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WinterBorn
Guest
The used gun market is looking good too. Plenty of people bough guns they couldn't afford, thinking a ban was coming. Now they want to sell them, and they are cheap.
Gun prices going down
- Thread starter /MSG/
- Start date
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
Not what I've seen, at least not at a large level.
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WinterBorn
Guest
I got a good price on a nice O/U 12ga, and I have seen some tempting revolvers and hunting rifles.
The semi-auto rifles and pistols are not on the used market in big numbers yet.
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
Those are the ones that were bought up the most during the spree. More then likely won't be seeing too many of those any time soon.
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WinterBorn
Guest
Those are the first ones to be hit in bans or restrictions as well. But I have what I want in that category.
But the bargains I am seeing work well even as just investments.
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
Guns are always a good investment, they never go down in value, provided you care for them accordingly. And the fear of a ban is what prompted so many to buy in the first place, especially with first time owners/buyers.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Mottley, scum like you is unworthy of a response.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
We should have nationalized them and executed the counterrevolutionary owners for treason.
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WinterBorn
Guest
You could try that.
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
Translation: Blah blah blah blah socialism blah blah blah.
Of course the same translation key could be used for ALL Watermarks posts since I've returned.
christiefan915
Catalyst
What, specifically, can you show that Obama wants sweeping gun control laws? I've been looking this up and found some answers on Factcheck.org, such as:
December 8, 2008
Q:
Did Obama promise last year to ban all semi-automatic guns during his first year as president?
Obama on his gun control plans once president:
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office. Within 90 days, we will go back after kitchen table dealers, and work to end the gun show and internet sales loopholes. In the first year, I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."
--Barack Obama, VPC Fund Raiser, 2007
Is there any way that your office can verify or deny this quote? If true, it undermines what Obama said in his presidential campaign. If false, it just confirms how far the ultra right-wing conservatives will go to instill fear about something they don't understand.
I know that you are extremely busy with other political matters of greater import. But thanks for any comment that you have time to provide.
A:
A widely circulated e-mail quoting Obama is baseless and almost certainly fabricated. He does support reinstatement of the expired "assault weapons ban" but isn't calling for a wider ban on all semi-automatic weapons. He said repeatedly during the campaign, "I am not going to take your guns away."
The quote contained in this e-mail supposedly came during a "VPC Fund Raiser" in 2007. "VPC" could stand for the Violence Policy Center, a Washington-based group that bills itself as the "most aggressive group in the gun control movement." But Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center, said in an e-mail to us that Obama made no such speech to his group:
Sugarmann: It is categorically false that Barack Obama attended, or made these remarks, at a VPC fundraiser in 2007. To our knowledge he has never attended any VPC fundraiser. In 2007 the VPC held no fundraising events.
Sugarmann added that he had no knowledge of Obama ever making such a comment.
Could "VPC" be an acronym for another group or organization? We checked with the Violence Prevention Coalition of Greater Los Angeles, which seeks to reduce violence in Los Angeles communities, and it also denied any knowledge of the alleged Obama remark:
Violence Prevention Coalition of Greater Los Angeles: [W]e can verify that President Elect Obama has never spoken at any of the Violence Prevention Coalition of Greater Los Angeles’ events. We can also verify that this quote did not originate from any one affiliated with the Violence Prevention Coalition of Greater Los Angeles.
In July 2007, Obama delivered a speech on inner-city gun violence at another potential "VPC," the Vernon Park Church of God in Chicago. But the quote our reader is inquiring about wasn't included in the prepared remarks delivered to the congregation by the former senator. If Obama veered from the script, the alleged quote wasn't in the reports about the event from the Associated Press or the Chicago Tribune. Anyway, the event at which he spoke was not a fundraiser at the church, but was a regular Sunday church service.
We also conducted searches of the Internet and of proprietary news databases, and found no news reports, video or audio of Obama making any such remarks. References to this dubious "quote" on gun-rights blogs, online forums and in the comment sections of Web sites all fail to provide any link to an original source, or to cite any authority.
Obama: "I'm not going to take away your guns"
The spurious "quote" is contradicted by what Obama has said publicly on the subject. He is not proposing "bans on all semi-automatic guns." Such a ban would cover a wide range of rifles, shotguns and handguns, including many common hunting rifles. We find no instance of Obama calling for such a ban at any time during his presidential campaign, much less promising to bring one about during his first year as president.
A decade ago, while running for a seat in the Illinois Legislature in 1998, Obama responded to an Illinois State Legislative Election National Political Awareness Test and indicated that he would support action to "ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons." But he has not called for such a ban in recent years.
To the contrary, he has said repeatedly that he has no intention of calling for a broad ban on guns.
For example, he said at a campaign rally in Lebanon, Va., on Sept. 9 that "I am not going to take your guns away." Video of the event is posted on YouTube.
Obama, Sept. 9: I don't want any misunderstanding when you all go home, and you're talking to your buddies, and they say, "Aw, he wants to take my gun away." You've heard it here; I'm on television, so everybody knows it. I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in people's lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away. ... There are some common-sense gun safety laws that I believe in. But I am not going to take your guns away. So if you want to find an excuse not to vote for me, don't use that one. ... It just ain't true.
He made similar remarks days earlier at a campaign event in Pennsylvania, where he promised sportsmen that "I'm not going to take away your guns." As The Wall Street Journal reported:
Wall Street Journal, Sept. 5: “If you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it,’’ Obama said. But the Illinois senator could still see skeptics in the crowd, particularly on the faces of several men at the back of the room.
So he tried again. “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ he said. “This can’t be the reason not to vote for me. Can everyone hear me in the back? I see a couple of sportsmen back there. I’m not going to take away your guns.’’
Assault Weapons Ban: Obama does support permanent reinstatement of the so-called "assault weapons ban." That ban, which expired in 2004, covered certain military-style, semi-automatic firearms. (Fully automatic assault rifles remain illegal to own in most cases under legislation dating back to the 1930s.) This e-mail exaggerates, however, when it quotes Obama as saying he would make reinstatement "my first priority." We could find no evidence of Obama promising any sort of gun-policy time table.
During his nearly two-year presidential campaign, Obama declared that he believes the Second Amendment protects the rights of individuals to bear arms, but he said that some "common-sense" laws are necessary for safety. The president-elect's transition Web site contains a general outline of how he plans to address gun violence in cities, including closing the so-called "gun show loophole" that allows unlicensed individuals to sell guns at gun shows without having to perform a background check on potential buyers. There is no mention, however, of Obama pushing to do that "within 90 days":
Obama-Biden, "Urban Policy": As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
The Obama-Biden agenda doesn't mention implementing a "national no carry law," imposing "1 gun a month purchase limits," or placing "bans on all semi-automatic guns," as mentioned in the e-mail quote. Nor does the 2008 Democratic National Platform. While Obama has favored these regulations in the past, he hasn't said that he plans to pursue them during his presidency.
In 2004, the Chicago Tribune reported that Obama "backed federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying [concealed] weapons, except for law enforcement," and quoted the then state senator as saying, "National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents." Then last spring, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported that Obama said, "I am not in favor of concealed weapons. ... I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations." In 2004, Obama did vote for a measure that would have allowed retired police officers and retired military to be able to carry concealed weapons.
In 2000, Obama was a cosponsor of SB 1614 in the Illinois state Senate. The bill sought to prohibit the transfer of more than one handgun in a 30-day period, with exemptions for federally licensed firearms dealers, military personnel, law enforcement officers and certain hunters. And in 2003, Obama voted in favor of HB 2579, a measure that would have made it illegal for someone to sell or give a person more than one handgun in a 30-day period. Neither bill became law.
-D'Angelo Gore
Correction, Feb. 6: We originally referred to "unlicensed dealers" at gun shows. We meant to refer to "unlicensed individuals." Federal law defines "dealers" as "any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail" and requires them to hold a federal license.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_obama_promise_last_year_to_ban.html
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
Nowhere did I claim that he intended to, only that fear of such was motivation for a huge buying spree. This is undeniable.
Further, there have been proposed tax raises on ammo, ban's on concealed carry, the regular 'assault weapons' ban that is proposed every year since it came to an end. They have gone no where, and thus the buying spree is coming down.
Further, there have been proposed tax raises on ammo, ban's on concealed carry, the regular 'assault weapons' ban that is proposed every year since it came to an end. They have gone no where, and thus the buying spree is coming down.
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christiefan915
Catalyst
I should have been more specific about "you" (pl.). I was going by "caused by nearly everyone buying as much as they can 'before the ban' in anticipation of new sweeping gun control laws." Meaning those who were fearful that there would be new laws, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I wonder why so many people latched onto this rumor, and my conclusion, right or wrong, is that this was a knee-jerk reaction, sorta like saying the country is now going commie.
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
Well the last democrat president we had was Clinton, who was certainly no friend to the gun industry. Neither is the state of Illinois, so a senator from there is more than likely no friend to the firearms groups. Further what he says on a campaign stop is irrelevant to me and most gun owners, it's his voting record that counts.
Courtesy of ontheissues.org
* Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008)
* Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
* FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
* April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)
* Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
* Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
* 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
* Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
* Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
* Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
* Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
Courtesy of ontheissues.org
* Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008)
* Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
* FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
* April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)
* Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
* Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
* 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
* Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
* Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
* Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
* Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
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SmarterthanYou
rebel
ALL federal gun control laws are unconstitutional. 'shall not be infringed' does not mean reasonable regulation.
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
Two ways are used to justify them. One is the removal of rights by due process, as prescribed by the 4th Amendment. This is right and proper as you lose many rights once convicted of a felony. The other is the 'interstate commerce clause' loosely and erroneously used by congress to regulate, well, everything they want. Of course several states have passed "freedom in firearms" act's regulating their own use of intrastate firearms outside of federal law, so it will be interesting to see where those go.
christiefan915
Catalyst
McCain wasn't totally pro-gun, using examples from your site.
# Calls for GOP “tolerance” of closing gun show loopholes. (May 2002)
# Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999)
# Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999)
# Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999)
# Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999)
# Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Also, what's your position on police chiefs and other law enforcement officials supporting some regulations?
Lowaicue
英語在香港
It is not surprising that gun owners you know didnt vote for McCain. Most American gun owners I have met would be hard pressed to know how to make a cross on a ballot paper.
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WinterBorn
Guest
You really should try and meet a better class of american gun owner.
I could introduce you to doctors, engineers, lawyers, teachers, college professors, and writers who frequent the same shooting range I do and some who hunt in the same area I do.
Generalizations such as your are mostly nonsense.