God

[Dutch Uncle]

So it is solely your belief that the wall doesn't exist because you don't have enough evidence that it does. QED.

I disbelieve in unicorns too. I'm a unicorn atheist. Go figure. LOL

 

[IBDaMann]

Can God make Iraqi can’t move?

Sure, I guess He'd just paralyze him or something.

 

[IBDaMann]

My position as an agnostic

You don't know what an agnostic is. Anything you have to say on the matter is likely erroneous.

is that our primate brains are not capable of achieving omniscience, that our sensory perception and simian cognition do not have the ability to perceive and correctly interpret all true knowledge**, and that some questions probably don't have answers we can grasp, and probably never will.

I was correct. This has nothing to do with agnosticism. You don't even know what the term means.

As I have mentioned several times previously, what you are stating here is correct, and not a matter of opinion. It has been proven mathematically. Goedell's Incompleteness Theorem. There's no more point to discussing "opinions" on the matter than there is discussing opinions on the length of a hypotenuse given the two other sides of a right triangle.

 

[IBDaMann]

Collectively, I think our species is very capable of understanding all natural laws of our Universe.

... and you're mistaken. Goedell's Incompleteness Theorem says that we can't. But if you try really, really hard, you can make that brain stem of yours deny the entire theorem altogether.

A minor example is the Apollo project to the Moon. No single person could do that. It was a collective of human beings that made it happen.

Too funny! This is a minor example of understanding all natural laws of our universe! Yesssss! Terry, we're going to get you your own HBO comedy special.

To understand all the workings of our Universe may require the assistance of AI,

Can't be done.

but I think we can do it since the information is discernible.

Like everything beyond the observable universe? You rock, Terry. Your sedation is on its way.

 

[IBDaMann]

Why does the cosmos have a mathematical scaffolding,

Who says it does? Do you see any when you look into a mound of dirt? Were you planning on defining this currently undefined term that you just pulled out of your armpit?

Yep. I did read that correctly ... "mathematical scaffolding." That's a new one.

why are there universal physical constants, and where did they come from?

gfm7175 can tell you. Just wait until he gets back online.

What we know is that *if* there is an intelligent creator, the universal constants are His Lotto number picks. If there is no intelligent creator then the universal constants are a secret code for the formula for worm food.

 

[IBDaMann]

I am just in awe of the universe and life.

... unless it would be more convenient to kill it, right?

 

[IBDaMann]

The Universe is logical.

Terry, Terry, Terry ... the universe (with a lower case "u") can't think or reason any more than you can, and you at least have a brain stem. The universe does not.

It's the cosmic equivalent of a clock in how it runs on the large scale.

Terry, Terry, Terry ... a random dust cloud does not exhibit clockwork. You might have overtaxed your brain stem.

On the smaller scale, like ours, there seems to be more randomness.

Terry ... there doesn't "seem" to be any more randomness, or any less as the context changes.

Do you really believe that if the Earth has another impact event, it's just random?

Terry, Terry, Terry ... ease up on the brain stem and just go with the definitions:

Do you have any idea when such an event will happen? No?
Do you have any control over any part of such an event happening? No?

It's a random event.

That given timely information on its orbit, the asteroid's impact upon the Earth couldn't have been predicted thousands or even millions of year ago?

If you could, and thus were to, calculate the time of impact, you would then know when the event would happen. It would then not be random.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Two opposite reactions cannot happen at the same time and this even applies to God.

it can if the reaction is in the minds of humans when they experience God......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

That's not evidence of an Abrahamic God.

Why couldn't it be a Hindu god, or the Sikh God?

This just means we either don't have the tools or the cognitive abilities to understand it.

it became easier since only one deity gave us a tool........a Bible that said "I AM the one who did it!".......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

it can if the reaction is in the minds of humans when they experience God......

here's proof....

There is no evidence of God. Zero. None. It is impossible to provide evidence of a supernatural being. You aren't very bright, are you?

 

[Cypress]

The Universe is logical. It has laws. It's the cosmic equivalent of a clock in how it runs on the large scale. On the smaller scale, like ours, there seems to be more randomness.

Do you really believe that if the Earth has another impact event, it's just random? That given timely information on its orbit, the asteroid's impact upon the Earth couldn't have been predicted thousands or even millions of year ago?

What's inside our Universe is knowable. What's outside, not so much. LOL

For those who like puzzles, learning about the Universe is the greatest puzzle of all. We can wonder about what's outside the Universe, but, so far, we can only learn what's on the inside.

1) It sounds like circular reasoning to me: mathmatical laws exist because the universe is logical, the universe is logical because it is mathmatically ordered. The premise is in need of proof as much as the conclusion is.

That's not scientifically or philosophically satisfying to me. Just my two cents.

Why does the universe have to be ordered rather than disordered? Why do unitless physical constants exist, and why do their values fall into a finely tuned range allowing order, matter,, and life possible? Make small changes to a constant or two, and matter doesn't exist, only energy. Why does such a finely tuned mathmatical scaffolding exist, and where does it come from?

Those are metaphysical questions, but I'm not saying they prove or disapprove anything about gods.


2) As for comets and asteroids, they aren't random because they follow precise trajectories and velocities dictated by the laws of celestial mechanics. Laplace's demon should have been able to predict the asteroid strike at the end of the Cretaceous because the asteroid's trajectory and the trajectory of the Earth are strictly deterministic.


3) I like the idea of your puzzle because it reminds me that we can only see and observe a very tiny part of the universe, and we can only see the universe as it existed in the remote past. Most of the universe we can't see, and we cannot observe what it looks like today.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Personally I respect those who believe. .

lol.......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

That means God is OK with losing some of his beloved creation to damnation. That is theologically problematic for me.

you would prefer to be in a creation in which you had no choices?.....

 

[Cypress]

It continues to be a driving point in politics and governance.

I think you're right, one cannot understand history, culture, or politics if one ignores religious context.

 

[Cypress]

it became easier since only one deity gave us a tool........a Bible that said "I AM the one who did it!".......

Genesis was written by men. Most likely men of a priestly class of ancient Bronze age semitic people who became the Hebrew tribes.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

I disbelieve in unicorns too. I'm a unicorn atheist. Go figure. LOL

That's my point exactly.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

lol.......

Why do you find that lol-worthy? Almost all of my friends are believers, and they live good lives. They don't bear false witness, they do unto others as they would have done to them, they don't live by the sword, they are good people and they gain a lot from their faith.

Maybe if you were to try being a real Christian you could be accepting of others as well. You might even learn what Jesus said.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

1) It sounds like circular reasoning to me: mathmatical laws exist because the universe is logical, the universe is logical because it is mathmatically ordered. The premise is in need of proof as much as the conclusion is.

That's not scientifically or philosophically satisfying to me. Just my two cents.

Why does the universe have to be ordered rather than disordered? Why do unitless physical constants exist, and why do their values fall into a finely tuned range allowing order, matter,, and life possible? Make small changes to a constant or two, and matter doesn't exist, only energy. Why does such a finely tuned mathmatical scaffolding exist, and where does it come from?

Those are metaphysical questions, but I'm not saying they prove or disapprove anything about gods.


2) As for comets and asteroids, they aren't random because they follow precise trajectories and velocities dictated by the laws of celestial mechanics. Laplace's demon should have been able to predict the asteroid strike at the end of the Cretaceous because the asteroid's trajectory and the trajectory of the Earth are strictly deterministic.


3) I like the idea of your puzzle because it reminds me that we can only see and observe a very tiny part of the universe, and we can only see the universe as it existed in the remote past. Most of the universe we can't see, and we cannot observe what it looks like today.

1. The Universe is logical. We study it to determine the laws that govern it. I fail to see how understanding Pi is circular reasoning. <--- see what I did there? LOL

2. Exactly my point. The entire Universe is governed by such celestial mechanics put into motion by the Big Bang. The only way those mechanics are altered is by a living creature changing them. The Grand Canyon was carved by such mechanics. The only thing that changes it would be living things such as tree roots, animal burrows or humans diverting the river.

3. Agreed. Add "at this time". Comet's used to be thought of as harbingers of evil. Lightning was the anger of the gods. The fact Dark Matter and Dark Energy are mysteries at this time, doesn't stop us from understanding them as well as we do nuclear physics.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Genesis was written by men. Most likely men of a priestly class of ancient Bronze age semitic people who became the Hebrew tribes.

IMO, most of those stories were passed around the tribal campfires for thousands of years. Augmented by natural disasters like floods and volcanic eruptions.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's my point exactly.

You understand that's a belief on my part regardless if I wuss out and claim it's "disbelief"? LOL

Most myths have a basis in fact, be it unicorns, the Great Flood or King Arthur. Just saying "Bullshit, I disbelieve" is a matter of opinion and adds nothing to the understanding of the Universe by mankind.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22372187/

The unicorn myth originated shortly after unidentified horn-like objects, from six to ten feet long, began to appear in ancient European marketplaces. Physicians quickly ascribed outlandish healing properties to these horns, pulverizing them for the treatment of various diseases. In 1638, a Danish zoologist challenged these claims and provided evidence that the so-called "unicorn horn" was actually the tusk (tooth) of the narwhal from the Arctic seas.