Edwards vs Obama

I like Edwards, I like Obamma.

I may just caucus for Obamma though.

I have never caucused before it will be interesting.

I just think the world will look at us much more differently if we elect a man like Obamma.

I think he represents hope to many Americans.

I also think he will be able to work for America in a way that brings the other side to him.

We all saw what happened to Carter who could never get any respect from the ohter side of the aisle.


I don't know how much respect he had from his own side of the aisle. He battled the Democrat Congress and Ted Kennedy challenged him in 1980 for the nomination. Neither Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Bush II had anyone challenge them while running for re-election.
 
There is a modification that I could install that would allow that, but I will never install it unless I am forced to access PMs by a court order. And then if people had deleted them I'd probably have to spend hours upon hours researching an open database attempting to find it, if it is even kept there after deletion.

Your PMs are secure from me. I have no access, and have no wish to know what happens there.
 
There is a modification that I could install that would allow that, but I will never install it unless I am forced to access PMs by a court order. And then if people had deleted them I'd probably have to spend hours upon hours researching an open database attempting to find it, if it is even kept there after deletion.

Your PMs are secure from me. I have no access, and have no wish to know what happens there.

That's what you think. If you knew some of the things me and Tiana talk about, you'd change your tune.
 
I think that Krugman is dead-on here. And some exciting Krugman news – I am going to get to meet him in April at a lecture he is giving in Nassau County!!

“Broadly speaking, the serious contenders for the Democratic nomination are offering similar policy proposals — the dispute over health care mandates notwithstanding. But there are large differences among the candidates in their beliefs about what it will take to turn a progressive agenda into reality.

At one extreme, Barack Obama insists that the problem with America is that our politics are so “bitter and partisan,” and insists that he can get things done by ushering in a “different kind of politics.”

At the opposite extreme, John Edwards blames the power of the wealthy and corporate interests for our problems, and says, in effect, that America needs another F.D.R. — a polarizing figure, the object of much hatred from the right, who nonetheless succeeded in making big changes.

Over the last few days Mr. Obama and Mr. Edwards have been conducting a long-range argument over health care that gets right to this issue. And I have to say that Mr. Obama comes off looking, well, naïve.
The argument began during the Democratic debate, when the moderator — Carolyn Washburn, the editor of The Des Moines Register — suggested that Mr. Edwards shouldn’t be so harsh on the wealthy and special interests, because “the same groups are often responsible for getting things done in Washington.”

Mr. Edwards replied, “Some people argue that we’re going to sit at a table with these people and they’re going to voluntarily give their power away. I think it is a complete fantasy; it will never happen.”

This was pretty clearly a swipe at Mr. Obama, who has repeatedly said that health reform should be negotiated at a “big table” that would include insurance companies and drug companies.

On Saturday Mr. Obama responded, this time criticizing Mr. Edwards by name. He declared that “We want to reduce the power of drug companies and insurance companies and so forth, but the notion that they will have no say-so at all in anything is just not realistic.”

Hmm. Do Obama supporters who celebrate his hoped-for ability to bring us together realize that “us” includes the insurance and drug lobbies?
O.K., more seriously, it’s actually Mr. Obama who’s being unrealistic here, believing that the insurance and drug industries — which are, in large part, the cause of our health care problems — will be willing to play a constructive role in health reform. The fact is that there’s no way to reduce the gross wastefulness of our health system without also reducing the profits of the industries that generate the waste.

As a result, drug and insurance companies — backed by the conservative movement as a whole — will be implacably opposed to any significant reforms. And what would Mr. Obama do then? “I’ll get on television and say Harry and Louise are lying,” he says. I’m sure the lobbyists are terrified.

As health care goes, so goes the rest of the progressive agenda. Anyone who thinks that the next president can achieve real change without bitter confrontation is living in a fantasy world.

Which brings me to a big worry about Mr. Obama: in an important sense, he has in effect become the anti-change candidate.

There’s a strong populist tide running in America right now. For example, a recent Democracy Corps survey of voter discontent found that the most commonly chosen phrase explaining what’s wrong with the country was “Big businesses get whatever they want in Washington.”

And there’s every reason to believe that the Democrats can win big next year if they run with that populist tide. The latest evidence came from focus groups run by both Fox News and CNN during last week’s Democratic debate: both declared Mr. Edwards the clear winner.

But the news media recoil from populist appeals. The Des Moines Register, which endorsed Mr. Edwards in 2004, rejected him this time on the grounds that his “harsh anti-corporate rhetoric would make it difficult to work with the business community to forge change.”

And while The Register endorsed Hillary Clinton, the prime beneficiary of media distaste for populism has clearly been Mr. Obama, with his message of reconciliation. According to a recent survey by the Project for Excellence in Journalism, Mr. Obama’s coverage has been far more favorable than that of any other candidate.

So what happens if Mr. Obama is the nominee?

He will probably win — but not as big as a candidate who ran on a more populist platform. Let’s be blunt: pundits who say that what voters really want is a candidate who makes them feel good, that they want an end to harsh partisanship, are projecting their own desires onto the public.

And nothing Mr. Obama has said suggests that he appreciates the bitterness of the battles he will have to fight if he does become president, and tries to get anything done.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/17/opinion/17krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

What an idiot.
 
No! :cool:

Obama is starting out from a position of weakness. You know how negotiations work. His healthcare plan is so weak in addressing the fundamental underlying probles, that by the time anything get passed after "comprimises" and "negotiations", the final product will be even weaker than his stated policy position. It might be an incremental change around the margins, but I doubt it will do anything to fundamentally fix the problem: the number of uninsured, and universal access to quality healthcare.

Yeah.

The difference between Edwards forcing through blind partisan measures and FDR doing it is 25% of the house and senate. It isn't going to happen. Edwards will be an ineffectual goof who will do nothing and lose in 2012.
 
Yeah.

The difference between Edwards forcing through blind partisan measures and FDR doing it is 25% of the house and senate. It isn't going to happen. Edwards will be an ineffectual goof who will do nothing and lose in 2012.


I don't think what edwards is proposing is all that radical. He outpolls all the republican candidates in deep red Oklahoma. I don't think a radical leftist could do that.

At any rate, do you think edwards is as radical as the guy your supporting - Ron Paul - who has visions of taking america back to the golden age before the New Deal?
 
I don't think what edwards is proposing is all that radical. He outpolls all the republican candidates in deep red Oklahoma. I don't think a radical leftist could do that.

At any rate, do you think edwards is as radical as the guy your supporting - Ron Paul - who has visions of taking america back to the golden age before the New Deal?

Touchez
 
edwards is 30% behing Hillary, only Obama has a long shot this late in the game and he's 18% behind.

As stated before.... while I think she is going to get the nod... don't forget that her husband was a distant third or fourth entering the primaries. As was Kerry. Anything can happen. But I guess as a platinum member of the Hillarygirls, you aren't allowed to think for yourself.
 
I you'd take a break from robbing little old ladies and read the history of heavy favored frontrunners you'll see where I'm coming from.
I'll gladly take obama if Hillary has a Dean moment which is what would have to happen at this point. Do you really think the Clinton Machine is as weak as Dean's. LOFL
 
I you'd take a break from robbing little old ladies and read the history of heavy favored frontrunners you'll see where I'm coming from.
I'll gladly take obama if Hillary has a Dean moment which is what would have to happen at this point. Do you really think the Clinton Machine is as weak as Dean's. LOFL

try to read AND comprehend. I said it was unlikely that she will not be the nominee. BUT you shouldn't be so damn cocky about it because...

1) Her lead has diminished

2) Momentum could potentially play against her

3) She is not the best candidate for the Dems
 
3) She is not the best candidate for the Dems

Probably not but she is quite possibly the best candidate for the repubs.
 
I do like what john edwards say, though he is a lawyer, but he is also very attractive, but mitt's hot too, but Ron is sexy crazy, so Im's just allz confuzeed.
 
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