Gitmo Detainees to Get Welfare Checks!

[apple0154]

Why aren't they plotting against Russia or China?

You don't remember the terrorists who took all those kids hostage in the Russian School?

You don't realize that the terrorists that would get this welfare were being trained to attack in China?

I'm not saying we shouldn't do a bit of introspection here. But we should at least be realistic about things like who is getting attacked by Radical Muslim Extremists.

Let's look at the people here who enter schools and kill students and teachers. Here's a web site http://www.holology.com/shooting.html

How many are/were radical Muslims? I didn't notice any but I just skimmed the list. My point being we have more to fear from the guy next door than the radical Muslim.

What advantage does the radical Muslim have over the gun toting teenager who lives down the street, yet, we invade countries searching for them. It just doesn't make sense.

If McVeigh had been associated with Muslims there would have been a never-ending mention of his name.

Ask someone who Cho Seung-Hui is. He killed 33 people at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Virginia on Monday April 15, 2007. If it had been shown he was a radical Muslim everyone and their uncle would know his name.

My point is there are people who are a lot more crazy than a radical Muslim and we have to put things into perspective. The death toll from 911 was a fluke. The buildings were not supposed to collapse. The radical Muslims never believed their planes would demolish the buildings. In fact, when the people tried to exit the buildings after the planes hit they were told to go back to their offices so as not to block the street when the fire department arrived.

Imagine if the people had been allowed to leave the building. There was a 30 minute window of opportunity to evacuate the buildings. A lot of people could have survived but they were told not to leave! We don't hear too much about that, do we?

The terrorists never orchestrated (by means of clever or thorough planning or maneuvering) the death of over 3000 people but it is portrayed in such a way as they were successful in planning such a diabolical plot.

Flying the planes into the buildings resulted in the death of 3000 people but other circumstances greatly contributed to the total. They did not devise a plan that would kill 3000 people.

Stated another way they don't do more than the average high school educated individual could do. Or some outlaw gang. We've elevated them to be some super group and they aren't.

At best, they're small groups of thugs. Investigations/documentaries have shown there is no "central command" and that's why invading countries is pointless because all we'll be successful in doing is getting a small group while other groups carry on. Meanwhile, the citizens in those countries suffer tremendous hardship, if they live. From lack of basic services to outright anarchy their way of life is destroyed. Who can't understand their outrage?

As for Russia and China what countries have they invaded looking for terrorists? They know it's pointless and so did the past administration but it made a hell of a good argument at the time, didn't it?

 

[apple0154]

Oh, now come on apple is delicious!

And when I see the connies turning on him in this fashion, well, it just means they aren't winning the debate.

Awww, Frog. You're a sweety. A compliment like that keeps me going strong.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

There's little point going through your entire post line by line when the meat of it lies in the above paragraph.....When the west enters Muslim countries they change laws. Why do you think Muslim women are not obliged to wear the hijab anymore in certain countries. Who changed those laws?

BECAUSE THE PEOPLE OF THOSE COUNTRIES CHANGED THEIR LAWS! WE DO NOT CONTROL WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES DO, WE HAVEN'T MANDATED WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES DO, WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THE PEOPLE OF A COUNTRY DECIDE TO DO!

Please give me just ONE fucking example of the United States changing law in a Muslim country.... just one! In history! EVER???? You are a fucking retarded moron who doesn't deserve the time I've spent on you already. Go fucking pick up a history book and try to learn something, before you come here and try to debate. You are ridiculous... the US changed their laws my ass... What the fuck are they putting in your koolaid these days?

I gave an example in previous posts. If a foreign power came here and changed laws so woman could attend church topless and the authorities here couldn't do anything about it what do you think would happen?

But that's not happening, you brain-dead fucking idiot! We aren't imperialistically occupying ANY GODDAMN COUNTRY IN THE FUCKING WORLD!!!! In the two countries which we are currently fighting a war, we have allowed the democratic process of the people, to elect their own government, which we are working with... we have NO SAY in what or how they decide to run their government, much less what fucking laws are going to be passed!

The west thinks they set Muslim women free so they don't have to cover their face. What would you think of a foreign power coming here and setting American women free so they don't have to cover their breasts? Would that be fine with you or do you get to decide what body parts should or should not be covered?

Again, we have not gone ANYWHERE and told Muslims they have to do this or that! HASN'T EVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF THE MUTHERFUCKING WORLD DUDE!!

Why all the talk about freeing people from Sharia law or other oppressive religious laws? What business is it of ours? Maybe a foreign power needs to come here and free people from oppressive marijuana laws. How many US citizens are in jail for smoking a weed? (No, I do not partake myself. I prefer something a little stronger.)

When RADICALS start flying planes into our buildings, killing thousands of innocent American citizens, it is THEN OUR FUCKING BUSINESS!!

We are in their country interfering with them and they don't want us there. Can it be explained in any simpler terms? What is it you can't grasp? We are there. They are not here.

No, we are NOT in their country, haven't been in their country, have no desire to go into their country and tell them a damn thing. We are in Iraq and Afghanistan, waging war on alQaeda and radical Islamic Fundamentalists who like to hijack our planes and kill thousands of innocent Americans.

Solution? Get out!

Solution: Shoot your idiot self in the head!

 

[apple0154]

BECAUSE THE PEOPLE OF THOSE COUNTRIES CHANGED THEIR LAWS! WE DO NOT CONTROL WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES DO, WE HAVEN'T MANDATED WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES DO, WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THE PEOPLE OF A COUNTRY DECIDE TO DO!

Please give me just ONE fucking example of the United States changing law in a Muslim country.... just one! In history! EVER???? You are a fucking retarded moron who doesn't deserve the time I've spent on you already. Go fucking pick up a history book and try to learn something, before you come here and try to debate. You are ridiculous... the US changed their laws my ass... What the fuck are they putting in your koolaid these days?

Help me out here. Are you an adolescent or an adult who, for whatever reason, left school around grade eight or nine? I'll assume you're the former so I'll give you a crash course in politics.

The US "visits" different countries and covertly installs governments. They do that by promoting a certain politician and, of course, the people vote for the person not knowing they're backed by the US government. That's why we have laws requiring politicians to disclose contributions, otherwise, foreign countries could influence elections.

Once the person is installed as leader they change/make laws which the US wants. To the average guy on the street they see a fellow citizen as leader. The fact is they are little more than a puppet for the US government. (If you have difficulty comprehending what I'm saying feel free to ask questions.)

Obvious examples are Afghanistan and Iraq. Laws that were in place, such as the obligatory wearing of a hijab, have been changed. If you do a little research you'll find lots of laws that have been changed.

But that's not happening, you brain-dead fucking idiot! We aren't imperialistically occupying ANY GODDAMN COUNTRY IN THE FUCKING WORLD!!!! In the two countries which we are currently fighting a war, we have allowed the democratic process of the people, to elect their own government, which we are working with... we have NO SAY in what or how they decide to run their government, much less what fucking laws are going to be passed!

Yes, we allow people to choose from candidates we have selected. Again, refer to what I wrote about contributions. Money is supplied to the candidate the US government wants and that money is used for anything from publicity for the candidate to digging up dirt on the opponent. Just like politics here. Again, you probably haven't had any substantial civic courses yet but you will as you go through high school.

Again, we have not gone ANYWHERE and told Muslims they have to do this or that! HASN'T EVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF THE MUTHERFUCKING WORLD DUDE!!

I refer you to the hijab.

When RADICALS start flying planes into our buildings, killing thousands of innocent American citizens, it is THEN OUR FUCKING BUSINESS!!

No, we are NOT in their country, haven't been in their country, have no desire to go into their country and tell them a damn thing. We are in Iraq and Afghanistan, waging war on alQaeda and radical Islamic Fundamentalists who like to hijack our planes and kill thousands of innocent Americans.

Once again, ask your self how many people were involved. A country or a small group of sick individuals?

Don't despair. You'll learn as you go through school. We were all young and naive once.

 

[Damocles]

Let's look at the people here who enter schools and kill students and teachers. Here's a web site http://www.holology.com/shooting.html

How many are/were radical Muslims? I didn't notice any but I just skimmed the list. My point being we have more to fear from the guy next door than the radical Muslim.

What advantage does the radical Muslim have over the gun toting teenager who lives down the street, yet, we invade countries searching for them. It just doesn't make sense.

If McVeigh had been associated with Muslims there would have been a never-ending mention of his name.

Ask someone who Cho Seung-Hui is. He killed 33 people at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Virginia on Monday April 15, 2007. If it had been shown he was a radical Muslim everyone and their uncle would know his name.

My point is there are people who are a lot more crazy than a radical Muslim and we have to put things into perspective. The death toll from 911 was a fluke. The buildings were not supposed to collapse. The radical Muslims never believed their planes would demolish the buildings. In fact, when the people tried to exit the buildings after the planes hit they were told to go back to their offices so as not to block the street when the fire department arrived.

Imagine if the people had been allowed to leave the building. There was a 30 minute window of opportunity to evacuate the buildings. A lot of people could have survived but they were told not to leave! We don't hear too much about that, do we?

The terrorists never orchestrated (by means of clever or thorough planning or maneuvering) the death of over 3000 people but it is portrayed in such a way as they were successful in planning such a diabolical plot.

Flying the planes into the buildings resulted in the death of 3000 people but other circumstances greatly contributed to the total. They did not devise a plan that would kill 3000 people.

Stated another way they don't do more than the average high school educated individual could do. Or some outlaw gang. We've elevated them to be some super group and they aren't.

At best, they're small groups of thugs. Investigations/documentaries have shown there is no "central command" and that's why invading countries is pointless because all we'll be successful in doing is getting a small group while other groups carry on. Meanwhile, the citizens in those countries suffer tremendous hardship, if they live. From lack of basic services to outright anarchy their way of life is destroyed. Who can't understand their outrage?

As for Russia and China what countries have they invaded looking for terrorists? They know it's pointless and so did the past administration but it made a hell of a good argument at the time, didn't it?

No, let's point out the inconsistencies of your argument. The places where you were either deliberately wrong, or ignorantly so.

You asked somebody why they weren't targeting Russia and China, I pointed out that they are, gave examples and information, and continued the conversation.

You attempt to distract and change an uncomfortable subject, one in which you demonstrated a marked ignorance. You throw up a wall of script on a different subject hoping it will appear that you are less ignorant than you obviously were, but I won't let you avoid it.

The people you say they aren't targeting are being targeted, have been targeted, and will continue to be targeted in the future. The foundation of your argument was ineptly formed and thus your argument collapsed under its own weight.

Does anybody remember those McDonald's commercials where the guy "distracted" his friends from his french fry theft so very ineptly by shouting nonsense loudly? This is what I am reminded of here.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Help me out here. Are you an adolescent or an adult who, for whatever reason, left school around grade eight or nine? I'll assume you're the former so I'll give you a crash course in politics.

LOL... I am a 50 year old, who has experienced everything from homelessness to owning a million-dollar company. I have a double major in psychology and business administration, and the subsequent degrees to go with them. My ancestry is Black Dutch, the original Black Dutch... persecuted Germans who resided in the Black Forest. My family came to America in the late 1600's, and I am 1/8 Cherokee and 1/16 African-American. I have a twice-great grandfather and his brother, who fought and died in the Civil War, and my mother participated in the Selma-Montgomery march.

Not that ANY of this has a thing to do with the thread topic, you seemed to be curious about my background. I seriously doubt you could teach me anything, but I learned way back, when I worked as a cottage parent at a rehab center for the mentally retarded, even the most profoundly retarded humans can be learned from sometimes.

The US "visits" different countries and covertly installs governments. They do that by promoting a certain politician and, of course, the people vote for the person not knowing they're backed by the US government. That's why we have laws requiring politicians to disclose contributions, otherwise, foreign countries could influence elections.

Once the person is installed as leader they change/make laws which the US wants. To the average guy on the street they see a fellow citizen as leader. The fact is they are little more than a puppet for the US government. (If you have difficulty comprehending what I'm saying feel free to ask questions.)

I have a few questions... Where, exactly, has this happened? I mean, besides inside of your rather vacant head? We have indeed backed "pro-democracy" leaders, and we haven't always backed the right people... many instances, we end up having to back the lesser of two evils, because the fact is, righteous freedom like America is famous for, is not found in abundance outside of our country. We have funded coups, but always of government regimes who are oppressing their people or pose a threat to our allies in the region. Even with all of this, we have NEVER gone into ANY country, and told them what their laws would be! --Never has happened in this dimension of reality.

Obvious examples are Afghanistan and Iraq. Laws that were in place, such as the obligatory wearing of a hijab, have been changed. If you do a little research you'll find lots of laws that have been changed.

The wearing of the hijab was never a law in Iraq, it was a secular government under Saddam. In fact, it was only a law in Afghanistan because it was imposed by the Taliban. The US didn't change these laws, the people of Afghanistan and Iraq can now have free and open elections, political debate, and the ability to form their own laws based on what the people want. Indeed, lots of laws imposed by the former tyrant rulers, have been changed! But it's not the US who is making those changes, it is the people of those countries, who are now able to express their views (for the first time in world history) at the ballot box.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Once again, ask your self how many people were involved. A country or a small group of sick individuals?

Here is the thing, you can't really comprehend the particulars. In one case, you are trying to claim we are waging a war against a religion, and here, you seem to think the 9/11 attacks were merely a few sick people... do you understand what the Pan-Arab movement is? Have you read up on the ultimate objectives of radical Islam, to establish a Caliphate from Europe to Indonesia?

This is not the entire Muslim religion, and it's not just a hand full of sick individuals. alQaeda, and other terror groups like them, are radical religious extremists. They represent a fairly sizable chunk of the Muslim population, in that particular region of the world. That is where the problem lies, because they utilize tactics of human terror, to force their will on the people. The best way for me to explain them to a lefty is... Imagine Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have gone mad and have AK-47's! These radicals want to push people back to 5th century barbarian customs, because that is what they think is in line with their religious teachings.

I wonder what ever happened to Borat? The thing I liked about that character was, it exposed the radical Islamofascist ideology for what it was. We saw it as comedy, but that's really how the radical Islamics think! Women are about the level of a goat in society. Racist, and intolerant of any lifestyle outside their strict traditional religious mandates. Borat made fun of it, which was politically incorrect, but ever-so true.

The Radicals make up about 15% or less of the total Muslim religion. It's just that, they are largely saturated in that region, and pose a real threat to stability. On 9/11/01, they became a national security threat. We never declared war on Islam, the radicals claimed to declare war on us, on behalf of Islam. Problem is, Islams is somewhat divided on the issue.

Look at Pakistan, and Iraq/Afghanistan, for that matter, they are largely Muslim populations, yet they are not screaming "Death To America" and trying to fly planes into the buildings. Look at our biggest ally in the region, Saudi Arabia... largely Muslim, largely hard-core Muslim, but they are not sending jihadists into Iraq to blow up IED's. No, these highly Muslim countries are assisting the US in the War on Terror, helping us to round up the terrorist elements within their countries, and stamp out the militant radical troublemakers.

The Chinese Muslim separatists at Gitmo, were captured at a terror training camp in Pakistan! Do you think the US just put covert boots on the ground in Pakistan, and did this? Nope... Musharif and the Pakistan government cooperated fully... led us to them! So, this is not about a war against Muslims or the religion of Islam. It is about a problematic segment of religious extremists, who believe human terror is acceptable in a civilized world, and a valid way to achieve their ultimate objectives.

 

[apple0154]

No, let's point out the inconsistencies of your argument. The places where you were either deliberately wrong, or ignorantly so.

You asked somebody why they weren't targeting Russia and China, I pointed out that they are, gave examples and information, and continued the conversation.

You attempt to distract and change an uncomfortable subject, one in which you demonstrated a marked ignorance. You throw up a wall of script on a different subject hoping it will appear that you are less ignorant than you obviously were, but I won't let you avoid it.

The people you say they aren't targeting are being targeted, have been targeted, and will continue to be targeted in the future. The foundation of your argument was ineptly formed and thus your argument collapsed under its own weight.

Does anybody remember those McDonald's commercials where the guy "distracted" his friends from his french fry theft so very ineptly by shouting nonsense loudly? This is what I am reminded of here.

My argument is and was that the so-called Radical Extremists/ terrorists "gang" is a blown up bunch of crap. That's the point. It's like saying the outlaw motorcycle gang or drug dealers in the UK are the same as the motorcycle gangs and drug dealers in the USA.

There will always be groups of people doing stupid things. There is no connection between the radical in Russia and the radical in the US other than they're simply claiming the same affiliation.

Unfortunately it's your ignorance we must deal with. Investigations have shown these groups of radicals/extremists have little or nothing to do with each other. They're no more a "group" than the fans of American Idol.

The purpose of my last post was to show the average nut case is more of a threat than the so-called extremists/radicals. One group claiming to be radicals hold students hostage while one run-of-the-mill nut case kills dozens of students. Who is the bigger threat?

Any anti-social anarchist can claim to be a radical Muslim. Again, investigations have shown that when these so-called groups take over a section of a country, say Afghanistan for example, they fight side by side until they secure the area and then they start killing each other because they are not a group. They have no central policy. They are simply anarchists or folks on a power trip.

Do a little research. There are good documentaries and investigative programs you can view. This idea there is some group "with tentacles (not testicles) stretching around the world", as war mongering Cheney described it, is bullsh!t. Pure and simple.

 

[Damocles]

My argument is and was that the so-called Radical Extremists/ terrorists "gang" is a blown up bunch of crap. That's the point. It's like saying the outlaw motorcycle gang or drug dealers in the UK are the same as the motorcycle gangs and drug dealers in the USA.

There will always be groups of people doing stupid things. There is no connection between the radical in Russia and the radical in the US other than they're simply claiming the same affiliation.

Unfortunately it's your ignorance we must deal with. Investigations have shown these groups of radicals/extremists have little or nothing to do with each other. They're no more a "group" than the fans of American Idol.

The purpose of my last post was to show the average nut case is more of a threat than the so-called extremists/radicals. One group claiming to be radicals hold students hostage while one run-of-the-mill nut case kills dozens of students. Who is the bigger threat?

Any anti-social anarchist can claim to be a radical Muslim. Again, investigations have shown that when these so-called groups take over a section of a country, say Afghanistan for example, they fight side by side until they secure the area and then they start killing each other because they are not a group. They have no central policy. They are simply anarchists or folks on a power trip.

Do a little research. There are good documentaries and investigative programs you can view. This idea there is some group "with tentacles (not testicles) stretching around the world", as war mongering Cheney described it, is bullsh!t. Pure and simple.

Do you have to be forcefully and deliberately obtuse?

Did you even read my first post?

"I'm not saying we shouldn't do a bit of introspection here. But we should at least be realistic about things like who is getting attacked by Radical Muslim Extremists."

Please, start from that then re-read this inanity you posted here. See if the ideas even mesh for you.


Now to answer this inanity:

Whether it is "blown out of proportion" they have managed to take over a school in Russia killing many children and teachers, attack many targets in China, take down buildings in the US, and actively plan more attacks. They did this with the help of a government we gave money in support to and were not interfering with, we even let them blow up Buddhist statues marking the path of Buddha without stopping even one payment to them... Let them force Sharia on their populace with aplomb... Yeah, letting them alone and helping them really paid off.

I prefer to take groups like that seriously, from eco-terrorists right here in our back yard planting traps in trees and burning down lodges on mountaintops, to foreign nationals who will not be satisfied until we all pray to their magic-man, facing Mecca, while pointing our asses up to God because he will tear our eyes out if we look up while we pray.

"Do a little research" (LOL) says the idiot who thinks that Russia isn't a target, that thinks China has gotten a pass. Extremely ironic that the most ignorant cries "research" after facts are presented that showed their questions to be inanities presented by the ignorant.

Whether they have "little to do with each other" or not, they have shown themselves as effective in killing people they disagree with, even if it is their own kind after they have run out of "enemies of God". Even Russians and Chinese, amazingly enough, are targets.

Pay particular attention to the following so you can use my actual opinion to continue a conversation in which there is give and take.

While I agree that we should get out of the region, use homegrown oil and natural gas until a better source of energy is available, and let them finish their own battles, it isn't because I am stupid enough to think that Russia and China are examples of people who leave them alone and aren't targeted. I like to begin with reality when forming an opinion, apparently you form yours and just make up reality that seems to fit regardless of annoying facts.

Now if I get another post about how I should agree that we should leave them alone and that I'm arguing for continued wars I'll know that you do indeed have to be deliberately obtuse and that you can't even read what my opinion is before you try to give me bad information in support of yours.

 

[apple0154]

I have a few questions... Where, exactly, has this happened? I mean, besides inside of your rather vacant head? We have indeed backed "pro-democracy" leaders, and we haven't always backed the right people... many instances, we end up having to back the lesser of two evils, because the fact is, righteous freedom like America is famous for, is not found in abundance outside of our country. We have funded coups, but always of government regimes who are oppressing their people or pose a threat to our allies in the region. Even with all of this, we have NEVER gone into ANY country, and told them what their laws would be! --Never has happened in this dimension of reality.

What is funding a coup or backing people you like if it's not about getting our way of life (ie: our laws) spread to other countries? That's exactly how we do it. We back someone who agrees with our way of life and we interfere with the political process in that country even if the general population doesn't agree. Let's not be naive here.

The wearing of the hijab was never a law in Iraq, it was a secular government under Saddam. In fact, it was only a law in Afghanistan because it was imposed by the Taliban. The US didn't change these laws, the people of Afghanistan and Iraq can now have free and open elections, political debate, and the ability to form their own laws based on what the people want. Indeed, lots of laws imposed by the former tyrant rulers, have been changed! But it's not the US who is making those changes, it is the people of those countries, who are now able to express their views (for the first time in world history) at the ballot box.

Sure, everyone's happy in those countries now that women can go around with their face uncovered and young girls can wear short dresses and music can be purchased with crude and vile lyrics. Those folks are just thrilled.

What you and others have difficulty understanding is their political system is a mix of politics and religion. It's difficult for some people to grasp but imagine a person going to church and listening to rap music on their iPod.

Their political system, their everyday life, is like standing on the front lawn of a church, for lack of a better analogy. Their politics and their religion are not separate things anymore than a foreign power coming here and telling churchgoers they can vote on the 10 Commandments would be acceptable.

Why do you think the people in certain countries are not actively fighting the Taliban? Why do you think Pakistan can not control it's borders? Surely it's not due to a lack of citizens. It's due to the fact the people don't like western ways so they are not going to put up an offensive against religious leaders.

I don't know how else to explain it. We would not tolerate a foreign power saying they will set us free by allowing communities to change the day of worship from a Sunday to a Wednesday by simply voting.

We're interfering in their way of life. Pakistan, for example, is free now. So, let's get the hell out and let them fight to keep their freedom if that's what they want. And if they don't want that it's not our business.

Six years in Iraq. It's crazy. If we can't train troops in six years we better take up another hobby.

If the people of Afghanistan wanted to be free, our definition of "free", then they would be protecting their country. Why aren't they? Why are we still there?

If they want to sit in caves and try to figure out how to get a car bomb 1/2 way around the world to us let them. We just don't let them or the car bomb in our country. It's a hell of a lot easier to protect our own country as opposed to seeking out sickos in caves in Afghanistan and in mud shacks in Iraq and in tunnels in Syria and ...........

 

[apple0154]

Here is the thing, you can't really comprehend the particulars. In one case, you are trying to claim we are waging a war against a religion, and here, you seem to think the 9/11 attacks were merely a few sick people... do you understand what the Pan-Arab movement is? Have you read up on the ultimate objectives of radical Islam, to establish a Caliphate from Europe to Indonesia?

This is not the entire Muslim religion, and it's not just a hand full of sick individuals. alQaeda, and other terror groups like them, are radical religious extremists. They represent a fairly sizable chunk of the Muslim population, in that particular region of the world. That is where the problem lies, because they utilize tactics of human terror, to force their will on the people. The best way for me to explain them to a lefty is... Imagine Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have gone mad and have AK-47's! These radicals want to push people back to 5th century barbarian customs, because that is what they think is in line with their religious teachings.

I wonder what ever happened to Borat? The thing I liked about that character was, it exposed the radical Islamofascist ideology for what it was. We saw it as comedy, but that's really how the radical Islamics think! Women are about the level of a goat in society. Racist, and intolerant of any lifestyle outside their strict traditional religious mandates. Borat made fun of it, which was politically incorrect, but ever-so true.

The Radicals make up about 15% or less of the total Muslim religion. It's just that, they are largely saturated in that region, and pose a real threat to stability. On 9/11/01, they became a national security threat. We never declared war on Islam, the radicals claimed to declare war on us, on behalf of Islam. Problem is, Islams is somewhat divided on the issue.

Look at Pakistan, and Iraq/Afghanistan, for that matter, they are largely Muslim populations, yet they are not screaming "Death To America" and trying to fly planes into the buildings. Look at our biggest ally in the region, Saudi Arabia... largely Muslim, largely hard-core Muslim, but they are not sending jihadists into Iraq to blow up IED's. No, these highly Muslim countries are assisting the US in the War on Terror, helping us to round up the terrorist elements within their countries, and stamp out the militant radical troublemakers.

The Chinese Muslim separatists at Gitmo, were captured at a terror training camp in Pakistan! Do you think the US just put covert boots on the ground in Pakistan, and did this? Nope... Musharif and the Pakistan government cooperated fully... led us to them! So, this is not about a war against Muslims or the religion of Islam. It is about a problematic segment of religious extremists, who believe human terror is acceptable in a civilized world, and a valid way to achieve their ultimate objectives.

Why can't Pakistan look for those terrorists themselves? That's my point. Why isn't Musharif and the Pakistan government going on TV and radio and telling the population that if they see or hear of any terrorist to call a central number (and we all know the Pakistanis' forte is taking phone calls) and send the army or Police to apprehend them?

If the general population is terrified and won't co-operate then we've lost the war. It's as simple as that. That's why programs like "Most Wanted", etc., have great success rates. The population is behind them. People tell on other people. Our society would function quite differently if we harbored bank robbers and car thieves and murderers.

While the population may be terrified of the radicals they aren't exactly in love with the western lifestyle. Again, their lifestyle is different. Would you accept the idea of a foreign power telling us it's OK to vote on the 10 Commandments? It's the same thing for the Muslims. Their politics and religion are one and they are not voted on. Why can't western folks get that into their head. The Muslim religious people do not vote on issues anymore than we vote on issues in the church.

Their way of life is not a democracy anymore than our church is a democracy. Once western people understand that things will greatly improve.

We either play by their rules, in their country, or get out.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

What is funding a coup or backing people you like if it's not about getting our way of life (ie: our laws) spread to other countries? That's exactly how we do it. We back someone who agrees with our way of life and we interfere with the political process in that country even if the general population doesn't agree. Let's not be naive here.

"Our way of life" is democratic society, where THE PEOPLE are free from a tyrant oppressor, to make their own laws to live by. Seldom have we ever advocated freedom and liberty, and had the people reject it. The ones who reject it, are tyrant thugs who want to rule with an iron fist over others, don't you get that?

Your argument was the delusional fantasy that the US is mandating laws in other countries, and that is patently insane and absurd. You have no evidence of this, you have no examples of it.... but you claim it's going on "covertly" all over the world! You're more fruit-loopy than Desh or AssHatClown!

Sure, everyone's happy in those countries now that women can go around with their face uncovered and young girls can wear short dresses and music can be purchased with crude and vile lyrics. Those folks are just thrilled.

As a matter of fact, over 80% of the Iraqi population is participating in the national elections, and that's with the lingering threats of death and reprisal from alQaeda.

What you and others have difficulty understanding is their political system is a mix of politics and religion. It's difficult for some people to grasp but imagine a person going to church and listening to rap music on their iPod.

Here's what you need to do... go find a gas oven, turn it on, and stick your head in it. No, seriously, what you don't understand is, we fully understand many of the governments have been overthrown by radical extremists who want to force people to live by their 5th century religious mandates. We also fully understand, this is what they would impose on the entire world, if they could.

Their political system, their everyday life, is like standing on the front lawn of a church, for lack of a better analogy. Their politics and their religion are not separate things anymore than a foreign power coming here and telling churchgoers they can vote on the 10 Commandments would be acceptable.

Do you just type this stupidity as it comes into your empty head? Their politics and religion NEED TO BE SEPARATE THINGS! THAT SEEMS TO BE THE ROOT OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM, YOU MORON!

Why do you think the people in certain countries are not actively fighting the Taliban? Why do you think Pakistan can not control it's borders? Surely it's not due to a lack of citizens. It's due to the fact the people don't like western ways so they are not going to put up an offensive against religious leaders.

*SIGH* Pakistan can't control an isolated mountain range on the border of Afghanistan, because most of it is inaccessible. It's not that "people don't like western ways" as much as, there are radical extremist groups who don't like western culture, and through bullying and intimidation, have frightened many people into opposing westerners. Everywhere we have established democracy, and given the people a chance to express their democratic opinion, they have chosen western freedom and liberty.

I don't know how else to explain it. We would not tolerate a foreign power saying they will set us free by allowing communities to change the day of worship from a Sunday to a Wednesday by simply voting.

You are a fucking idiot. We're not talking about a foreign entity telling us what to do! We aren't telling Muslim people in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan what to do! They are having election and voting on what they want to do, some of it, we don't particularly agree with or like, but that is how democracy works. If the US were "in charge" of what the laws were, do you think they would have allowed Iraqi law to contain review from Islamic clerics before passage? Does that remotely sound like something we might insist on? Nope... it's what the PEOPLE of Iraq wanted, and voted on.

We're interfering in their way of life. Pakistan, for example, is free now. So, let's get the hell out and let them fight to keep their freedom if that's what they want. And if they don't want that it's not our business.

We're not interfering with anything, we have instilled democracy in places which had oppressive tyranny! We have given people the ability to vote and make political decisions, where they previously lived under harsh dictatorial regimes. It is "our business" since 9/11/01... I thought we just went through explaining that?

Six years in Iraq. It's crazy. If we can't train troops in six years we better take up another hobby.

Complain to the President, not me!

If the people of Afghanistan wanted to be free, our definition of "free", then they would be protecting their country. Why aren't they? Why are we still there?

Because the people are infiltrated with Taliban and alQaeda elements who will overthrow the government as soon as we leave.

If they want to sit in caves and try to figure out how to get a car bomb 1/2 way around the world to us let them. We just don't let them or the car bomb in our country. It's a hell of a lot easier to protect our own country as opposed to seeking out sickos in caves in Afghanistan and in mud shacks in Iraq and in tunnels in Syria and ...........

Again, you are beyond hope. As Damo pointed out, the strategy of ignoring them and being nice to them, even trying to fund them and help them, has not worked. All of our efforts to that degree, culminated in the worst terror attacks ever on US soil... so, sorry bud, we can't continue to play liberal footsie games with these people. If you want to bury your head in the sand.... feed the alligator and hope he eats you last.... that is up to you.... be thankful you live in a democracy like America, where you have that choice.

 

[apple0154]

Do you have to be forcefully and deliberately obtuse?

Did you even read my first post?

"I'm not saying we shouldn't do a bit of introspection here. But we should at least be realistic about things like who is getting attacked by Radical Muslim Extremists."

Please, start from that then re-read this inanity you posted here. See if the ideas even mesh for you.


Now to answer this inanity:

Whether it is "blown out of proportion" they have managed to take over a school in Russia killing many children and teachers, attack many targets in China, take down buildings in the US, and actively plan more attacks. They did this with the help of a government we gave money in support to and were not interfering with, we even let them blow up Buddhist statues marking the path of Buddha without stopping even one payment to them... Let them force Sharia on their populace with aplomb... Yeah, letting them alone and helping them really paid off.

I prefer to take groups like that seriously, from eco-terrorists right here in our back yard planting traps in trees and burning down lodges on mountaintops, to foreign nationals who will not be satisfied until we all pray to their magic-man, facing Mecca, while pointing our asses up to God because he will tear our eyes out if we look up while we pray.

"Do a little research" (LOL) says the idiot who thinks that Russia isn't a target, that thinks China has gotten a pass. Extremely ironic that the most ignorant cries "research" after facts are presented that showed their questions to be inanities presented by the ignorant.

Whether they have "little to do with each other" or not, they have shown themselves as effective in killing people they disagree with, even if it is their own kind after they have run out of "enemies of God". Even Russians and Chinese, amazingly enough, are targets.

Pay particular attention to the following so you can use my actual opinion to continue a conversation in which there is give and take.

While I agree that we should get out of the region, use homegrown oil and natural gas until a better source of energy is available, and let them finish their own battles, it isn't because I am stupid enough to think that Russia and China are examples of people who leave them alone and aren't targeted. I like to begin with reality when forming an opinion, apparently you form yours and just make up reality that seems to fit regardless of annoying facts.

Now if I get another post about how I should agree that we should leave them alone and that I'm arguing for continued wars I'll know that you do indeed have to be deliberately obtuse and that you can't even read what my opinion is before you try to give me bad information in support of yours.

I know what your opinion is and it doesn't make any sense because there is no organization and that's at the base of the current wars. I'll try another analogy and then I'll probably give up because you are not starting with reality.

Let's say the Hell's Angels are implicated in a plot to blow up an airport in Dallas. A month later it's leaked a chapter of the Hell's Angels are having a meeting in Toronto. Would it make any sense to invade Canada to catch the Canadian Hell's Angels? They are distinct entities just as the groups who claim to be terrorists or radicals and that's where the reality lies.

You talk about radical Muslims like they are one unified group and they are not. Invading and completely destroying a country under the pretext the radicals are all there at a conference is the lie of the decade.

There are going to be groups claiming to be radical Muslims all over the world and the vast majority of them have nothing in common except anarchy.

The group that took over the school in Russia did not require the backing of a country. It could have been pulled off by a bunch of disgruntled teenagers! The same applies to 911. Anybody with a high school education and a few flying lessons could have pulled it off. It didn't take a country to do it meaning we had no need to go on an invasion tour.

There is no need to secure Afghanistan. There is no need to secure Iraq. Sure, help them because we screwed them up pretty bad but let's train them and get out. If they remain a democracy and our friends, great. If they don't, they don't. It's not going to matter to us, security-wise, one way or the other because there will always be some wacky radical ready to blow something up.

You wrote, "Whether they have "little to do with each other" or not, they have shown themselves as effective in killing people they disagree with, even if it is their own kind after they have run out of "enemies of God".

Exactly! The point is we are not going to catch everyone in one place, in one country, so why invade a country? That's the bottom line. What the hell are we doing over there? What do you think we're going to accomplish?

Even if parts of Hell freeze over and Afghanistan and Iraq become beacons of democracy there are numerous countries that will keep the fires burning. There are lunatics in dozens of countries who will stoke the fires.

So, let's see if we can agree on this: The war on terror is not going to be won by invading countries. Agree or disagree?

 

[apple0154]

Because the people are infiltrated with Taliban and alQaeda elements who will overthrow the government as soon as we leave.

Ahhh, almost a dozen paragraphs written and one sentence blows all your arguments to hell.

It's the same old story. Now we have to stay in Pakistan to protect them from themselves. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Of course. I should have known. We can't leave Iraq because the bad boys will come. We can't leave Afghanistan because the bad boys will come. And we can't leave Pakistan because....well, because the bad boys are already there.

And, of course, the bad boys are already in Iran and Syria. And let's not forget the bad boys in North Korea. And we won't bother to list the countries in Africa.

What do you suggest we do, Dixie?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Ahhh, almost a dozen paragraphs written and one sentence blows all your arguments to hell.

It's the same old story. Now we have to stay in Pakistan to protect them from themselves. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Of course. I should have known. We can't leave Iraq because the bad boys will come. We can't leave Afghanistan because the bad boys will come. And we can't leave Pakistan because....well, because the bad boys are already there.

And, of course, the bad boys are already in Iran and Syria. And let's not forget the bad boys in North Korea. And we won't bother to list the countries in Africa.

What do you suggest we do, Dixie?

We're not currently deployed in Pakistan, unless you know something I don't. We are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we have to stay until security forces in those countries, can handle the job of security on their own. It would not make practical sense to spend the billions we've spent to liberate them, just to walk away and let the "bad guys" take back over. Yes, there are "bad guys" all over the place, we haven't advocated going into those areas yet, is this what you believe we need to do? I personally think, when we have finished instilling democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq, and finished helping Pakistan and Saudi Arabia clean up their mess, the others in Syria and Iran, as well as N Korea, will come around. If not, we can deal with them later.

You are falling into the typical liberal trap of thinking, it's hard, therefore it's not worth doing. What amazes me about you people, is how you'll fight tooth and nail to make sure a woman in America has the Constitutional right to abort her fetus on demand, or a gay couple can marry, but in a place where women are treated as subservient second-class citizens and gays are routinely stoned to death, you aren't interested in even the least bit of effort to stop it.... you say, let it continue, it's not our business!

 

[apple0154]

We're not currently deployed in Pakistan, unless you know something I don't. We are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we have to stay until security forces in those countries, can handle the job of security on their own. It would not make practical sense to spend the billions we've spent to liberate them, just to walk away and let the "bad guys" take back over. Yes, there are "bad guys" all over the place, we haven't advocated going into those areas yet, is this what you believe we need to do? I personally think, when we have finished instilling democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq, and finished helping Pakistan and Saudi Arabia clean up their mess, the others in Syria and Iran, as well as N Korea, will come around. If not, we can deal with them later.

You said we're in Pakistan to help them. Deployed there? A war? A military action? All the same BS.

We've been in Iraq for six years. If they can't defend themselves it's because 1. they don't want to or 2. we don't want them to.

As for the others let's not keep going. They are not a threat to us.

You are falling into the typical liberal trap of thinking, it's hard, therefore it's not worth doing. What amazes me about you people, is how you'll fight tooth and nail to make sure a woman in America has the Constitutional right to abort her fetus on demand, or a gay couple can marry, but in a place where women are treated as subservient second-class citizens and gays are routinely stoned to death, you aren't interested in even the least bit of effort to stop it.... you say, let it continue, it's not our business!

That's right. I'm not interested in the least bit of effort and you know why? Because I'm not prepared to offer the lives of my children or grandchildren or your children or grandchildren or our neighbor's children or grandchildren. That's why. Those lives are not mine to offer.

Now, if someone wants to grab a gun and go there by all means have at it. Just don't get the rest of the country involved.

As for women's rights, here at home, that's different because I have a wife and daughter and they're women.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You said we're in Pakistan to help them. Deployed there? A war? A military action? All the same BS.

We had the same Special Ops forces in Pakistan as Obama currently has, deploying the drones and bombing the caves. This is with the express permission and assistance of the Pakistan government. We're not "at war" with Pakistan, they are arguably our strongest ally in the region.

We've been in Iraq for six years. If they can't defend themselves it's because 1. they don't want to or 2. we don't want them to.

I'm not keeping anyone in Iraq, I suggest, if you have a complain about why the troops aren't coming home, you speak with the current administration, it is really not up to me!

I do know that the Iraqi Parliament has not requested we leave immediately, quite the contrary. What you need to try and understand, is reality of the situation here... We've established a democracy in Iraq for the first time in the history of the world. There are many who do not want to see democracy succeed there, because they know it spells the end to radical Islamic ideology. Because of that, Iraq is plagued with radical militant Islamic groups, who want to terrorize the people into submission, and we are preventing them from doing that. You simply want to make some stupid pontification about how they must not want to be free bad enough to fight... and walk away.

As for the others let's not keep going. They are not a threat to us.

No one is a threat to us, to hear you tell it! If we lived in your perfect liberal world, the whole entire planet would be singing the Coca-Cola song on some hilltop! These people were certainly a threat to 3,000 Americans on 9/11. That is indisputable.

That's right. I'm not interested in the least bit of effort and you know why? Because I'm not prepared to offer the lives of my children or grandchildren or your children or grandchildren or our neighbor's children or grandchildren. That's why. Those lives are not mine to offer.

Let me tell you something, you stupid fucktard... if we do not stand up and defeat radical Islamic fascism, we will lose entire GENERATIONS of Americans in the coming years. Again, as Damo so eloquently pointed out, ignoring the problem and pretending it would all go away if we just stayed out of it, clearly didn't work. Just as, ignoring Hitler and pretending that we could negotiate with him and coexist with Nazism... did NOT work! In retrospect, had we taken a bold and unpopular stand against Hitler in 1937, we may have saved hundreds of thousands who had to die fighting the Germans to liberate Europe. The fact that we used your exact same approach then, and it resulted in enormous casualties, is evidence that ignoring the problem, pretending it's not a big deal, is not the best way to go, if we are concerned with preserving future lives.

Now, if someone wants to grab a gun and go there by all means have at it. Just don't get the rest of the country involved.

Well, but that isn't how things work in the real world. You can't just "grab a gun and go there" ...idiot! Hey, I get it man... I understand, you have no real solid principles, and you don't really give two shits about anyone but you and your family. I wish I could suspend reality, and pretend we live in this fantasy world you've created, where America is the bad guys because we are "involved" with world affairs. I wish I could pretend that everything would be great in the world, if America just became isolationists and stayed out of everyone's business completely. My thing is, I have to be honest. I have to see the truth, and I have to live in the real world. To me, my principles are important... when I say that I believe all men are equal, it includes Iraqi men too. When I say I believe in women's rights, it means I believe women in radical Muslim countries should also have those rights. When I say I am opposed to rape, torture, persecution, oppression, and tyranny, it applies across the board, not just on things I want to cherry pick to apply it to.

As for women's rights, here at home, that's different because I have a wife and daughter and they're women.

Could they possibly be something besides women? Look... here's the deal, you either believe that women are equal to men, or you don't. You either believe it is right to allow women the same opportunity as men, or you don't. It seems, you want to apply these principles to only women here in America, as if, American women are the only ones who deserve these rights. It's not a principle worth us fighting for elsewhere, let them continue to oppress women and condemn gays, that suits you fine... as long as it isn't here, where you have to deal with it, huh?

 

[apple0154]

We had the same Special Ops forces in Pakistan as Obama currently has, deploying the drones and bombing the caves. This is with the express permission and assistance of the Pakistan government. We're not "at war" with Pakistan, they are arguably our strongest ally in the region.

I know they are our ally. So, give them the weapons they need and get out. What is your solution? Do you suggest we stay there forever? When do you think this scam called the war on terror is going to end? What is the average Pakistani citizen doing to fight this "war"? Are they continuing to go about their daily lives while the occasional US soldier gets blown apart by a car bomb?

We've established a democracy in Iraq for the first time in the history of the world. There are many who do not want to see democracy succeed there, because they know it spells the end to radical Islamic ideology. Because of that, Iraq is plagued with radical militant Islamic groups, who want to terrorize the people into submission, and we are preventing them from doing that. You simply want to make some stupid pontification about how they must not want to be free bad enough to fight... and walk away.

Same question: Do we stay there forever? Six years and to paraphrase Archie Bunker, "They can't get a decent war off the ground."

No one is a threat to us, to hear you tell it! If we lived in your perfect liberal world, the whole entire planet would be singing the Coca-Cola song on some hilltop! These people were certainly a threat to 3,000 Americans on 9/11. That is indisputable.

I'd like to buy the world a home
And furnish it with love
Grow apple trees and honey bees
And snow white turtle doves.

I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to buy the world a Coke
And keep it company

Talking about apple trees the one in my backyard is in full bloom. And the pear tree is blooming, too.

Anyway, on topic, the people responsible for 911 had nothing to do with the people in Pakistan.

Let me tell you something, you stupid fucktard... if we do not stand up and defeat radical Islamic fascism, we will lose entire GENERATIONS of Americans in the coming years. Again, as Damo so eloquently pointed out, ignoring the problem and pretending it would all go away if we just stayed out of it, clearly didn't work.

Stayed out of it? What the hell are you talking about? We've been "in it" since the end of the Second World War! Interfering, influencing, covert deals......what planet do you live on? That's why I previously asked how old you were.

We've gone from lurking in the shadows and making deals with tyrants (our type of tyrants, of course, like Saddam) to openly interfering in countries. The people in those countries have finally realized their dispute is not with their neighbor. It is with a foreign power.

Just as, ignoring Hitler and pretending that we could negotiate with him and coexist with Nazism... did NOT work! In retrospect, had we taken a bold and unpopular stand against Hitler in 1937, we may have saved hundreds of thousands who had to die fighting the Germans to liberate Europe. The fact that we used your exact same approach then, and it resulted in enormous casualties, is evidence that ignoring the problem, pretending it's not a big deal, is not the best way to go, if we are concerned with preserving future lives.

Awww, gee. Here we go again with the Hitler comparison. Look, the Islamic Extremists/Fundamentalists/whatever were already in Afghanistan and Iraq just like they're in Iran and Syria and few other places. They aren't moving in on us. We are moving in on them. They are not trying to change a democracy to an Islamic form of government. It it the western powers who are trying to change an Islamic form of government to a democracy. Now do you get it?

Well, but that isn't how things work in the real world. You can't just "grab a gun and go there" ...idiot! Hey, I get it man... I understand, you have no real solid principles, and you don't really give two shits about anyone but you and your family. I wish I could suspend reality, and pretend we live in this fantasy world you've created, where America is the bad guys because we are "involved" with world affairs. I wish I could pretend that everything would be great in the world, if America just became isolationists and stayed out of everyone's business completely. My thing is, I have to be honest. I have to see the truth, and I have to live in the real world. To me, my principles are important... when I say that I believe all men are equal, it includes Iraqi men too. When I say I believe in women's rights, it means I believe women in radical Muslim countries should also have those rights. When I say I am opposed to rape, torture, persecution, oppression, and tyranny, it applies across the board, not just on things I want to cherry pick to apply it to.

Principals, huh? Let's examine those principals a little more closely. Regarding marijuana laws do you believe in the current oppression where a person is jailed, loses their job and, thus, their home throwing their family into poverty or do you think those laws should be changed?

Could they possibly be something besides women? Look... here's the deal, you either believe that women are equal to men, or you don't. You either believe it is right to allow women the same opportunity as men, or you don't. It seems, you want to apply these principles to only women here in America, as if, American women are the only ones who deserve these rights. It's not a principle worth us fighting for elsewhere, let them continue to oppress women and condemn gays, that suits you fine... as long as it isn't here, where you have to deal with it, huh?

So, you believe in woman's equality. Great! The next time a woman is arrested for prostitution can we expect to see Dixie at the court house protesting? Well, actually more than protesting. If they jail the woman can we count on you to grab a gun and try to free her or do you believe the government has ownership and control of her body?

Is your high talking, noble, chivalrous words just bullshit like that of most people who talk about freeing other countries/people while they impose oppressive laws at home? When it comes to freeing women the government has no right to tell them to cover their face but every right to demand they cover their breasts? Foreign governments have no right to insist women be accompanied by a male when leaving their house but we have people here who insist the government force a woman to bear a child she does not want.

I wonder where you stand on woman's rights. Going topless? Prostitution? Abortion?

What about gays in the military? Or a person sitting on a park bench enjoying a doobie?

Tell us about your love of freedom and noble ideals. I'd love to hear about them.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Dennis Blair Press Conference 3/27/09

During his news conference, Blair also said the Obama administration is still wrestling with what to do with the remaining 240 detainees at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, which the president has ordered closed.

Some of the detainees, deemed non-threatening, may be released into the United States as free men, Blair confirmed.

That would happen when they can't be returned to their home countries, because the governments either won't take them or the U.S. fears they will be abused or tortured. That is the case with 17 Uighers (WEE'-gurz), Chinese Muslim separatists who were cleared for release from the jail long ago. The U.S. can't find a country willing to take them, and it will not turn them over to China.

Blair said the former prisoners would have get some sort of assistance to start their new lives in the United States.

"We can't put them out on the street," he said.

==========================================


Well this is just lovely! Our 401k's are tanking, we have no retirement left, our Social Security is gone, and we're headed toward $2 trillion deficits, but we're now going to issue welfare checks to former Gitmo detainees! ...So they can start their new lives in the US!

Tell me something pinheads... If we can't find a country that will take these people, how can we just release them in the US? How have we "deemed them non-threatening?" ...Is it the fact that they aren't on an airplane? Is it because they haven't specifically threatened to kill us all? Seems to me, 19 "foreign exchange students" living a fairly "non-threatening" life, were able to perpetrate the worst attack ever on American soil.

Has anyone really thought this Closing Gitmo thing through? Or is it just one of those Liberal Causes we have to get shoved down our throat, whether it's good for us or not?

So, being detained and interrogated for years without ever being formally charged with anything is of no consequence. Hmm, so far 500 people were kicked from Gitmo without so much as a "pardon me"....500 people who's lives were irrevocably changed, damaged and/or ruined. Yeah, they and their families & friends will be real supportative of US presence in the Middle East. Now you have a 17 more people that the Rummy geniuses have to admit "aren't threatening" (neocon speak for "innocent" of being Al Qaida)....17 more people we've screwed over. And someone says, let's help them out. You wail about costs?!!?? What will be paid to them wouldn't buy you a years worth of tickets to all the fund raisers the GOP will have to throw to pony up a decent campaign in 2012. Like the man said, you broke it---you own it.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
We had the same Special Ops forces in Pakistan as Obama currently has, deploying the drones and bombing the caves. This is with the express permission and assistance of the Pakistan government. We're not "at war" with Pakistan, they are arguably our strongest ally in the region.

I know they are our ally. So, give them the weapons they need and get out. What is your solution? Do you suggest we stay there forever? When do you think this scam called the war on terror is going to end? What is the average Pakistani citizen doing to fight this "war"? Are they continuing to go about their daily lives while the occasional US soldier gets blown apart by a car bomb?

Why don't you ask the current administration why we are still fighting this war? I really don't have much of a say in it. I kind of get the impression, Obama is in favor of continuing to fight the war on terror, so he would be the one you might need to talk to about that.

It doesn't really matter how long it takes to fight the war on terror, does it? I mean, one day was one too many for you, right? So let me answer your question with a hypothetical for you to consider, maybe that will help you understand... Let's say that, tomorrow, by some unthinkable act, all of your Constitutional rights and human rights, ceased to exist. Any and all "rights" you may have, are only granted if you fight daily for them. When you choose to no longer fight, you will lose all freedom and liberty forever. Under those circumstances, how long would you continue to fight? What would be a reasonable amount of time to fight for your freedom?

...Or would you even put up a fight?