Food Rationing Confronts Breadbasket of the World

luck your whole "oil is evil rant" is what I'm poking wholes at.
Oil doesn't want biofuels to happen, facts clearly point you out as uninformed.
We are stuck on oil for a long time and if we don't allow drilling domestically soon your beloved alternatives will get some nice pricing in much higher oil to give them the boost you seek.
 
luck your whole "oil is evil rant" is what I'm poking wholes at.
Oil doesn't want biofuels to happen, facts clearly point you out as uninformed.
We are stuck on oil for a long time and if we don't allow drilling domestically soon your beloved alternatives will get some nice pricing in much higher oil to give them the boost you seek.
Where did I ONCE say oil is evil? Point it out please. Since I never said that, what is your purpose in "poking holes" in an argument I did not state? I do question the wisdom of big oil ignoring or even sometimes fighting the advent of biofuels in the energy economy. But that is not evil, just unwise.

I clearly stated at least twice that I have no problem with oil as an energy source. I expect the U.S. to continue to use oil as an energy source, pretty much until there is no more oil.

What I have a problem with, what I want our society to work to change, is IMPORTING oil - or any other energy source for that matter. Our economy would be much stronger if we were energy independent. It would be stronger yet if we were an energy exporter.

As for being uninformed, it is you who continually denies the current state of cellulosic technology. You are either uninformed, or you deliberately disavow the facts to comfort yourself. The CURRENT level of technology works or there would not be a company successfully (albeit with heavy price subsidies) producing cellulosic ethanol on an industrial level. This FACT proves that the only barrier to cellulosic ethanol is relative cost per BTU compared to oil.

Yes, there are U.S. companies working on the technology to make it more economical. But the need to make a process more economical does not mean the process itself is in the experimental stage. It means it is not economically competitive. Some of the ideas bouncing around to make cellulosic ethanol production cheaper are experimental, but the base technology of turning cellulose into ethanol (and methanol) is a proven technology.

And, as you just admitted, if new sources of oil are not developed soon, then the price barrier between oil as an energy source and ethanol - including cellulosic ethanol - will be at least significantly reduced, if not removed entirely. Based on the events of the last decade, that economic turning point will arrive sooner than you seem to want to think about.

But that does not in any way mean oil will be removed from U.S. energy economy, nor have I ever said it will. What it means is we will have the capability to eliminate the need to import oil, and ultimately have the capability to export bio-fuels. This, too, will be and important economic turning point as world demand will only continue to outrace the production of fossil fuels.

The positive effects on our economy from such a transition would be unbelievably profound, to include a much, much stronger dollar. This is something every one should want to happen, even oil people, because such an event will only make the wealth derived from oil stronger.
 
Good luck, do you believe we should drill anwar so reduce our dependance on foreign oil? If not, why not?
I think we should do as much as reasonably possible to reduce (and ultimately eliminate) our energy imports. The question is, do the ecological impacts of drilling in anwar fall under the heading of "reasonable"? I believe that question is not resolved at this time. If we can minimize the ecological impact and reduce as close to zero the possibility of an accident causing ecological disaster, then yes I am for it. But the issue needs more study. I am not in favor of taking an "at all costs" approach to developing more domestic oil sources.
 
I think we should do as much as reasonably possible to reduce (and ultimately eliminate) our energy imports. The question is, do the ecological impacts of drilling in anwar fall under the heading of "reasonable"? I believe that question is not resolved at this time. If we can minimize the ecological impact and reduce as close to zero the possibility of an accident causing ecological disaster, then yes I am for it. But the issue needs more study. I am not in favor of taking an "at all costs" approach to developing more domestic oil sources.

It's fine though for 3rd world people to starve while we subsidize and study?
 
A direct result of the subsidies.
It is a result of subsidizing the wrong thing, as I have repeatedly stated. I am dead set against subsidizing the use of food grains for fuel. It is bound for failure and will only serve to blacken the eye of biofuels as a whole while depriving people of affordable food.

The subsidized use of food grains for biofuels may have been spurred by oil prices, but an additional domestic source of oil will not stop those subsidies, nor the use of food grains. The only thing that will stop the use of food grains for biofuel is switching to another source of biomatter.

Drilling in anwar would not impact this phenomenon one way or the other. As such, yes we can "afford" to study the situation in anwar in more depth before drilling.

If we want to change the way subsidized ethanol is affecting world food supplies, we need to write our congress critters and governors. We need to get a movement started that will force our state and federal governments to turn away from the dangerous path of subsidizing food grains for fuel, and turn to better sources.
 
I think we should do as much as reasonably possible to reduce (and ultimately eliminate) our energy imports. The question is, do the ecological impacts of drilling in anwar fall under the heading of "reasonable"? I believe that question is not resolved at this time. If we can minimize the ecological impact and reduce as close to zero the possibility of an accident causing ecological disaster, then yes I am for it. But the issue needs more study. I am not in favor of taking an "at all costs" approach to developing more domestic oil sources.

It doesn't need more study. It should be done. Elitists want to save this oil for themselves and depopulate the world based on lies. You're on their side, apparently. And for that reason, you suck.
 
Luck, at least your trying. Read some more. All the grassland in the country for cellulosic ethanol wouldn't replace 10% of our oil. Reducing imports can't be done without massive increases in where we can domestically drill, an explosion of hybrids and wind farms will all be needed.
 
Luck, at least your trying. Read some more. All the grassland in the country for cellulosic ethanol wouldn't replace 10% of our oil. Reducing imports can't be done without massive increases in where we can domestically drill, an explosion of hybrids and wind farms will all be needed.
Where the hell do you get your figures? Bullshitters-R-us?

Current estimates indicate cellulosic ethanol could replace close to 50% of our oil imports just from the waste cellulose we generate. (plant and paper waste going to landfills, plant waste from food harvests, waste wood from the timber industry, etc.)

The city of Los Angeles alone produces almost 10 million tons of trash per year, 80% being cellulose of one type or another. That's enough to make 640 million gallons of ethanol from the waste of ONE city at current technology.

New York exports over 50,000 tons a day to other areas because of landfill problems.
http://www.jacksonholestartrib.com/articles/2008/04/03/news/odd/fe71c17b7478e0b28725703c005a622a.txt
All-in-all, NYC cellulose waste could be turned into a billion gallons of ethanol. That's 1.6 billion gallons of ethanol yearly from 2 (admittedly the largest) cities. And that does not even begin to approach cellulose waste from the agriculture and timber industries, much of which is simply burned off without any addition to our energy needs.

And energy company is in the process of building ethanol production facilities near major landfills. Their production estimates are a bit too rosy, but they make good points about using lignin (from the cellulose breakdown process) and methane generated by the landfill to meet much of the ethanol plants' energy needs, thus increasing significantly the net energy yield.
http://wolfsden.wordpress.com/2008/02/14/biofules-from-trash/
 
I think we should do as much as reasonably possible to reduce (and ultimately eliminate) our energy imports. The question is, do the ecological impacts of drilling in anwar fall under the heading of "reasonable"? I believe that question is not resolved at this time. If we can minimize the ecological impact and reduce as close to zero the possibility of an accident causing ecological disaster, then yes I am for it. But the issue needs more study. I am not in favor of taking an "at all costs" approach to developing more domestic oil sources.

As opposed to what?.... Russia drilling more wells? Venezuela drilling more wells? Who is going to take greater care in the drilling process? Not to mention the area of land that would be needed at this point is approximately the size of LAX. Fear mongering is the reason we are so dependent upon foreign oil. Side note.... what is a greater danger.... piping the oil here or shipping it here?

Drilling in the Gulf is also an option.

Biofuels are ok, so long as we are not using our food to produce them.
 
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