Famous Atheist

[PoliTalker]

Hello CherubRam,

I looked into his works and they are goofy.

Are you aware that the bible has many parables in it: Parables Proverbs Riddles Dreams Visions https://christianforum.boards.net/thread/49/parables-proverbs-riddles-dreams-visions

I have no use for the Bible. It is full of contradictions. It is just an old book written by humans long ago. They did not have the advantage of modern science. They were guessing.

It is wise to understand that when the Bible was written, most people were illiterate. The ability to read and write was considered almost magical by the masses who depended on the more educated to be told what to do. The fantastic ideas presented in the Bible were used to control the masses. That's why kings and dictators so often had the church leaders right there with them to share in the power of control over others' thinking. Adding a story of eternal damnation for not going along was quite convincing for the illiterate masses.

My guess is the stories in the Bible existed in memory and retold versions long before writing came into existence. I can imagine prehistoric human parents being asked very difficult questions by innocent young children. Where do we all come from? What happens when we die?

Parents had no real answers to these questions, so they made up good sounding things to quiet their children and end the questions. Children grew up believing what their parents had told them, so they repeated the same stories to their own children later on when the same old innocent questions arose.

Just as stories change when retold many times, the stories evolved. And there you have yet another form of evolution. The very stories which later became the Bible were nothing but children's fairy tales which evolved over the many years and generations until they were written down. Since they came from so many various sources, they contained many contradictions.

Later on, writing was invented and humans began to record the old stories. It turned into religion. Many religions. Christianity is only one. They can't all be correct, so the reality is that none of them are. Science has shown the world is far older than the Bible version. And that makes sense. The world was around a long time before Christianity or religions ever popped up.

Matter is energy. Energy is matter. We are stardust. We continue to learn more of how the universe began. The Bible had nothing to do with it. Really, in the big picture, the Bible only came along quite recently. We now know so much more. The Bible should be abandoned. It is really meaningless.

 

[PoliTalker]

Good morning Dutch,

Anything written or constructed by man is inherently flawed. Still, lots of things can be learned or used with flawed tools.

Do you believe any good came from Christianity? Judaism? Islam? Buddhism?

Oh, of course. Plenty of good. Many humans have been guilted into doing good out of fear of eternal damnation. But I am not certain that the good of religions outweighs the bad. And there has been a lot of bad perpetrated in the name of religion.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Good morning Dutch,

Oh, of course. Plenty of good. Many humans have been guilted into doing good out of fear of eternal damnation. But I am not certain that the good of religions outweighs the bad. And there has been a lot of bad perpetrated in the name of religion.

I'm certain although I also agree people have misused and abused all tools of man.

 

[Cypress]

How much is really different in Russian/Greek Orthodox and "Da Holy Roman Catholic Church".

I ain't been to no Russian Orthodox, but Greek Orthodox is very like Catholic.

I suppose the liturgy and sacraments seem superficially similar to the casual observer.

Outside of theological differences (original sin. Primacy of the Bishop of Rome, marriage, rites) the liturgy and the church organization and practices seem pretty different to me (iconostasis, veneration of icons, no pews in the Eastern church, and the congregation is less orderly and more informal than in the western rites))

 

[Cypress]

Anything written or constructed by man is inherently flawed. Still, lots of things can be learned or used with flawed tools.

Do you believe any good came from Christianity? Judaism? Islam? Buddhism?

I feel like the reason organized, formal religious participation and ritual tends to be in decline is partly in some sense because religion won in the end.

The majority of humans in the modern era, depending on where they live, have adopted and accepted in principal, almost by osmosis, the ethics of the noble eightfold path, the Confucian teachings, the Hadith teachings, the wisdom literature of the Hebrew bible, and/or the New Testament ethics.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I feel like the reason organized, formal religious participation and ritual tends to be in decline is partly in some sense because religion won in the end.

The majority of humans in the modern era , depending on where they live, have adopted and accepted in principal, almost by osmosis, the ethics of the noble eightfold path, the Confucian teachings, the Hadith, the wisdom literature of the Hebrew bible, and New Testament ethics.

Agreed for the most part.

I'd also factor in that "as the students become the Masters", they've outgrown the dogma of ancient religions while retaining the spirituality contained within them.

 

[CherubRam]

Hello CherubRam,



The OP didn't say 'famous.' And why should the discussion be limited only to famous atheists? The world is comprised of far more humans than the notable ones.

There are atheists doing good things for the world every day; just as surely as there are Christians doing wrong.

Even if there are Atheist who are good people, the fact remains that morality is another mans opinion for Atheist.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Even if there are Atheist who are good people, the fact remains that morality is another mans opinion for Atheist.

So what? Isn't morality relative? Life boat ethics? Context?

 

[Cypress]

Agreed for the most part.

I'd also factor in that "as the students become the Masters", they've outgrown the dogma of ancient religions while retaining the spirituality contained within them.

Bingo.

 

[CherubRam]

Hello CherubRam,



I have no use for the Bible. It is full of contradictions. It is just an old book written by humans long ago. They did not have the advantage of modern science. They were guessing.

It is wise to understand that when the Bible was written, most people were illiterate. The ability to read and write was considered almost magical by the masses who depended on the more educated to be told what to do. The fantastic ideas presented in the Bible were used to control the masses. That's why kings and dictators so often had the church leaders right there with them to share in the power of control over others' thinking. Adding a story of eternal damnation for not going along was quite convincing for the illiterate masses.

My guess is the stories in the Bible existed in memory and retold versions long before writing came into existence. I can imagine prehistoric human parents being asked very difficult questions by innocent young children. Where do we all come from? What happens when we die?

Parents had no real answers to these questions, so they made up good sounding things to quiet their children and end the questions. Children grew up believing what their parents had told them, so they repeated the same stories to their own children later on when the same old innocent questions arose.

Just as stories change when retold many times, the stories evolved. And there you have yet another form of evolution. The very stories which later became the Bible were nothing but children's fairy tales which evolved over the many years and generations until they were written down. Since they came from so many various sources, they contained many contradictions.

Later on, writing was invented and humans began to record the old stories. It turned into religion. Many religions. Christianity is only one. They can't all be correct, so the reality is that none of them are. Science has shown the world is far older than the Bible version. And that makes sense. The world was around a long time before Christianity or religions ever popped up.

Matter is energy. Energy is matter. We are stardust. We continue to learn more of how the universe began. The Bible had nothing to do with it. Really, in the big picture, the Bible only came along quite recently. We now know so much more. The Bible should be abandoned. It is really meaningless.

For thousands of years it has been taught that the creation days are epochs of time. It wasn't until about the 1800's that it began to be taught that the creation days are literal. The bible says the world is a sphere, but the Catholics taught that it is flat. The Catholics teach that God is a Trinity, but it is found that all of the bible verse that suggest that, have been tampered with. The Catholics teach that there is a Hell, but nowhere in the original text is the word Hell found. And the list goes on and on.

 

[ZenMode]

Hello CherubRam,



I have no use for the Bible. It is full of contradictions. It is just an old book written by humans long ago. They did not have the advantage of modern science. They were guessing.

It is wise to understand that when the Bible was written, most people were illiterate. The ability to read and write was considered almost magical by the masses who depended on the more educated to be told what to do. The fantastic ideas presented in the Bible were used to control the masses. That's why kings and dictators so often had the church leaders right there with them to share in the power of control over others' thinking. Adding a story of eternal damnation for not going along was quite convincing for the illiterate masses.

My guess is the stories in the Bible existed in memory and retold versions long before writing came into existence. I can imagine prehistoric human parents being asked very difficult questions by innocent young children. Where do we all come from? What happens when we die?

Parents had no real answers to these questions, so they made up good sounding things to quiet their children and end the questions. Children grew up believing what their parents had told them, so they repeated the same stories to their own children later on when the same old innocent questions arose.

Just as stories change when retold many times, the stories evolved. And there you have yet another form of evolution. The very stories which later became the Bible were nothing but children's fairy tales which evolved over the many years and generations until they were written down. Since they came from so many various sources, they contained many contradictions.

Later on, writing was invented and humans began to record the old stories. It turned into religion. Many religions. Christianity is only one. They can't all be correct, so the reality is that none of them are. Science has shown the world is far older than the Bible version. And that makes sense. The world was around a long time before Christianity or religions ever popped up.

Matter is energy. Energy is matter. We are stardust. We continue to learn more of how the universe began. The Bible had nothing to do with it. Really, in the big picture, the Bible only came along quite recently. We now know so much more. The Bible should be abandoned. It is really meaningless.

When the Bible was written, humans were still burying dead children/animals under buildings to appease their gods. When the Bible was written, people couldn't explain where the Sun went at night.

The topic of illiteracy is an interesting one. The Bible specifically says that Peter was illiterate....yet he wrote 4+ books (2 of which made the cut and ended up in the Bible). The followers of Jesus were not people who would have been literate. They were day laborers/fisherman, not educated people. They also spoke Aramaic, not Greek which is widely accepted to be the language of the New Testament books.

In other words, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did not write the books under their names.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello CherubRam,

For thousands of years it has been taught that the creation days are epochs of time. It wasn't until about the 1800's that it began to be taught that the creation days are literal. The bible says the world is a sphere, but the Catholics taught that it is flat. The Catholics teach that God is a Trinity, but it is found that all of the bible verse that suggest that, have been tampered with. The Catholics teach that there is a Hell, but nowhere in the original text is the word Hell found. And the list goes on and on.

Matter is energy. Energy is matter. We are stardust. We continue to learn more of how the universe began. What led to the Big Bang that we believe initiated the universe? We do not know. The Bible had nothing to do with it. Really, in the big picture, the Bible only came along quite recently. Long, long after the Big Bang. We now know so much more. The Bible should be abandoned. It is really meaningless.