Gun prices going down

Lowaicue said:
It is not surprising that gun owners you know didnt vote for McCain. Most American gun owners I have met would be hard pressed to know how to make a cross on a ballot paper.
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Then you've met a very small pool of both Americans and American gun owners, but thanks for throwing in your opinion.
 
WinterBorn said:
You really should try and meet a better class of american gun owner.

I could introduce you to doctors, engineers, lawyers, teachers, college professors, and writers who frequent the same shooting range I do and some who hunt in the same area I do.

Generalizations such as your are mostly nonsense.
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In real life I can honestly say that if I met ANYONE, American or not, who thought it normal human behaviour to own or want to own a device designed to kill his fellow man, I would shun them in a taxi second.
I know there are people in America, who think it is normal. I just hope they stay in America and do not bring their immaturity and desire for violence any where near me.
There can be, by the very definition of the term, no 'good American' who likes to own a gun be it to kill animals or people.
 
Lowaicue said:
In real life I can honestly say that if I met ANYONE, American or not, who thought it normal human behaviour to own or want to own a device designed to kill his fellow man, I would shun them in a taxi second.
I know there are people in America, who think it is normal. I just hope they stay in America and do not bring their immaturity and desire for violence any where near me.
There can be, by the very definition of the term, no 'good American' who likes to own a gun be it to kill animals or people.
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Good for you, being so close minded and all. Especially since there are people in EVERY nation that like to own/would like to own firearms.
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
Good for you, being so close minded and all. Especially since there are people in EVERY nation that like to own/would like to own firearms.
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There are also mental institutions in most countries. You clearly do not have them in America.
 
Lowaicue said:
In real life I can honestly say that if I met ANYONE, American or not, who thought it normal human behaviour to own or want to own a device designed to kill his fellow man, I would shun them in a taxi second.
I know there are people in America, who think it is normal. I just hope they stay in America and do not bring their immaturity and desire for violence any where near me.
There can be, by the very definition of the term, no 'good American' who likes to own a gun be it to kill animals or people.
Click to expand...

A gun is a tool. It is not evil. The intent is in the person who uses the tool.

I own guns for several reasons. A couple are designed to send a very tiny projectile down a target range in a very accurate manner. They are bulky and badly designed for killing anyone.

I own several that are designed for hunting. I take my responsibilities as a hunter very seriously. I go to great lengths to make sure it is a humane kill, and I eat what I kill (with the exception of vermin hunted for pest control). My efforts and those of my fellow hunters, are a huge part of the conservation efforts by various states. And the extra taxes we pay provide the lion's share of the funding for such conservation efforts.

I also enjoy the historical aspect of gun collecting. The modern era of warfare is a testament to the design and implementation of modern guns.
 
WinterBorn said:
A gun is a tool. It is not evil. The intent is in the person who uses the tool.

I own guns for several reasons. A couple are designed to send a very tiny projectile down a target range in a very accurate manner. They are bulky and badly designed for killing anyone.

I own several that are designed for hunting. I take my responsibilities as a hunter very seriously. I go to great lengths to make sure it is a humane kill, and I eat what I kill (with the exception of vermin hunted for pest control). My efforts and those of my fellow hunters, are a huge part of the conservation efforts by various states. And the extra taxes we pay provide the lion's share of the funding for such conservation efforts.

I also enjoy the historical aspect of gun collecting. The modern era of warfare is a testament to the design and implementation of modern guns.
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Well since I posted that I have asked several people what they would think of a man who wanted to own a gun.
One (German) said, 'I think he must be an American.' some just laughed and said things like 'f*****g crazy' and 'stupid', oh and an American said, 'Every country has its idiots but we have more than our fair share.'
I know that for years Americans have been proud of a constitution that allows the ownership of guns. But I have to say, in all honesty (I cannot stress this enough), that as far as the rest of us are concerned Americans just don't get it. We really and truly think that owning a device whose ONLY purpose is to take life is childish in the extreme, irresponsible and shows a unique violence that is hard wired into the American psyche.
As for the hunting and killing of wild animals, most of the civilised world has grown out of such behaviour. It is part of the maturing process that seems to have bypassed America completely.
I am quite surprised that people who, in all other aspects, seem quite sane often reveal this extremely dark side of their character. I am surprised and very disappointed.
And you BRAG about it!!!! That is wierd.
 
Lowaicue said:
As for the hunting and killing of wild animals, most of the civilised world has grown out of such behaviour. It is part of the maturing process that seems to have bypassed America completely.
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I wanted to address this first and with the most accurate attention.

The reason most nations you consider civilized have stopped hunting is that they have already destroyed so much of the natural habitat, that they do not have sustainable animal populations in the wild. These populations require asistance from man to survive. And those populations that do not require assistance from man, are almost invariably hunted. Hunting exists in Germany, the UK, and most other European nations.

In the US, we have maintained large tracts of wilderness. The animals there do what animals do. They eat and they breed. In Alabama alone the whitetail deer population is estimated at 1.5 million animals. Biologists say that one-third of those animals should be removed (culled, murdered, hunted - pick a word) in order to maintain a stable herd size.

Also, the extra taxes and fees paid by hunters and fishermen pay the lion's share of conservation efforts in the US. So hunters pay for the conservation and act as the only predator for many species, thereby controlling populations of many animals.

So, to review, most of the world has NOT grown out of such behavior. They just reserve it for the rich.

And secondly, the hunting here serves to actually protect the animals and their habitats.



Low, since you choose to be so condescending towards hunters, will you please bless us with your wisdom on how to control populations of wild animals without hunting?
 
Lowaicue said:
Well since I posted that I have asked several people what they would think of a man who wanted to own a gun.
One (German) said, 'I think he must be an American.' some just laughed and said things like 'f*****g crazy' and 'stupid', oh and an American said, 'Every country has its idiots but we have more than our fair share.'
I know that for years Americans have been proud of a constitution that allows the ownership of guns. But I have to say, in all honesty (I cannot stress this enough), that as far as the rest of us are concerned Americans just don't get it. We really and truly think that owning a device whose ONLY purpose is to take life is childish in the extreme, irresponsible and shows a unique violence that is hard wired into the American psyche.
As for the hunting and killing of wild animals, most of the civilised world has grown out of such behaviour. It is part of the maturing process that seems to have bypassed America completely.
I am quite surprised that people who, in all other aspects, seem quite sane often reveal this extremely dark side of their character. I am surprised and very disappointed.
And you BRAG about it!!!! That is wierd.
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So... basically everything you've said in this entire thread (and most of your other posts in general it would seem, especially where I'm involved) boil down to "I don't like guns. I don't like Americans. I especially don't like Americans with guns" right? What about all the other RKBA groups around the world? Like from your home country, England? Russia? Germany? Italy? Australia? France? Belgium? Finland? Sweden? Norway? Israel? Ireland? Canada? Spain? Switzerland? India? Iraq? Afghanistan? Name a country Low, and I'll be willing to bet I can name at least one group who would disagree with your opinion on the matter.
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
So... basically everything you've said in this entire thread (and most of your other posts in general it would seem, especially where I'm involved) boil down to "I don't like guns. I don't like Americans. I especially don't like Americans with guns" right? What about all the other RKBA groups around the world? Like from your home country, England? Russia? Germany? Italy? Australia? France? Belgium? Finland? Sweden? Norway? Israel? Ireland? Canada? Spain? Switzerland? India? Iraq? Afghanistan? Name a country Low, and I'll be willing to bet I can name at least one group who would disagree with your opinion on the matter.
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If you would like to tell me the meaning of RKBA I might take a stab at a response.
I certainly would hope there are many people and groups of people who disagree with me. Agreement stagnates as we can see when we look at the American RW.
But once again you are mistaken.
I do not dislike Americans. I dislike Yanks. That is the uneducated Americans who think their shit dont stink and that they ahve a right to spread their form of human pollution throughout the civilised world.
Mostly that means those who pay/paid lip service to PNAC, NRA, KKK, Bush etc etc. These are the Americans who, as I said before, JUST DON'T GET IT.
 
WinterBorn said:
I wanted to address this first and with the most accurate attention.

The reason most nations you consider civilized have stopped hunting is that they have already destroyed so much of the natural habitat, that they do not have sustainable animal populations in the wild. These populations require asistance from man to survive. And those populations that do not require assistance from man, are almost invariably hunted. Hunting exists in Germany, the UK, and most other European nations.

In the US, we have maintained large tracts of wilderness. The animals there do what animals do. They eat and they breed. In Alabama alone the whitetail deer population is estimated at 1.5 million animals. Biologists say that one-third of those animals should be removed (culled, murdered, hunted - pick a word) in order to maintain a stable herd size.

Also, the extra taxes and fees paid by hunters and fishermen pay the lion's share of conservation efforts in the US. So hunters pay for the conservation and act as the only predator for many species, thereby controlling populations of many animals.

So, to review, most of the world has NOT grown out of such behavior. They just reserve it for the rich.

And secondly, the hunting here serves to actually protect the animals and their habitats.



Low, since you choose to be so condescending towards hunters, will you please bless us with your wisdom on how to control populations of wild animals without hunting?
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The wild animals were there long before you. Leave them alone. It is their place. Why do you people want to control EVERYTHING?
And I am sorry to say this, but the civilised world HAS matured away from hunting and destroying the beauty of the wild. Rich has nothing to do with it.
Stop believing your own propaganda for goodness sake.
 
Lowaicue said:
The wild animals were there long before you. Leave them alone. It is their place. Why do you people want to control EVERYTHING?
And I am sorry to say this, but the civilised world HAS matured away from hunting and destroying the beauty of the wild. Rich has nothing to do with it.
Stop believing your own propaganda for goodness sake.
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Nice try, but no dice.

There IS hunting in the nations you call civilized. Pretend all you want, but it exists.

And yes, the wild animals were here long before we were. But that included predators, such as bear, wolf, mtn lions and the like. They no longer exist in most of the US, and certainly not in numbers great enough to control the animal populations.

So you avoided the question nicely. But let me ask again, what would you suggest we do to control the populations of whitetail deer in the US? Should we stop hunting and let them overpopulate, defoliate large tracts of land, suffer thru starvation and illness, and wait a few decades until they die back down to a smaller population? Meanwhile, other species would die in large numbers as well, due to the defoliation by the deer.


"Why do you people want to control EVERYTHING?" Nice try and insinuating that controlling the animal population is by our choice and not by necessity. But it is absolutely incorrect.
 
Lowaicue said:
If you would like to tell me the meaning of RKBA I might take a stab at a response.
I certainly would hope there are many people and groups of people who disagree with me. Agreement stagnates as we can see when we look at the American RW.
But once again you are mistaken.
I do not dislike Americans. I dislike Yanks. That is the uneducated Americans who think their shit dont stink and that they ahve a right to spread their form of human pollution throughout the civilised world.
Mostly that means those who pay/paid lip service to PNAC, NRA, KKK, Bush etc etc. These are the Americans who, as I said before, JUST DON'T GET IT.
Click to expand...

RKBA stands for Right to Keep and Bear Arms, commonly reffered to here as our 2nd Amendment.
 
WinterBorn said:
Nice try, but no dice.

There IS hunting in the nations you call civilized. Pretend all you want, but it exists.

And yes, the wild animals were here long before we were. But that included predators, such as bear, wolf, mtn lions and the like. They no longer exist in most of the US, and certainly not in numbers great enough to control the animal populations.

So you avoided the question nicely. But let me ask again, what would you suggest we do to control the populations of whitetail deer in the US? Should we stop hunting and let them overpopulate, defoliate large tracts of land, suffer thru starvation and illness, and wait a few decades until they die back down to a smaller population? Meanwhile, other species would die in large numbers as well, due to the defoliation by the deer.


"Why do you people want to control EVERYTHING?" Nice try and insinuating that controlling the animal population is by our choice and not by necessity. But it is absolutely incorrect.
Click to expand...

Of course there is still hunting in some places. Does that mean it is condoned by most? Does that make it right? There is murder and mayhem throughout the world: it will never be right? There is the stripping of valuable rain forest. It will never be right.
I have to say I am getting just a tad bored by the continual bleating of, 'But you/they do it too.'
I have no idea what a white tailed deer is (apart from the obvious, of course). But what would happen if there were no humans living on the bit of land to which you have laid claim? Well, whatever your answer, that is what should happen now. A small point: I am not going to say that there is NEVER a case for the legal and controlled killing of some animals.
We are fast sliding away from the main point which is that in America, there is a particular mindset in more than just a few, that thinks that somehow it is fun to kill. I find that pretty close to revolting. You don't.
 
Lowaicue said:
Of course there is still hunting in some places. Does that mean it is condoned by most? Does that make it right? There is murder and mayhem throughout the world: it will never be right? There is the stripping of valuable rain forest. It will never be right.
I have to say I am getting just a tad bored by the continual bleating of, 'But you/they do it too.'
I have no idea what a white tailed deer is (apart from the obvious, of course). But what would happen if there were no humans living on the bit of land to which you have laid claim? Well, whatever your answer, that is what should happen now. A small point: I am not going to say that there is NEVER a case for the legal and controlled killing of some animals.
We are fast sliding away from the main point which is that in America, there is a particular mindset in more than just a few, that thinks that somehow it is fun to kill. I find that pretty close to revolting. You don't.
Click to expand...

If there were no humans living on an expanse of land, the deer would do what they do best, eat and make babies. But without some form of predation, they would overpopulate rather quickly. Once that happens, they exceed the ability of the land to support them. The food that is available is eaten faster than it can grow back. They eat foliage that they would normally avoid, in an attempt to stave off their hunger. So you would have sick and starving deer in a relatively short span of years.

In remote wilderness areas they can reintroduce some predators, but our wild lands often border highly populated areas. Having wolves roam the suburbs is not an option.

As for the "fun to kill" part, I think you do not understand the concept of hunting. I am sure there are some bloodthirsty hunters out there. But most fall into two categories:
1) Meat hunters - We look at the deer as a food source. A quality, lean source of protein without the antibiotics and steroids of the commercially raised beef & pork. Unlike people who buy meat at the grocery stoore, we are not paying someone else to kill for us.
2) Sport Hunters - We relish the challenge of hunting a wild animal in their habitat. Contrary to what you may have read, it is not an easy task. I have gone numerous times and come back empty handed. Any hunter who doesn't is only going on "canned hunts" which is disgusting, or is very lucky and not hunting often.

Both hunters have a profound respect for our prey. Both hunters put a lot of effort into making a quick, humane kill. And every hunter I know dispises the poachers and out-of-seaon hunters that plague our wilderness.
 
Lowaicue said:
Of course there is still hunting in some places. Does that mean it is condoned by most? Does that make it right? There is murder and mayhem throughout the world: it will never be right? There is the stripping of valuable rain forest. It will never be right.
I have to say I am getting just a tad bored by the continual bleating of, 'But you/they do it too.'
I have no idea what a white tailed deer is (apart from the obvious, of course). But what would happen if there were no humans living on the bit of land to which you have laid claim? Well, whatever your answer, that is what should happen now. A small point: I am not going to say that there is NEVER a case for the legal and controlled killing of some animals.
We are fast sliding away from the main point which is that in America, there is a particular mindset in more than just a few, that thinks that somehow it is fun to kill. I find that pretty close to revolting. You don't.
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You absolutely misunderstand the situation. 100%

And it seems that a portion of your misunderstanding, at least a portion, is on purpose.

If we did not allow hunting here, the populations of deer, etc. would overwhelm the environment as there is simply no longer enough natural predation to control the populations. Your "outrage" notwithstanding, the animals would have a far worse fate if we followed your misguided sensibilities. Go ahead, buy your packaged and processed meat and stand on your pedestal looking down on others, pretending you have "morals" better than those who would ensure that the animals didn't die wholesale in the most horrific manner due to our own inaction.

IMO, you are one sick mofo, wishing the worst of fates on the animal population as well as the ecosystem of which they are a part.
 
WinterBorn said:
If there were no humans living on an expanse of land, the deer would do what they do best, eat and make babies. But without some form of predation, they would overpopulate rather quickly. Once that happens, they exceed the ability of the land to support them. The food that is available is eaten faster than it can grow back. They eat foliage that they would normally avoid, in an attempt to stave off their hunger. So you would have sick and starving deer in a relatively short span of years.

In remote wilderness areas they can reintroduce some predators, but our wild lands often border highly populated areas. Having wolves roam the suburbs is not an option.

As for the "fun to kill" part, I think you do not understand the concept of hunting. I am sure there are some bloodthirsty hunters out there. But most fall into two categories:
1) Meat hunters - We look at the deer as a food source. A quality, lean source of protein without the antibiotics and steroids of the commercially raised beef & pork. Unlike people who buy meat at the grocery stoore, we are not paying someone else to kill for us.
2) Sport Hunters - We relish the challenge of hunting a wild animal in their habitat. Contrary to what you may have read, it is not an easy task. I have gone numerous times and come back empty handed. Any hunter who doesn't is only going on "canned hunts" which is disgusting, or is very lucky and not hunting often.

Both hunters have a profound respect for our prey. Both hunters put a lot of effort into making a quick, humane kill. And every hunter I know dispises the poachers and out-of-seaon hunters that plague our wilderness.
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What you have been stating, is the abosulte truth about animal populations, in the real world.
Obviously in NoIQ's world it goes something like this:
Buck: Hey Doe, you're looking really cute
Doe: Why thank you Stag
Stag: How about you and me hooking up, just for the mating season?
Doe: Sorry Buck; but the reports say we're reaching a population crisis, so I'm putting off any births until the report reads better.
Stag: Fuck!!
Doe: I already told you no, so stop pushing me on this.
 
Lowaicue said:
Then as such I would very much doubt if any other country has it. Or do you think we have all succumbed to the great American jackboot?
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You sir, are greatly mistaken.

England: NRA of UK www.nra.org.uk
Canada:The Canadian Unregistered Firearms Owners Association www.cufoa.ca
France: No group could be readily found, however there is a large gun owning community to be found at http://feulibre.forumactif.com/
Switzerland: Pro Tell, a group of Swiss gun owners named after national hero William Tell. No website could be readily found however.

I could go on and and name other groups from other countries, but I think you get the picture. And if not maybe some of your former countrymen can;
 
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