Education

Chapdog said:
im an analyst. I can have the same analyst job title at hundreds of different companies that vary in roles and responsibilities similar to a music teacher versus and English teacher. I am paid based on performance. Performance is specific to my role.. not grading me versus all the other analysts in my state.

usually the way it works is your graded 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. 3 being meets requirements, 4 exceeds, 2, partially meets... etc. (a review) its all subjective. they try to categorize it as much as they can and in various ways.
there is a compensation raise pool each year and those that get better reviews get a higher percent of the raise.

There is no union for analysts. Why cant teachers have same kind of grading system?
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Who determines what the requirements are? Who judges whether the teacher meets or exceeds? And when every classroom is different and every child in that classroom is different how do you judge that objectively?
 
Chapdog said:
im an analyst. I can have the same analyst job title at hundreds of different companies that vary in roles and responsibilities similar to a music teacher versus and English teacher. I am paid based on performance. Performance is specific to my role.. not grading me versus all the other analysts in my state.

usually the way it works is your graded 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. 3 being meets requirements, 4 exceeds, 2, partially meets... etc. (a review) its all subjective. they try to categorize it as much as they can and in various ways.
there is a compensation raise pool each year and those that get better reviews get a higher percent of the raise.

There is no union for analysts. Why cant teachers have same kind of grading system?
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BTW teachers do have an evaluation period and the grading system is similar to that, however it does nothing but act as a tool to rid of the ones who shouldn't be teaching to begin with. Basing pay on this, though, would be a logistical nightmare. There is no objective way to do it.
 
TexasMeg said:
Who determines what the requirements are? Who judges whether the teacher meets or exceeds? And when every classroom is different and every child in that classroom is different how do you judge that objectively?
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your boss. and yes i realize all classrooms are different.. but so aren't all rolls in a corporation. my boss has an analyst, project managers, technical writers, developers, secretaries.. how does he determine?
 
TexasMeg said:
BTW teachers do have an evaluation period and the grading system is similar to that, however it does nothing but act as a tool to rid of the ones who shouldn't be teaching to begin with. Basing pay on this, though, would be a logistical nightmare. There is no objective way to do it.
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Thats the difference between union and govt jobs when you get paid regardless of your grading.. and the rest of the world where its all subjective.
 
Chapdog said:
your boss. and yes i realize all classrooms are different.. but so aren't all rolls in a corporation. my boss has an analyst, project managers, technical writers, developers, secretaries.. how does he determine?
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Educational environments are completely different than corporate ones. It is quite possible for the "boss" not to have one clue about the subject matter a teacher is teaching the child, much less how to determine whether they are doing an acceptable or exemplary job of it.
 
TexasMeg said:
Educational environments are completely different than corporate ones. It is quite possible for the "boss" not to have one clue about the subject matter a teacher is teaching the child, much less how to determine whether they are doing an acceptable or exemplary job of it.
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In the corporate world its also possible for a big boss to have no clue all the technical work an analyst on a day-to-day basis does but the boss knows what ultimately is expected at the end of the day and the overall quality of the work.
 
believe me i have had bosses that are CFO's and have no clue what so ever what i do daily. HOWEVER.. i do think that the principal or head of a department at a school should be supervising.

Who gives reviews? who do you tell when your sick.. etc
 
Why pay our teachers for shit.

They are the biggest part of our education system and we pay them as if they dont matter.

Then we make them buy supplies for the kids out of their own slaries.

Then they are told by people on the right that they are worthless.
 
Topspin said:
rstringtur, you may be the dumbest hack on the board
I higher caliber of application may help somewhat. BHAHAHAHHAH!!!
what kind of shit job do you do if your not embarrassed to say?
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I have been saying base pay and a more accurate term would be starting pay, so sorry for confusion on that if that is the source of your dumbass responses.

Quality of applicants can only be judged based on resume. Most of these folks will have little to no work experience on entry. So you will get a better looking education credentials from applicants by raising starting pay. That does not tell you automatically who will perform. And the fact is that performance is going to be conditioned by the employer. If the employer fails to reward and punish based on performance and instead simply gives out raises on seniority, performance of all will suffer.

We have govone er my work and education before, many times. The fact that I have to keep restating it shows what a fucking retard you are.

I am a programmer. Right now I am specialized in EDI, HL7 and accounting systems. I have BS degrees in Accounting and CIS, both with honors. I also hold many professional certs and about twelve years of experience in my career.
 
cawacko said:
In the corporate world its also possible for a big boss to have no clue all the technical work an analyst on a day-to-day basis does but the boss knows what ultimately is expected at the end of the day and the overall quality of the work.
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That may be the case, but in order to grade these teachers there would have to be so many different scales for the different classrooms. There are some things that are easy to grade...professionalism, organization, classroom management. Beyond that, however, it's virtually impossible because the children learn at different levels and classrooms progress at different speeds.
 
Desh said:
Why pay our teachers for shit.

They are the biggest part of our education system and we pay them as if they dont matter.

Then we make them buy supplies for the kids out of their own slaries.

Then they are told by people on the right that they are worthless.
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$40 an hour isn't shit... and i buy crap all the time for my job. Think of a nurse - makes like $35 an hour and has to buy scrubs, stethoscope, nurse insurance.
 
Desh said:
Why pay our teachers for shit.

They are the biggest part of our education system and we pay them as if they dont matter.

Then we make them buy supplies for the kids out of their own slaries.

Then they are told by people on the right that they are worthless.
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That is such a load of crap Desh you are unbelievable. How does the right tell teachers they are worthless? Oh you mean you want accountability (like Obama said last night)? Oh how evil.

I thought WRL was the most partisan on this board. You have passed him. Congratulations.
 
cawacko said:
In the corporate world its also possible for a big boss to have no clue all the technical work an analyst on a day-to-day basis does but the boss knows what ultimately is expected at the end of the day and the overall quality of the work.
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Yeah I have had bosses that I could easily confuse with jargon. Even the best bosses I have had still were in the dark alot.

At the college I went to, we as students reviewed the teachers. Why not do the same with kids and parents. That could be part of the review process, anyway.
 
Chapdog said:
$40 an hour isn't shit... and i buy crap all the time for my job. Think of a nurse - makes like $35 an hour and has to buy scrubs, stethoscope, nurse insurance.
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My first year in my previous job I spent 1k of my own money...not on supplies but actual teaching materials and supplemental teaching tools. Being an elective teacher, I saw 500 students throughout the week. My budget for teaching material was $500....$1 per kid. Every year new teaching materials are needed due to copyright laws etc....thats a highly different scenario than the corporate or medical environments.
 
The induced stupidity of many Americans is an amazing thing to behold.

Money spent on education is evil.

Money spent on war is good.

Money in the pockets of educators is greed.

Money in the pockets of CEO's is honest.

The difference in education Obama offers is getting serious about educating our children.

I call that "patriotism"
 
TexasMeg said:
My first year in my previous job I spent 1k of my own money...not on supplies but actual teaching materials and supplemental teaching tools. Being an elective teacher, I saw 500 students throughout the week. My budget for teaching material was $500....$1 per kid. Every year new teaching materials are needed due to copyright laws etc....thats a highly different scenario than the corporate or medical environments.
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but you get a teaching supply credit on the federal tax form.

last year the wife spent $700 on nurse insurance, $500 on nurse uniforms, and $200 on a new stethoscope.
 
bottom line is teaching is a relatively comfortable job.. yes its hard honest work for 180days a year.. but you get paid well, great job security, have a shit load of days off, a phat pension, and union to give you regular pay increases regardless of if your an outstanding teacher or just average.

people dont go into teaching for money.. they go there because they want to make a difference of because they want lifestyle of summers off.
 
RStringfield said:
Yeah I have had bosses that I could easily confuse with jargon. Even the best bosses I have had still were in the dark alot.

At the college I went to, we as students reviewed the teachers. Why not do the same with kids and parents. That could be part of the review process, anyway.
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Possible but not likely. Parents' are often blinded when it comes to their children, and I highly doubt that anyone would want a teenager determining the outcome of their livelihood.
 
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