Federal workers earning double their private counterparts

Cypress said:
No one is ever going to get rich working for the government. Nobody in the government, even the top management, make more that about a couple hundred grand a year. The banks and corporations are fully willing to give multimillion dollar salaries to their management goons who crashed the economy. The fact that government secretaries, border patrolmen, and technical staff might get paid more than many of their private industry counterparts is a reflection of the unionized collective bargaining entities that civil servants have which demand a living wage for its workers.

If you’re jealous about that, then get your own union started. It’s beyond the slightest doubt that, on average, unionized workers make better salaries and have better benefits than their non-union peers. And I think American corporations can afford it; as I understand it corporate profits over the last two decades broadly speaking have outperformed most previous historical trends. If Ken Lay is worth a twenty million dollar/year salary, then a welder should easily make 90 grand, or whatever. 90 grand isn’t really all that much money in the world today, if you want to have a normal life with a house and family.


I wonder why we routinely see threads from reich wingers attacking unions, but I can’t ever recall seeing measurable amount of threads from a NeoCon in all my years on message board complaining about salaries for corporate upper management, the outsourcing of American jobs to low wage countries, and that broader attacks on the middle class by the NAFTA and “free trade” cabals.

Unions aren’t destroying this country. Unions built this country, and unions are predominantly the main reason for the rise of a robust and widespread American middle class. American unions are the smallest and weakest they’ve ever been in 60 years, thanks to the policies and ideologies of Ronnie Raygun and the enablers of corporate-sponsored attacks on labor laws, regulation and free trade. Attacking unions for the problems of this country is like beating up on an injured kitten. Unions ain’t the problem, bro.


You dudes hate unions, that's fine. I don't get it though. Why the routine, and widespread bashing and hatred of unions? Outside of the rush limbaugh show, and the backwaters of internet wingnuttopia, I don't hear average americans in real life hatin' on unions. Or blaming unions for fucking the country over.


With that said, I will leave you with this wingnut challenge: If you dudes can peel yourselves away from the CATO institute website for a minute, can you name for me one, single, solitary developed and prosperous nation on this planet that exists in some sort of CATO institute Nirvana of a union-free economy, guided by the brilliant hand of the free market and the captains of industry?
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You don't get rich ever working for anyone else, except maybe for Bill Gates.
 
Liberty said:
And people were talking about it, all the way up to the time it crashed.
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exactly...

IMO...unlike the dot com bubble burst...since a gop was pres...the liberals were still talking down the economy...despite saying clinton saved the day because he reigned over the dot com bubble....

if clinton's term had ended after the bubble, different story, same with bush, because his term ended after the housing bubble, he gets all the blame...while many dems give obama the credit for bush's bailouts which they claim obama did and worked because it was obama

many don't even know it was bush who initially sent the bailout to gm and chrysler....
 
Yurt said:
exactly...

IMO...unlike the dot com bubble burst...since a gop was pres...the liberals were still talking down the economy...despite saying clinton saved the day because he reigned over the dot com bubble....

if clinton's term had ended after the bubble, different story, same with bush, because his term ended after the housing bubble, he gets all the blame...while many dems give obama the credit for bush's bailouts which they claim obama did and worked because it was obama

many don't even know it was bush who initially sent the bailout to gm and chrysler....
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Ya know,,, I think you're right.

Also, there's to much put into the Clinton Crap. I think the Chinease love him the most. Even more than Gore.
 
Damn Yankee said:
But the 6% depression of the private sector wages occurred under The Obama, or are you blaming Bush for that too?

You quote proves my claim. The highly skilled fed workers get market wages (plus boku benefits and retirement, as I stated previously). The low skilled fed workers get higher pay outright.
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But you don't care about american workers anyway. you would rather send the jobs to overseas slaves.
 
Damn Yankee said:
Actually, I'd "rather" let the free market decide.
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no "free" market should includes wage slaves in fascist overseas corporate prisons.

Markets have always been constrained by factors like morality, and long term national impact, and policy making should remain inside this context of other considerations.

Putting profitmaking into some zone where morality and other concerns don't apply is just a justification of evil. you have become evil, though you think you are good.
 
AssHatZombie said:
no "free" market should includes wage slaves in fascist overseas corporate prisons.

Markets have always been constrained by factors like morality, and long term national impact, and policy making should remain inside this context of other considerations.

Putting profitmaking into some zone where morality and other concerns don't apply is just a justification of evil. you have become evil, though you think you are good.
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The free market also involves the ability of company A to market itself by touting its morality over Company B.
 
Cypress said:
With that said, I will leave you with this wingnut challenge: If you dudes can peel yourselves away from the CATO institute website for a minute, can you name for me one, single, solitary developed and prosperous nation on this planet that exists in some sort of CATO institute Nirvana of a union-free economy, guided by the brilliant hand of the free market and the captains of industry?
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I can. China.
 
Liberty said:
I'd say a little earlier than that.
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Yes it started with Reagan's war on the middle class.

"Reagan’s war on labor began in the summer of 1981, when he fired 13,000 striking air traffic controllers and destroyed their union. As Washington Post columnist Harold Meyerson noted, that was "an unambiguous signal that employers need feel little or no obligation to their workers, and employers got that message loud and clear — illegally firing workers who sought to unionize, replacing permanent employees who could collect benefits with temps who could not, shipping factories and jobs abroad."

Reagan gave dedicated union foes direct control of the federal agencies that were designed originally to protect and further the rights and interests of workers and their unions."
http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/19/unions-and-the-return-of-the-middle-class/
 
Crashk said:
Yes it started with Reagan's war on the middle class.

"Reagan’s war on labor began in the summer of 1981, when he fired 13,000 striking air traffic controllers and destroyed their union. As Washington Post columnist Harold Meyerson noted, that was "an unambiguous signal that employers need feel little or no obligation to their workers, and employers got that message loud and clear — illegally firing workers who sought to unionize, replacing permanent employees who could collect benefits with temps who could not, shipping factories and jobs abroad."

Reagan gave dedicated union foes direct control of the federal agencies that were designed originally to protect and further the rights and interests of workers and their unions."
http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/19/unions-and-the-return-of-the-middle-class/
Click to expand...

Nope. Earlier than Reagan.
 
Crashk said:
Yes it started with Reagan's war on the middle class.

"Reagan’s war on labor began in the summer of 1981, when he fired 13,000 striking air traffic controllers and destroyed their union. As Washington Post columnist Harold Meyerson noted, that was "an unambiguous signal that employers need feel little or no obligation to their workers, and employers got that message loud and clear — illegally firing workers who sought to unionize, replacing permanent employees who could collect benefits with temps who could not, shipping factories and jobs abroad."

Reagan gave dedicated union foes direct control of the federal agencies that were designed originally to protect and further the rights and interests of workers and their unions."
http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/19/unions-and-the-return-of-the-middle-class/
Click to expand...

You're right, Reagan shouldn't have fired the fucktards. While we're at it, we should let physicians, nurses, paramedics, law enforcement officers, firefighters, military personnel, INS personnel, wastewater technicians and other utilities personnel, and hazardous waste managers all go on strike as well.
 
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