God -- really?

bhaktajan said:
What do you do for a living? What do you PERSONALLY do for a living?


How do you MAKE a living?

Is it similar to how a farmer grows crops?
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I collect Rents and receive Quarterly Dividends while watching Stocks Appreciate in Value. (does this have something to do with God, Life, and Why some are Chosen?)
 
Cypress said:
Big crunch sounded plausible 30 years ago when we were operating under the assumptions of Newtonian gravitational laws.

With the discovery of dark energy, it seems the universe will expand forever until all nuclear fuel is used up, it goes dark, and space time reaches absolute zero Kelvin.

Before that happens, I am looking forward to the imminent collision of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies!
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:) Yes. Time well spent.
 
Cypress said:
Maybe not. As I said, maybe reality is nothing but a collection of subatomic fermions, hadrons, and bosons, with no deeper meaning or higher truth.

Not a view I subscribe to, but I understand it is a possibility
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I never asserted physicalism, that only the physical world is real.
 
Ye gods, it doth amaze me (Shakespeare)
~~
Buddhists dont worry about God/gods. Gods dont intercede in our lives, so let the gods do what gods do
we must take responsibility for our lives.

But I'm fond of a loving God of Christianity -certainly the New Testament is a worthy life
so let the gods sort it out, and God help us all
 
Now, when I talked to God, I knew He'd understand
He said, "Stick by my side and I'll be your guiding hand
But don't ask me what I think of you
I might not give the answer that you want me to"

 
dukkha said:
Ye gods, it doth amaze me (Shakespeare)
~~
Buddhists dont worry about God/gods. Gods dont intercede in our lives, so let the gods do what gods do
we must take responsibility for our lives.
<snip>
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I understood that Mahayana Buddhism has a pantheon of deities, often adopted from the indigenous cultures where Buddhism took root.
 
BidenPresident said:
I never asserted physicalism, that only the physical world is real.
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Okay gotcha.

I have no doubt that leptons, quarks, and higgs bosons are real.

My belief - yes, belief - is that our minds, our reason, our rationality have limits and may not be capable of grasping deeper realities and higher truths that exist independent of our sensory perceptions and mental faculties. I view it as a form of humility.

Just my two cents.

In short, I hope ultimate reality is more than a collection of elementary particles and energy fields we can measure or infer in particle accelerators.
 
Cypress said:
Okay gotcha.

I have no doubt that leptons, quarks, and higgs bosons are real.

My belief - yes, belief - is that our minds, our reason, our rationality have limits and may not be capable of grasping deeper realities and higher truths that exist independent of our sensory perceptions and mental faculties. I view it as a form of humility.

Just my two cents.

In short, I hope ultimate reality is more than a collection of elementary particles and energy fields we can measure or infer in particle accelerators.
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I have no idea what you mean by ultimate reality.
 
BidenPresident said:
I have no idea what you mean by ultimate reality.
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Plato's concept of the ideal forms, or Kant's theory of the noumenal, or the Hindu concept of Brahma are three examples out of many.

I personally do not know with certainty and clarity what it really is either.
 
Cypress said:
Plato's concept of the ideal forms, or Kant's theory of the noumenal, or the Hindu concept of Brahma are three examples out of many.

I personally do not know with certainty and clarity what it really is either.
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Plato's forms were ideas which structure our concepts. Not sure what attributing ultimate reality to them proves.


What Plato and Kant were arguing for is that our experience is structured and we can discover those structures. But where they are wrong is that the structures themselves are not
the truths of our experience and are only abstractions.
 
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BidenPresident said:
Plato's forms were ideas which structure our concepts. Not sure what attributing ultimate reality to them proves.


What Plato and Kant were arguing for is that our experience is structured and we can discover those structures. But where they are wrong is that the structures themselves are not
the truths of our experience and are only abstractions.
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I am just stating what scholars say: Plato's allegory of the cave and his theory of ideal forms is Plato's way of articulating ultimate reality.

Unveiling Ultimate Reality in Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" and the "Bhagavad Gita"
https://www.google.com/amp/www.inqu...os-allegory-of-the-cave-and-the-bhagavad-gita

In basic terms, Plato's Theory of Forms asserts that the physical world is not really the 'real' world; instead, ultimate reality exists beyond our physical world. ...
https://study.com/academy/lesson/th...erts that there,realm and the spiritual realm.
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It is not my opinion, I have no idea if Plato's alkegory of the cave is a reflection of ultimate reality and a higher truth..


I do not know empirically what ultimate reality is, or if there is a meaning to life.

What I do know is that science and reason do not provide us objective knowlege or truth. Scientific knowlege is always provisional, and limitations on reason are imposed by human psychology and cognitive capacity.

With that framework, it is clear to me that there is a higher truth, an ultimate reality we do not have access to through technology, science, or reason
 
"I am just stating what scholars say: Plato's allegory of the cave and his theory of ideal forms is Plato's way of articulating ultimate reality."

One person saying something does not establish truth.


"it is clear to me that there is a higher truth, an ultimate reality we do not have access to through technology, science, or reason"

If you want to express your opinion you can. There is nothing to discuss, then.
 
BidenPresident said:
"I am just stating what scholars say: Plato's allegory of the cave and his theory of ideal forms is Plato's way of articulating ultimate reality."

One person saying something does not establish truth.


"it is clear to me that there is a higher truth, an ultimate reality we do not have access to through technology, science, or reason"

If you want to express your opinion you can. There is nothing to discuss, then.
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Since I do not have a PhD in philosophy, I place a lot of weight and credibility on trained academic scholars

"Plato’s ontological and epistemological teaching is that with the right education, one possessing the proper constitution can advance from mere opinion of sensible particulars to true knowledge of the eternal, unchanging Forms—i.e., of ultimate reality."

- Dr. Michael Sugrue, professor of philosophy, Princeton University
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"Since I do not have a PhD in philosophy, I place a lot of weight and credibility on trained academic scholars"


You do realize that philosophy is about making arguments, not citing authorities.

I could cite 5 scholars differing with any one scholar you cite. That is not philosophy.
 
BidenPresident said:
"Since I do not have a PhD in philosophy, I place a lot of weight and credibility on trained academic scholars"


You do realize that philosophy is about making arguments, not citing authorities.

I could cite 5 scholars differing with any one scholar you cite. That is not philosophy.
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I stated that Plato's concept of the ideal forms, or Kant's theory of the noumenal world, or the Hindu concept of Brahma are three philosophical examples of a higher truth, or an ultimate reality, higher reality.

I backed my statement up by trained scholarly experts, PhDs in philosophy who agree with me, therefore demonstrating my statement was neither preposterous nor misinformed.
 
Cypress said:
I stated that Plato's concept of the ideal forms, or Kant's theory of the noumenal, or the Hindu concept of Brahma are three philosophical examples of a higher truth, an ultimate reality.

I backed my statement up by trained scholarly experts who agree with me, therefore demonstrating my statement was neither preposterous or misinformed.
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You have a very elementary understanding of the ideas you refer to. The etymology of "sophomore" is "wise fool." You confuse your elementary understanding with mastery.

If you were not arrogant I would leave it be. But you speak without knowledge.
 
BidenPresident said:
You have a very elementary understanding of the ideas you refer to. The etymology of "sophomore" is "wise fool." You confuse your elementary understanding with mastery.

If you were not arrogant I would leave it be. But you speak without knowledge.
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That is not a rebuttal to what I said.

You asked for examples of higher reality.

I gave you several.

I also posted statements from PhD philosophers who agreed with my statement.

You just do not want to accept the PhD level philosophers agree with what I posted.

I get that you don't like the answer that I and a coterie of PhD philosophers gave you.

That is fine if you did not like my answer.
 
Biden President,

Your favorite philosophy teacher from Penn State also agrees with me.

I said Plato's theory of the forms was his articulation of an ultimate reality, a higher truth.
>> https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?154785-God-really&p=4056623#post4056623

Your favorite teacher says the same thing.

Plato conceived of an ultimate reality and truth, to which he gave the name “Form.”

-Dr. David Roochnik, professor of philosophy, Boston University , Introduction to Greek Philosophy course guidebook
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