"God is dead"

Cypress said:
Not mine. It's the interpretation of noted Nietzsche scholars Robert Solomon and Kathleen Higgins. And they love Nietzsche, they are not anti- Nietzsche partisans.
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Arguing with trolls should only be done when extremely bored.

Ignoring them is often the best policy. They'll become bored themselves and go off to a corner to jerk off or play with their assholes.

Meanwhile, back to prominent German Lutherans, there's Pastor Martin Niemöller. While I like some parts of Nietzsche, Niemöller is better as a social philosophy:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-biography
Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps, despite his ardent nationalism. Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation: “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out...”

The son of Lutheran pastor Heinrich Niemöller, Martin Niemöller was born in the Westphalian town of Lippstadt, Germany, on January 14, 1892. In 1910 he became a cadet in the Imperial German Navy. With the outbreak of World War I in 1914, Niemöller was assigned to a U-Boat, of which he was eventually appointed the commander. Under the stipulations of the armistice of November 11, 1918, that ended hostilities in World War I, Niemöller and other commanders were ordered to turn over their U-Boats to England. Along with many others, Niemöller refused to obey this order, and was, as a consequence, discharged from the Navy.
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First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Arguing with trolls should only be done when extremely bored.

Ignoring them is often the best policy. They'll become bored themselves and go off to a corner to jerk off or play with their assholes.

Meanwhile, back to prominent German Lutherans, there's Pastor Martin Niemöller. While I like some parts of Nietzsche, Niemöller is better as a social philosophy:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-biography


First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller
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nice

I don't think I've ever read or learned about a philosopher or theologian I completely agreed with. I just try to pick out the parts that speak to me. The thing about Nietzsche is not necessarily that he is a great teacher or sage, but he makes us think.
 
Cypress said:
nice

I don't think I've ever read or learned about a philosopher or theologian I completely agreed with. I just try to pick out the parts that speak to me. The thing about Nietzsche is not necessarily that he is a great teacher or sage, but he makes us think.
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He presented an intelligent alternative view....not that anyone has to completely agree with him. LOL

His contemporary, Karl Marx, was labeling religion as an opiate of the people in the same era Fred was dissing religion. While there's some truth in their writings, I think they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater in their condemnation of spiritual beliefs.

https://depts.washington.edu/chid/i...demptive_Narratives_in_Marx_and_Nietzsche.pdf
Though their methods differ, Karl Marx and Friedrich Nietzsche are allied on one major
point: the refutation of religion. Marx describes religion as a drug used to soothe the misery
of the masses, while Nietzsche considers it a tool employed by the weak to manipulate the
nobility. Despite their shared disbelief in transcendent beings, both philosophers came to
express themselves through a secular redemption; reflections of the religious doctrines they
were taught as children. In analyzing man's state, Marx sees an opportunity for man to
transform from a stratified society to an egalitarian one, whereas Nietzsche sees an
opportunity for a reversal of the master-slave relationship into a more distinct separation,
between the common man and the Overman. On the path to redemption, Nietzsche
proclaims the death of God, where Marx predicts the death of capitalism. Both preach for a
redemptive end result.
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Dutch Uncle said:
He presented an intelligent alternative view....not that anyone has to completely agree with him. LOL

His contemporary, Karl Marx, was labeling religion as an opiate of the people in the same era Fred was dissing religion. While there's some truth in their writings, I think they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater in their condemnation of spiritual beliefs.

https://depts.washington.edu/chid/i...demptive_Narratives_in_Marx_and_Nietzsche.pdf
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I think Nietzsche has a point that an obsession with guilt and salvation that can come from a Christian ethical and theological framework can be debilitating and prevent one from living this life to the fullest.

The only thing I think Marx was right about is that in principle the profit motive and unrestrained capitalism can lead to oppression and degradation of human dignity
 
Cypress said:
I think Nietzsche has a point that an obsession with guilt and salvation that can come from a Christian ethical and theological framework can be debilitating and prevent one from living this life to the fullest.

The only thing I think Marx was right about is that in principle the profit motive and unrestrained capitalism can lead to oppression and degradation of human dignity
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He's right that anything can be taken to excess, including religion. Also agreed on Marx' comments.

Oddly, both Nietzsche and Marx were taken to excess; one by the Nazis and the other by the communists, specifically Stalin and Mao. The result was the mass murder of millions and deaths of millions more.

Does this mean Nietzsche and Marx are evil? No. Just that some people can twist anything into evil.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
He's right that anything can be taken to excess, including religion. Also agreed on Marx' comments.

Oddly, both Nietzsche and Marx were taken to excess; one by the Nazis and the other by the communists, specifically Stalin and Mao. The result was the mass murder of millions and deaths of millions more.

Does this mean Nietzsche and Marx are evil? No. Just that some people can twist anything into evil.
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Good point.

I don't think Nietzsche or Marx would have been happy with how their names were hijacked.

Marx did not support totalitarianism and oppression..

Nietzsche was repulsed by his brother in law, who was a proto-fascist.
 
Cypress said:
Good point.

I don't think Nietzsche or Marx would have been happy with how their names were hijacked.

Marx did not support totalitarianism and oppression..

Nietzsche was repulsed by his brother in law, who was a proto-fascist.
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Agreed. Which brings up an interesting part of history: How the words and ideas of ancient figures can be twisted to serve selfish assholes in the present.

Consider Christianity as an example, be it the Spanish Inquisition or America's Evangelistas.
 
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