing to see the danger of third world wages on employment and labor costs here...but seem unwilling to take into account that our technology will soon make "third world wages" seem prohibitively high.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Flash,

The wealthy get the largest share of income and pay the largest share of taxes---exactly the way progressive taxation is supposed to work. They are the only group that pays a higher percentage of the taxes than their share of the income. Higher taxes do not reduce their percentage of the nation's income.

Based on their level of hostility some posters seem to think the purpose of taxation is to punish the wealthy.

I know, right? That's because they are only thinking of their own situation. If they had any true loyalty to the United States of America they would weigh national concerns against their own. Taxation is not, and never was, about what is fair. It is about how to pay for what the nation has decided to spend money on.

If wealth distribution is a problem we should work on getting training, education, etc. for lower income groups--not take it away from others. Many programs already exist to achieve that goal.

Bernie would have pushed for free college which would go a long way toward helping people do better. But there is another problem. Everybody can't be CEO. There has to be positions at the low end of the spectrum. The jobs they do still have to get done. Somebody has to work those jobs. The people working those jobs are going to be strapped the way things are now. We have to change.

Raising the minimum wage to a livable wage for a small family.

Create a maximum ratio of executive pay to average worker pay. That way, if the company does well, and the CEO thinks he needs a raise, he has to raise every worker in the company proportionally. That's the way it should be. The workers create the wealth so they deserve a share.

Perhaps some of these large wealth extraction machines should be converted into worker cooperatives.

Hint: A 'wealth extraction machine' is a large corporation which sucks wealth out of workers and consumers and funnels it into the bank accounts of a few investors.

 

[Flash]

Hello Flash,


I know, right? That's because they are only thinking of their own situation. If they had any true loyalty to the United States of America they would weigh national concerns against their own. Taxation is not, and never was, about what is fair. It is about how to pay for what the nation has decided to spend money on.



Bernie would have pushed for free college which would go a long way toward helping people do better. But there is another problem. Everybody can't be CEO. There has to be positions at the low end of the spectrum. The jobs they do still have to get done. Somebody has to work those jobs. The people working those jobs are going to be strapped the way things are now. We have to change.

Raising the minimum wage to a livable wage for a small family.

Create a maximum ratio of executive pay to average worker pay. That way, if the company does well, and the CEO thinks he needs a raise, he has to raise every worker in the company proportionally. That's the way it should be. The workers create the wealth so they deserve a share.

Perhaps some of these large wealth extraction machines should be converted into worker cooperatives.

Hint: A 'wealth extraction machine' is a large corporation which sucks wealth out of workers and consumers and funnels it into the bank accounts of a few investors.

What percent of all federal income taxes do you think would be fair for the top 0.1% to pay? (You can set their tax rate based on that amount).