god/religion and candidates

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
the only thing that candidates should be examined for is their honesty and morality

the reality...whatever they think we will believe

the problem is that if a candidate is honest, all it does is give their opponents ammunition to use against them

still, i would like to see a hilary/obama ticket, it might bring us 12+ years of effective leadership

however, my wife still does forgive black men in general because women worked to get them the vote and full civil rights and when they got them, they forgot all about the women who helped them

they even turned against votes for women

can we ever be sure of our friends or who they are?

'keeps your friends close and your enemies closer' julius caesar

do we have the government and politicians we deserve?
 
Why would God endorse any petty slimy political candidate ?
Maybe god is a politician ? He does always seem to need a lot of money...
 
According to the Bible, nobody gets in office without His endorsement.
So Hitler's Chancellory was endorsed by god? Stalin's leadership of an athiest government was endorced by god? Saddam Husain's overthrow was the US flying in the face of god's plan?
 
So Hitler's Chancellory was endorsed by god? Stalin's leadership of an athiest government was endorced by god? Saddam Husain's overthrow was the US flying in the face of god's plan?

This line of thinking has been injected into christianity through talmudic masons. Pay no mind.
 
So Hitler's Chancellory was endorsed by god? Stalin's leadership of an athiest government was endorced by god? Saddam Husain's overthrow was the US flying in the face of god's plan?
Yup. The belief is that you must follow the law. If the government is bad it is because you are being "punished" as a people, so forth. Jesus even talked about it.
 
the only thing that candidates should be examined for is their honesty and morality

the reality...whatever they think we will believe

the problem is that if a candidate is honest, all it does is give their opponents ammunition to use against them

still, i would like to see a hilary/obama ticket, it might bring us 12+ years of effective leadership

however, my wife still does forgive black men in general because women worked to get them the vote and full civil rights and when they got them, they forgot all about the women who helped them

they even turned against votes for women

can we ever be sure of our friends or who they are?

'keeps your friends close and your enemies closer' julius caesar

do we have the government and politicians we deserve?


still, i would like to see a hilary/obama ticket, it might bring us 12+ years of effective leadership


Yeah, but you ranked honesty high, and I don't think Hillary is all that honest or forthcoming.
 
Expecting honesty from a politician if pretty niave. To use an anology. A politician is like a lump of shit. Used properly you can use the lump of shit to grow food and flowers......but it still smells like a lump of shit.
 
Expecting honesty from a politician if pretty niave. To use an anology. A politician is like a lump of shit. Used properly you can use the lump of shit to grow food and flowers......but it still smells like a lump of shit.


Honesty is a pretty broad term. I can understand a certain level of ambition and rhetorical dissembling among any politician. I even think Dennis Kucinch and Ron Paul dissemble to a degree.

I think its important to elect someone, however, that is as forthright as possible about their values, and isn't prone to massive pandering to provide a smokescreen for their real values or agenda.

Hillary is someone who strikes me as someone who will dissemble and pander to an excessive degree.
 
CHeck out this theocratic totalitarian crap.

Dispensationalism is evil and is the predominant form of christianity tooday.
http://www.gracenotes.info/topics/dispensations.html
Third Dispensation (Gen. 8:15): Human Government
This dispensation began when Noah and his family left the ark. As Noah went into a new situation, God subjected humanity to a new test. Heretofore no man had the right to take another man's life (compare Gen. 4:10,11,14-15,23,24). In this new dispensation, although man's direct moral responsibility to God continued, God delegated to him certain areas of authority, in which he was to obey God through submission to his fellow man. So God instituted a corporate relationship of man to man in human government.

The highest function of government is the protection of human life, out of which arises the responsibility for capital punishment. Man is not individually to avenge murder, but as a corporate group he is to safeguard the sanctity of human life as a gift of God which cannot rightly be disposed of except as God permits. The powers that be are ordained of God, and to resist the power is to resist God. Whereas in the preceding dispensation restraint upon men was internal (Gen. 6:3),God's Spirit working through moral responsibility, now a new and external restraint was added, i.e. the power of civil government.
 
All these dispensations are based on theories derived from the "oral law" of judaism. Or the talmud. Jesus was against these fascistic teachings.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=10899
2003-08-15
The Jesus Movie Gibson Should Make
by David Klinghoffer

Jewish leaders continue to decry Mel Gibson’s forthcoming Jesus movie for supposedly threatening to whip up anti-Semitism. Due out next April, "The Passion" identifies Jewish priests as instigators of the crucifixion. Maimonides, too, in his Mishnah Torah, affirms Jewish involvement in Jesus’ execution — which must make the greatest of medieval Jewish sages an anti-Semite, too.

But the film I’d like to see produced that would really make some Jews nervous, while teaching a healthy lesson: an honest depiction not of Jesus’ death, but of his preaching. The Christian Bible makes clear what was probably the main theme of his sermons. It is a theme that many liberal rabbis, to their discomfort, would feel obliged to endorse.

Today’s secular historians generally assert that Jesus was a loyal adherent of Pharisaic (rabbinic) Judaism. They argue against the conventional Christian understanding that Jesus radically critiqued Judaism. On this, the Christians are right.

True, Jesus is repeatedly quoted in the gospels as embracing Torah observance (e.g., Matthew 5:17-18). He must have accepted certain broadly defined mitzvot like the Sabbath and Temple sacrifice, because his followers were still practicing these commandments just after his death.

What Jesus rejected was the oral Torah that explains the written Torah. Essential to rabbinic Judaism, this notion of an oral Torah recognizes the Pentateuch as a cryptic document, a coded text. It posits that the Bible’s first five books were revealed to Moses along with a key to unlock the code — for a lock is never made without a key.

This oral tradition was passed from Moses to the prophets to the rabbis, later to be written down in the Mishnah and Talmud. At least that’s the theory presented in the first chapter of the Mishnah’s tractate Pirke Avot, a theory that still animates traditional Judaism.

On point after point, Jesus derides not the written Torah but its orally transmitted interpretations. He does so on matters like the details of Sabbath observance (no carrying objects in a public space, no harvesting produce or use of healing salves except to save a life), donating a yearly half shekel to the Temple, refraining from bathing and anointing on fast days like Yom Kippur, hand washing before eating bread and praying with a quorum.

Stated this way, laundry-list fashion, such commandments from the oral tradition might seem like trivialities, as they did to Jesus. But from the constellation of such discrete teachings there emerges the gorgeous pointillist masterpiece of Torah — not merely "the Torah," the finite text of the Pentateuch that the Christian founder accepted, but the infinite tradition of Judaism as a whole, reflecting God’s mind as applied to human affairs.

For Jesus, oral Torah was a manmade accretion without transcendent authority. He tells a group of Pharisees, "So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God," citing Isaiah. "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matthew 15:7-9).

Elsewhere, "Woe to you lawyers also! For you load men with burdens hard to bear" (Luke 12:46).

From this position, it was a logical next step to that of the apostle Paul, who abrogated the Torah altogether, oral and written. Abandon the former and you’ll soon abandon the latter.

A phenomenally charismatic person, Jesus mocked the Jewish establishment of his day and was adulated by a following from Galilee, the region where he conducted his brief ministry, famous in this period (as professor Geza Vermes shows) for the ignorance of the local populace. Knowing no better, loathing Pharisees as their own teacher did, they thought Jesus uniquely had Judaism all figured out.

Sound familiar? Reform ideology has always viewed oral tradition as being pretty much nothing more than the "precepts of men," while the Conservative movement increasingly understands it as a human creation, "hard to bear." Having grown up in a Los Angeles-area Reform community, I can testify that most Reform and Conservative temples impart a level of lay education that is approximately Galilean. As radio commentator Michael Medved has memorably said, the majority of Jews in our country know little about Judaism other than that it rejects Jesus.

Yet when it comes to the oral Torah, most American Jews follow Jesus without know it.

Mr. Gibson, please consider making another movie, a prequel about his career before the crucifixion showing how much Christianity we have unwittingly absorbed.

Torah indeed necessitates rejecting Christianity, but that means rejecting also the Christian view on the most fundamental of concepts in all Judaism: oral Torah. A Jesus movie about his life as a preacher would be a good dose of reality, if unpopular with our beloved Jewish leaders — not, come to think of it, unlike the film that Gibson will give us next year.
 
"So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God," citing Isaiah. "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matthew 15:7-9).
 
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