Does anyone agree with the $700 bailout?

[Kamala Trump]

I trust him because I have known him long enough to do so. He works in investment and his knowledge is coming out in his points.
That doesn't not mean that he COULD be wrong as anyone can be, hence why I'd like to see numbers and see for myself.

He is not an idiot and throwing out those insults to just everyone ensures that no one takes you seriously...even when you make good points.

He hasn't explained shit. He has yet to explain how bad assets will "make the people money".

 

[Cancel3]

Returning to barter would actually disempower the rich. The ultra rich have much more in paper assets than they do in homes. They have so much paper they don;t have time enough in the world to turn it all into tangibles for a barter economy. A barter economy is more an equalizer than anything else. It;s a great idea.

Yeah, it would bring a lot of the rich donw a few notches. But not to poverty.

And it would screw the poor totally.

A poor person has only their labor to trade. So when a man needs to feed his family or pay for medical care, he can only barter with his FUTURE labor. So he gets medical care and then has to work off his debt in labor. Much like slavery. If he needs more he has to push his debt higher and higher.

And the teachers are not going to teach the poor kids for free. So they have no education, and therefore, no way out of poverty. So you create the next generation of indentured servants.

And the doctor can name his price. If your loved ones are sick or injured, you'll agree to almost anything to get them taken care of.

A pure barter system would be a disastor. And if you had a government involved, it would create the same thing we have now except with indentured servants as collateral.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Why is it a mistake?

If the Treasury MAKES money off this deal for the taxpayers... how is that a mistake?

Allowing the system to collapse entirely is not an option.

How do bad assets become more valuable? You fucking hack.

We can go to barter system and investment fuckheads like you will actually have to work for a living. Give it a try. It's refreshing.

Another benefit is the government cannot fund an army to enslave us in adnvance and then force us to work to pay for everything.

 

[Cancel3]

How do bad assets become more valuable? You fucking hack.

We can go to barter system and investment fuckheads like you will actually have to work for a living. Give it a try. It's refreshing.

Another benefit is the government cannot fund an army to enslave us in adnvance and then force us to work to pay for everything.

Ok retread, try explaining how a poor person is going to do anything but starve or become a slave in a total barter system?

Also, explain how a foreclosure means that a house is worthless forever?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I already have, you take back Frannie and Freddie only because they own like 1/2 the Mortgages and they were always Government backed. You sell them to private banks for what you can get. Stop the GSE nonsense altogether. You don't do a socialist bailout of the whole economy that will only end up delaying the inevidible and further destroy the dollar which will create a much greater problem. We need to be patient and take our medicine {recession} like we did in the early 80's that cleansed the economy and set up the greatest boom in the history of man. This plan is Socialist and Criminal all in one.

No, actually you haven't. Saying... 'sell fannie and freddie' is not an option... unless you want to provide ONE example of WHO can afford to buy it at this point?????

This does not 'delay the inevitable' and we are not facing a simple recession. Yes, it will deflate the dollar and spark inflation in the short term. THAT is the medicine we have to take.

If no one can get loans, if the banks will not even loan money to each other, if lines of credit are being tightened... you are going to force far worse than a recession if you don't do something to loosen credit.

No one is advocating the free for all credit environment that we saw in 2001-2005. But when people and companies with GOOD credit cannot even find capital, we have a friggin problem. Sitting on our ass and trying to 'ride this out' is NOT a solution.

We can curb the dollar decline in a year by raising rates to fight inflation.

 

[Damocles]

How do bad assets become more valuable? You fucking hack.

We can go to barter system and investment fuckheads like you will actually have to work for a living. Give it a try. It's refreshing.

Another benefit is the government cannot fund an army to enslave us in adnvance and then force us to work to pay for everything.

He's explained several times. You just keep repeating that he hasn't like Bush trying to sell Iraq=War on Terror. Returning to subsistence farming and barter is going back in time by centuries and not beneficial to an argument based in reality.

 

[Obfuscate]

How do bad assets become more valuable? You fucking hack.
.

I'm sure these homeowners that bought these bad assets are keeping them in GREAT FUCKING shape and they are fixing them up and making them much more valuable. LOL. Or they are trashing them and letting them go to shit and new owners have to put in tens of thousands just to get them back to livable conditions. I see that shit daily.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

SF, which generation is paying for Iraq?

LMAO.... exactly.... so why do you want to increase their debt any more?

Bush screwing the pooch, does not justify a continuation of his policies.

Unless you like what Bush has done???

 

[evince]

Land is one thing they can not make any more of.

People need to think about just what is being bought here.

 

[uscitizen]

my stance. Take care of fannie and freddie we have an ogligation to them. Then split em up into regional entities. That way they can respond better to the market conditions in their area. And also they will not be too big to fail.

The rest are on their own.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Asshat and Obfuscate.... do try to pay attention.....

If you buy 100 homes at 30 cents on the dollar ... what percent of those 100 homes have to pay off their mortgages for you to get your money back? The answer... 30%.

You could sell each of those 100 homes for 30 cents on the dollar and get your money back.

The Fed could refi those loans at low rates to help those people keep their homes. In which case, you would still only need 30% of the assets to be paid off in order to break even.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Yeah, it would bring a lot of the rich donw a few notches. But not to poverty.


And it would screw the poor totally.

No it wouldn't. Jobs only disappear when you try to keep making the fiat sytem work. Depression is strictly a monetary phenomenon.

A poor person has only their labor to trade. So when a man needs to feed his family or pay for medical care, he can only barter with his FUTURE labor. So he gets medical care and then has to work off his debt in labor. Much like slavery. If he needs more he has to push his debt higher and higher.

Doctors would accept labor. Especially if paper money is nonexistant or worth nothing.

And the teachers are not going to teach the poor kids for free. So they have no education, and therefore, no way out of poverty. So you create the next generation of indentured servants.

But they will teach for other items of value, or labor. You're still viewing it from inside the context of fiat sytem.

And the doctor can name his price. If your loved ones are sick or injured, you'll agree to almost anything to get them taken care of.

A pure barter system would be a disastor. And if you had a government involved, it would create the same thing we have now except with indentured servants as collateral.

It would not be a disaster. all your examples are looking at it from inside the context of a fiat system. Get smarter please.

 

[Kamala Trump]

I know it's scary for middle manager shitheads like you, who rely on the capital hierarchy for your authority, instead of knowledge or skills. You will grow as a person.

 

[Cancel7]

LMAO.... exactly.... so why do you want to increase their debt any more?

Bush screwing the pooch, does not justify a continuation of his policies.

Unless you like what Bush has done???

Ahhh.

So we CAN increase the debt and pass it on to future generations if, it's for:

1) War.

2) Bailing out Billionaires

3) Extending tax cuts to billionaires.

Got it, thanks! I was hoping to get it in writing, but didnt' think you'd be stupid enough? My bad! LOL

 

[Obfuscate]

No, actually you haven't. Saying... 'sell fannie and freddie' is not an option... unless you want to provide ONE example of WHO can afford to buy it at this point?????

This does not 'delay the inevitable' and we are not facing a simple recession. Yes, it will deflate the dollar and spark inflation in the short term. THAT is the medicine we have to take.

If no one can get loans, if the banks will not even loan money to each other, if lines of credit are being tightened... you are going to force far worse than a recession if you don't do something to loosen credit.

No one is advocating the free for all credit environment that we saw in 2001-2005. But when people and companies with GOOD credit cannot even find capital, we have a friggin problem. Sitting on our ass and trying to 'ride this out' is NOT a solution.

We can curb the dollar decline in a year by raising rates to fight inflation.

Man are you stupid. The interest rate is 3% points BELOW inflation and now we're printing $700 billion to add to the deficit. Raising rates won't help people lend either so you'r saying putting us in a catch 22 box is good. No way, we need to take our medicine like the early 80's. Also, you are advocating promoting this flawed buisiness model by keeping these companies that should have failed alive and keeping GSE's that will back bad loans. I'd say half the loans we currently sell are FHA loans now. I'm sure these are great borrowers and will be good investments like they were in the past.

Plenty of investors will but Fannies and Freddie loans. I sell REO loans for our bank and there are lots of buyers. Investers are buying still at 50 cents on the dollar, and our bank doesn't even deal with foriegn investments banks. Just local investors.

No one could get credit easy in the early 80's either. I suppose that was a bad move when Volcker purposly raised rates then?

I can't believe Republicans now agree with socialism. Disgraceful. I'd ratherbe short term poor than a fucking disgraceful socialist.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Ahhh.

So we CAN increase the debt and pass it on to future generations if, it's for:

1) War.

2) Bailing out Billionaires

3) Extending tax cuts to billionaires.

Got it, thanks! I was hoping to get it in writing, but didnt' think you'd be stupid enough? My bad! LOL

Darla just gave sf a pearl necklace.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I'm sure these homeowners that bought these bad assets are keeping them in GREAT FUCKING shape and they are fixing them up and making them much more valuable. LOL. Or they are trashing them and letting them go to shit and new owners have to put in tens of thousands just to get them back to livable conditions. I see that shit daily.

Say you have a $300k dollar home that gets foreclosed upon. Say the previous owner did indeed trash it. If the government buys that loan for 30 cents on the dollar.... what price do they need to get for the home to break even????

Answer... $90k. So are you telling me that people wouldn't put even $100k into the home to fix it up? If they buy it for $90k and put $100k into fixing it up... they have $190k invested in what used to price as a $300k home. Assume further that the real estate value declined by 30%. That means they invested $190k in a home that is now worth $210k.

Even in this worst case... the government gets its money back.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Say you have a $300k dollar home that gets foreclosed upon. Say the previous owner did indeed trash it. If the government buys that loan for 30 cents on the dollar.... what price do they need to get for the home to break even????

Answer... $90k. So are you telling me that people wouldn't put even $100k into the home to fix it up? If they buy it for $90k and put $100k into fixing it up... they have $190k invested in what used to price as a $300k home. Assume further that the real estate value declined by 30%. That means they invested $190k in a home that is now worth $210k.

Even in this worst case... the government gets its money back.

So people will still lose their homes and the government will make money along with the bailed out corps? Is that the plan you're selling?

How does any of this stop foreclosure? This is just big business insulating themselves from their mistakes and actually does nothing for main street.

 

[Cancel7]

Please God no one tell me what a pearl necklace is, I will pay money?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Man are you stupid. The interest rate is 3% points BELOW inflation and now we're printing $700 billion to add to the deficit. Raising rates won't help people lend either so you'r saying putting us in a catch 22 box is good. No way, we need to take our medicine like the early 80's. Also, you are advocating promoting this flawed buisiness model by keeping these companies that should have failed alive and keeping GSE's that will back bad loans. I'd say half the loans we currently sell are FHA loans now. I'm sure these are great borrowers and will be good investments like they were in the past.

Plenty of investors will but Fannies and Freddie loans. I sell REO loans for our bank and there are lots of buyers. Investers are buying still at 50 cents on the dollar, and our bank doesn't even deal with foriegn investments banks. Just local investors.

No one could get credit easy in the early 80's either. I suppose that was a bad move when Volcker purposly raised rates then?

I can't believe Republicans now agree with socialism. Disgraceful. I'd ratherbe short term poor than a fucking disgraceful socialist.

You really need to pay attention....

AS I STATED.....

1) Yes, this will cause inflation to spike over the next year

2) Yes, it will suck, but THAT is the bullet we have to bite right now

3) Sitting back and 'taking our medicine' in your scenario will be FAR WORSE.

4) If they are swapping debt FOR EQUITY... the shareholders (the OWNERS) of the businesses are going to be the ones that LOSE. AS IT SHOULD BE. THIS DOES NOT PROMOTE A CONTINUATION OF BAD BUSINESS. It punishes those that are responsible.

5) Since this deal will BENEFIT taxpayers and recoup MORE than the $700b.... it will have net effect of LOWERING our national debt. It will eventually STRENGTHEN the dollar. Not in the short term, but as they sell off the assets and unwind the mess.

6) The equity postions the Treasury gets will INCREASE in value fairly quickly as the banks etc.. will have clean balance sheets and investors will flock back into the sector. The Treasury can then sell the equity stakes for a gain.

7) The debt positons will easily pay for themselves. As I demonstrated in my previous post.