Does anybody remember that death estimate....

Darla said:
Um, you probably want to be careful Damo. I know you are trying to pass this bs number off in a sad attempt to justify something, what it might be I neither know nor care, and I also know that a lot of your comments on this thread are directed at me.

But his daughter is in Iraq. So before you attempt to slander anti-war people by claiming they have called the troops murderers, you probably want to stop and think who you are talking to.

I really don’t give a fuck what you say about me, for the record.

I see that we are going into Iran to murder God only knows how many more, and any abitlity I had developed to get along with cons over the past several years is fading fast.

But my disgust and contempt at the miniscule value they place on the human lives of “others”, is coming back stronger than ever.

I would never defend myself against your charges because Damo…I don’t give a fuck. I know who I’m right with. You worry about who you’re right with. I think you have a lot of worrying to do, but I don’t care.
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You are such a fraud darla...you have done absolutley nothing for your country...you never served not even the 'Peace Corps' Get out in the real world before you comment on what vets or anyone else has to say based on experience vs book learning et al...give it a rest girlie!
 
Damocles said:
However, the World Health Organization is unlikely to be Bushists. Which is the point I was making.

There is no way that Bush has made himself all lovey-dovey with them.

And lastly, I mentioned my contempt for the war itself, what I promote here is the idea that the soldiers themselves are worthy of a bit more respect than what they get.

I have heard how they just randomly drop bombs and easily just "fly away" as if they are unhuman. It isn't true. I can describe many times that I have heard their actions called "murder" (again in the context that Bush was a murderer for their more direct action, as if it never associates to the people who actually do rather than order).
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Umm Bush is a murderer, the troops except for a few dozen are not.
 
uscitizen said:
Umm Bush is a murderer, the troops except for a few dozen are not.
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I agree.

I just would like people to think before they speak, especially basing their numbers off a study done by Soros.

How many times have you heard that it was "easy" for them to just bomb and fly away? That they don't even "think" of what was done because it's from the sky?

I think the WHO study's numbers are low. If they aren't I am AMAZED at the job our guys have done. It is nearly inconceivable. However it was constantly inconceivable that our guys purposefully shot up kids and thought nothing of it, as well.
 
Yeah it was a mess I was against the war before nam, during nam, called a baby murderer after, etc....
And I had no real choice in the matter....that part of my life just plain sucked.
 
Originally Posted by Cypress

This should be the argument Bush uses when Satan is deciding which circle of hell to send him to:

"I was only directly responsible for 40,000 deaths! The rest where caused by a civil war that no one could have predicted!"
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Damocles said:
Amazingly, you guys set that bar so low through expectations....

Running around saying that we "killed hundreds of thousands of children" as I have seen on this board certainly doesn't make the reality seem better... does it?

However, this thread wasn't about Bush being right, it was about how we have demonized a group of people.

We have spoken how they "just follow orders" how they are criminals who have "murdered" hundreds of thousands of people.... (while pretending that using the word "murder" is only for Bush, it is they who do the deed.)

How amazingly "rare" that Cypress would miss the point of the thread.... :rolleyes:
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I have no idea what you're talking about.

I've never "ran around" or made a distinction between the age, gender, or ethnicity of the dead people in Iraq. And I've never broadly claimed that the US Army are murderers and baby killers. I don't care if the dead are civilians, police, fighters, or coalition soldiers. They all have mothers, fathers, brothers, children. And they all got caught up in an immoral war, started by a corrupt and criminal president.

All I know is that this war has killed somewhere between 200,000 and a million people. Depending on different scientific estimates which use different methologies and ways of counting the dead. It doesn't matter to me if you're more comfortable promoting the low ball number. Any number you pick, is a demonstration of one of the most horrific, and UNNECCESSARY losses of life in modern times. And it is largely - directly and indirectly - because of the man you helped elect in 2000.
 
cypress this is typical right wing behaviour as the election gets closer. just wait till about july, dano will probably be back threatening to get us fired.
 
uscitizen said:
Yeah it was a mess I was against the war before nam, during nam, called a baby murderer after, etc....
And I had no real choice in the matter....that part of my life just plain sucked.
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Yeah, it reeks. And I don't like my friends worked over like that. The soldier's part in the social contract is an extremely important one.
 
Cypress said:
I have no idea what you're talking about.

I've never "ran around" or made a distinction between the age, gender, or ethnicity of the dead people in Iraq. And I've never broadly claimed that the US Army are murderers and baby killers. I don't care if the dead are civilians, police, fighters, or coalition soldiers. They all have mothers, fathers, brothers, children. And they all got caught up in an immoral war, started by a corrupt and criminal president.

All I know is that this war has killed somewhere between 200,000 and a million people. Depending on different scientific estimates which use different methologies and ways of counting the dead. It doesn't matter to me if you're more comfortable promoting the low ball number. Any number you pick, is a demonstration of one of the most horrific, and UNNECCESSARY losses of life in modern times. And it is largely - directly and indirectly - because of the man you helped elect in 2000.
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No, but you ignored my post and attempted to make it about Bush, which I was specifically trying to avoid while speaking about the soldiers. I am far more comfortable with a study done by the World Health Organization than I am one paid for by Soros.

However, my point was that the service members are not automotons unable to see the humanity of their action. They are not directly targeting civilians as I have seen suggested on the site.

When I say, "As I have seen on this board" it does not equate to saying, "As I have seen you personally say on this board". I was explaining my original post that you ignored to post about Bush, whom I castigated in the original post for starting unnecessary wars.
 
Cypress said:
This should be the argument Bush uses when Satan is deciding which circle of hell to send him to:

"I was only directly responsible for 40,000 deaths! The rest where caused by a civil war that no one could have predicted!"
Click to expand...

bravo cypress! bravo!!!
 
Damocles said:
They are not directly targeting civilians as I have seen suggested on the site.
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when we sent the cruise missile into the restaurant in an attempt to take out Saddam at the very onset of the war, do you think we were not deliberately targeting innocent civilians, or are you suggesting that, the mere act of actually dining in the same restaurant as Saddam was supposed to have been dining categorically removed that innocence? I certainly don't think that our military has gone out of their way to target civilians, but they certainly have not let a little "collateral damage" stand in their way either...and, at some level, they all are just brown skinned, ragheaded monkeys anyway, aren't they? ;)
 
Darla said:
Um, you probably want to be careful Damo. I know you are trying to pass this bs number off in a sad attempt to justify something, what it might be I neither know nor care, and I also know that a lot of your comments on this thread are directed at me.

But his daughter is in Iraq. So before you attempt to slander anti-war people by claiming they have called the troops murderers, you probably want to stop and think who you are talking to.

I really don’t give a fuck what you say about me, for the record.

I see that we are going into Iran to murder God only knows how many more, and any abitlity I had developed to get along with cons over the past several years is fading fast.

But my disgust and contempt at the miniscule value they place on the human lives of “others”, is coming back stronger than ever.

I would never defend myself against your charges because Damo…I don’t give a fuck. I know who I’m right with. You worry about who you’re right with. I think you have a lot of worrying to do, but I don’t care.
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We got to page two before Darla tried to suck BAC's cock again.
 
gonzojournals said:
Are we comparing this "monster" US to the real world or to some utopia that doesn't exist?
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Just to what we claimed to be.
Whan have we ever had about the same number of uncontrolled mercenaries in a war as we have troops ?
when did we openly endorse torture ?
when did we try to force nations of the world to give us an exemption on war crimes ?
If we are truely america why would we need exemptions from war crimes ?
 
Whan have we ever had about the same number of uncontrolled mercenaries in a war as we have troops ?
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Please, enlighten me as to why mercenaries are inherently evil, then tell me how you know they are "uncontrolled".

when did we openly endorse torture ?
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So the torture we have engaged in during past presidencies is fine, as long as it is an open secret?

when did we try to force nations of the world to give us an exemption on war crimes ?
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What war crimes did we commit? How did we force the world to give an exemption? Who decides there are crimes in war? Who says what is and isn't a crime?

If we are truely america why would we need exemptions from war crimes ?
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Epitome of American arrogance-- you make the assumption that America must be good. I make the assumption that it is my country, and through that assumption decide that I would rather America achieve success than the rest of the world be happy with our conduct.
 
"Please, enlighten me as to why mercenaries are inherently evil, then tell me how you know they are "uncontrolled"."

they were not regulated or had any oversight. read up on blackwater you might learn something.

"So the torture we have engaged in during past presidencies is fine, as long as it is an open secret?"

Nope but the childish parnks and ignoring of abughirab was baaad and far below our stated standards of conduct.

"What war crimes did we commit? How did we force the world to give an exemption? Who decides there are crimes in war? Who says what is and isn't a crime?"

Umm the world court or somesuch same as for the rest of the civilized world. and we cut off aid to countries that would not sign up to make us exempt from war crimes.

"Epitome of American arrogance-- you make the assumption that America must be good. I make the assumption that it is my country, and through that assumption decide that I would rather America achieve success than the rest of the world be happy with our conduct."

well that explains your avitar and pic....
'
 
uscitizen said:
they were not regulated or had any oversight. read up on blackwater you might learn something.
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All this tells me is that you lack the ability to relate the situation to others, which probably means you rely on someone else to give you your opinions.


Nope but the childish parnks and ignoring of abughirab was baaad and far below our stated standards of conduct.
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That dodges the question. We have been torturing for years and years, yet for some reason it is only now that it has lowered our character.



Umm the world court or somesuch same as for the rest of the civilized world. and we cut off aid to countries that would not sign up to make us exempt from war crimes.
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Oh, you mean that World Court that we AREN'T MEMBERS OF? That World Court? The one that we encouraged to be created but never joined, thus never allowing it to have authority over us? I know you aren't referring to that World Court that has no jurisdiction over this country, since you couldn't be so stupid as to argue about the World Court without knowing that we aren't members.

"Epitome of American arrogance-- you make the assumption that America must be good. I make the assumption that it is my country, and through that assumption decide that I would rather America achieve success than the rest of the world be happy with our conduct."

well that explains your avitar and pic....
'
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Well I just want to know what Golden Age of America was there that convinced everyone that our shit doesn't stink.
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Darla said:
You really wonder what kind of mental and moral vegetable you’d have to be in order to even swallow this swill to begin with, I know.

Well you know, we’ve got a war on Iran to rev up for, we can’t have people, most especially ourselves, believing we and they have murdered untold numbers. That could take the shine off the new and improved war! 25% less air. You get more war for your money, so get in line to get your war on, today
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you are correct. The World Health Organization is totally swill. Everything the do is swill. Lets get George Soros in there to straighten them out.
 
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