Augustine’s application of Plato to explain God as opposed to Aquinas borrowing from Aristotle
God -- really?
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Augustine’s application of Plato to explain God as opposed to Aquinas borrowing from Aristotle
BidenPresident
Verified User
Okay. Not sure why you posted that. How was that an answer to my question?
Plato did not argue for belief.
I was responding to “Plato did not argue for belief. Not sure what you're asserting. In many ways, Plato was more a rationalist than Aristotle,” didn’t see a question there
BidenPresident
Verified User
WHERE DID PLATO ARGUE FOR BELIEF?
Mechanistic explanations for how things happen is important, but to many of the greatest philisophers and intellects in western history, it is does not provide true knowlege of ultimate reality.
I understand mechanistically that a quantuum singularity may have resulted in the universe we observe. The "why?" question is what has occupied natural philosophers and the naturally inquisitive
BidenPresident
Verified User
Exactly.
I do not have a link, but these are my notes from a class on Greek philosophy I took.
It was Xenophanes of Miletus I was thinking of, a 6th century BCE pre-Socratic Ionian philosopher.
BidenPresident
Verified User
Thanks. I actually know Roochnik, he was a professor at mine at Penn State.
Here is a quotation attributed to Xenophanes: "But without toil he sways all things by the thought of his mind.
He always remains in the same place, without moving at all; nor does it suit him to go about here or there." https://www.utm.edu/staff/jfieser/class/110/1-presocratics.htm
Aristotle considers God to be the cause of all motion. But God is not the cause of the physical universe.
Exactly. Maybe reality is nothing but a subatomic collection fermions, hadrons, and bosons and there is no deeper reality than that.
On the flip side, we have pretty good mathematical equations which mechanistically describe how space, time, energy, matter are all interrelated, interchangeable. But a lot of people think it is interesting to ask why it should be like that.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Forward infinity is imaginable.
Just more of the same shit forever.
The human minds struggles with the concept of backwards infinity.
If there was truly a beginning, what was before that?
It doesn't make sense, and if you go strictly by perceptible evidence, coming up with a god creator doesn't help explain anything.
I would offer this much.
If there really was an omnipotent creator, then this universe doesn't represent very much of an effort on the creator's part.
Certainly not an effort worthy of worship.
An omnipotent creator would be capable of much better.
I just can't seem to suspend logic sufficiently to NOT see religion as a form of mental illness.
Smart people who would accept no other important premise on the same quality of evidence and logic do accept the premise of a divine creator.
If they're smart about other things, it can't be lack of intelligence.
It has to be a form of insanity.
Just more of the same shit forever.
The human minds struggles with the concept of backwards infinity.
If there was truly a beginning, what was before that?
It doesn't make sense, and if you go strictly by perceptible evidence, coming up with a god creator doesn't help explain anything.
I would offer this much.
If there really was an omnipotent creator, then this universe doesn't represent very much of an effort on the creator's part.
Certainly not an effort worthy of worship.
An omnipotent creator would be capable of much better.
I just can't seem to suspend logic sufficiently to NOT see religion as a form of mental illness.
Smart people who would accept no other important premise on the same quality of evidence and logic do accept the premise of a divine creator.
If they're smart about other things, it can't be lack of intelligence.
It has to be a form of insanity.
BidenPresident
Verified User
I like the reasoning of Aristotle against infinite regress. If we keep going for a cause before each cause we can never explain anything.
Thus, the universe always existed. There is an intelligence to the universe, but for Aristotle, this God did not create the universe.
Christians tried to personalize the universe with a God we can communicate with. But this only puts the same questions into God--the why question is another infinite regress.
Yeah. Is there the 'Watch Maker' behind everything, or is just Randomness.
I think some people just need 'Order' in their Lives. Belief in 'God' is like having a warm blanket to protect you from the Cold.
The thought of existing on a mudball as it spins through space with no one at the helm is a terrifying concept.
What does Randomness refer to? What investment have you made toward Randomness?
What value is randomness?
What value is 'Watch Maker'?
Don't care for my semantics?
Your quote amounts only to poetry. Poetic musing aka "flowery words"
So all the pre-columbian and pre-Colonial regions of the world were filled with terrified people going about their terrifying lives?
No YOU DON'T KNOW GOD!
Just like you don't know Derrick Jetter or Lady Gaga or Melania's sisters.
You have no know-how ---yet feel prompted to backseat driving.
It's the 'ME of Esteem'/'ME without Esteem' quagmire. (does help exist?)
I'm not concerned with it. If there is a Level II, I'll deal with it when I get there.media doesn't enlighten you.
you can't fight cityhall.
taxes and death are sure.
Rat races and dog-eat-dogs
small egos mal-fed superficial pastimes
lusty musks spinning heads in constant traffic
old age disease and deaths
Live fast die young and have a good looking corpse?
"SOME people just need 'Order' in their Lives ---lest they be terrified."
you can't fight cityhall.
taxes and death are sure.
Rat races and dog-eat-dogs
small egos mal-fed superficial pastimes
lusty musks spinning heads in constant traffic
old age disease and deaths
Live fast die young and have a good looking corpse?
"SOME people just need 'Order' in their Lives ---lest they be terrified."