HAVE WE ENTERED A NEW GILDED AGE?

Great industrial and scientific progress, thanks to the efforts of the dreaded Robber Barons. One of the nations most innovative periods, as well. We built up our cities, and constructed things like the Brooklyn Bridge.

I would refer you to a book length pictorial essay called How the Other Half Lives: Studies Among the Tenements of New York (1890). What most people who celebrate this period fail to understand is that there was a severe price in human suffering for all that wealth just as there is today. And all the talk in the world about progress is meaningless if well over half the population does not enjoy the fruits of that grand design. Unfortunately, then life now the wealth accumulated at the top. I am currently finishing three books on this period. All are from a leftist perspective and all are enlightening and are concerned with getting to the history from a revisionist perspective.

The first is a head turner because it argues that it wasn't the actions of the people or the media that created the many government trgulations that we have all learned came out of the progressive era but that in fact most of what we think we know is myth and it was business itself annoyed by the changed that were happening at the state level and the desire to keep the minor players in many areas on the sidelines that instigated and helped institute the changes that myth has erroneously attributed to the people. It is by Gabriel Kolko and is titled The Triumph of Conservatism: A Reinterpretation of American History, 1900=1916 (1963).

The second one is the book from which the except I typed is from, and is a ground up social history that talks about where the people lived, how they lived, and how they worked and played and were abused during this period, and the third is only peripherally concerned with this period as an early example of mostly failed poor people's movements from a theoretical perspective, and that is Piven's book which I will be quoting from some more. But I quoted from in another thread. Her take is that for the most part such movements get subsumed and victimized from the inside and the outside. On the inside they fall victim to leadership in that the people who aspire to lead want to formulate long lasting movements to ensure longevity and are therefore at odds with the people they lead who want results now and on the outside from government officials and business interests who are determined to get peace at the lowest possible cost. And that generally involved some kind of government intervention. So for Piven what these movements generally obtain as solutions are things that the powers that be had already begun instituting, like the meat inspection regime that had already begun before Upton Sinclair wrote a word about the stockyards or the filthy conditions surrounding the production of sausage. And why was this inspection regime instituted? It was certainly not because of anything Sinclair wrote.

Government certified inspections were instituted because the Europeans were a huge market for American meat producers and as they do today the Europeans abhorred the lack of inspection by American producers and for a period boycotted American meat products. The meat industry, wanting to gain some credence with the European market and get the boycott lifted, itself petitioned the government for a meat inspection regime but argued over who was to pay for it, whether business or the taxpayer. At this time there was no income tax so the government was a little less likely to foot the bill on this. This was all occurring in the decade before The Jungle (1906) was being researched and written. Indeed, Sinclair himself wasn't writing about the meat industry as much as the conditions and trials and tribulations of a hard working immigrant population and how they were getting ripped off at every turn, but the media concentrated on the scenes from the slaughter houses instead of how the immigrants were being taken to the cleaners at every turn.

This is the pattern that both Kolko and Piven find over and over again. The people only ever get what government and business are either willing or ready to give and not much more than that. In other words, the poor in spite of what people like Howard Zinn and Nell Painter say or try to show are mostly at a distinct loss when it comes to petitioning the government.

We only win those cases where our interests coincide with the interests of business because in the end it is the interests of business that prevail. So the next time someone starts going off about BIG government, just remember whatever is going on in government is either a result of business acquiesces or is being actively and directly put forward by some business interest for their own selfish monetary gain. When I occasionally ask the anti-government types here how many lobbyists they have, I am not being facetious; I am trying to make a serious point. If they have none, and they always have none, they generally try to change the subject. Why? Because they know that the idea of individual people with lobbyists is mostly ludicrous. And since that is what really runs Congress, they know they can't win that argument.
 
Unfortunately, then life now the wealth accumulated at the top. The first is a head turner because it argues that it wasn't the actions of the people or the media that created the many government trgulations that we have all learned came out of the progressive era but that in fact most of what we think we know is myth and it was business itself annoyed by the changed that were happening at the state level and the desire to keep the minor players in many areas on the sidelines that instigated and helped institute the changes that myth has erroneously attributed to the people. So the next time someone starts going off about BIG government, just remember whatever is going on in government is either a result of business acquiesces or is being actively and directly put forward by some business interest for their own selfish monetary gain.


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I know, but thanks for being frank about your failings.

When people have no logical or intellectual rebuttal to what is said they resort to such things as typos and other silliness to divert from the seriousness of what is actually being proposed. Big Mouth excels at this type of ignorance which is why I have trouble seeing him as anything more than an obnoxious fool. But I guess some people think that there is something intellectually compelling about his antics. I am not one of those. I never even found him even mildly amusing but he was another one of the people who thought I was a woman and should be viciously violated and anally raped and said so for several days when I stated posting here in October. So I never had any illusions about how fucked up he was. I experienced it first hand. What you see here is about all he has!
 
Either way, I'm all for Gilded Age levels of GDP. The American success story that you have come to know is all thanks to the Gilded Age.

Yuk it up, I spelled it right in the title. It was a typo! I hope that in addition to this sort of juvenilia you have something worthwhile to contribute, but I doubt that you do since this is your second post on my misspelling which came as a result of hurrying not stupidity. As I pointed out I spelled correctly in the title so you cannot argue that I don't know how to spell it. Perhaps you should address the substance instead of the misspellings or the typos.
 
I guess I am too stupid to realize that Dantes used parenthesis "Guilded", because he knew the usage was incorrect, in an obvious(to anyone but me) cut down on both Cawakoff and 3-dweeb.

My attempt to make Dantes look stupid was both immature and unwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilded_Age

Yes indeed it was, I made a typo of a word I spelled correctly elsewhere. I'm currently unsure whether or not you know the difference between quotation marks and parenthesis, but guess what: I don't give a damn because you are nothing but stupid as characterized by you ignorant pictures and your ignorant laughing visuals. How anyone can see you as anything other than a fool is certainly beyond me. I never have! Other than as a poor ignorant fuck with a severe anal rape fetish you have impressed me not at all.
 
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Yuk it up, I spelled it right in the title. It was a typo! I hope that in addition to this sort of juvenilia you have something worthwhile to contribute, but I doubt that you do since this is your second post on my misspelling which came as a result of hurrying not stupidity. As I pointed out I spelled correctly in the title so you cannot argue that I don't know how to spell it. Perhaps you should address the substance instead of the misspellings or the typos.

Learn to read. I'm not the one who called you out for your spelling. I hadn't even noticed it until Legion Fag started going off about it.
 
With regard to poverty, the Gilded Age coincided with a mass immigration into the US that set statistical records. No matter what the economic or political philosophy of the day, this was always going to lead to tenement culture, massive levels of poverty, conflict and struggle, and a host of problems. It just happened to occur during a time of industrial revolution and market liberalization.
 
Learn to read. I'm not the one who called you out for your spelling. I hadn't even noticed it until Legion Fag started going off about it.

Since he is on forced IA with me and I can only read him occasionally as a result of some kind of board glitch, I have for the most part no idea what he said or when he said it, so I only have what you said. and that was at least two posts going on about it. Sorry if you find my rebuttal of those offensive. I'll give you credit for at least having something to say about the Gilded Age no matter how wrong I think that something is. As far as Big Money is concerned, I haven't ever seen anything out of him that wasn't juvenile or worse just plain sickening.
 


So, now I have to cover for you, as well? Explain to us how there wasn't a gigantic human wave of immigration into the US that coincided with the Gilded Age, please.

Everyone feel free to start paying attention to details and engaging in your own thinking from here on out...
 
With regard to poverty, the Gilded Age coincided with a mass immigration into the US that set statistical records. No matter what the economic or political philosophy of the day, this was always going to lead to tenement culture, massive levels of poverty, conflict and struggle, and a host of problems. It just happened to occur during a time of industrial revolution and market liberalization.


How naive you are: "It just happened to occur during a time of industrial revolution and market liberalization." No it didn't just happen, it was sought out by business interests in American who sent armies of recruiters to Eastern Europe, Russia and elsewhere to generate the armies of workers needed to sustain the massive accumulations of wealth such armies of cheap labor where capable of producing. Not only did these armies of laborers help keep their own wages down but then as now they also helped keep down the wages of those who would go on strike and use other methods to increase their subsistence wages and horrible living conditions. As a result children as young as four were employed in order to help those who came here for a better life continue to exist in their tenement hellholes. And without better wages the people who came here could not pay decent rents and the slumlords and rancid loan sharks and real estate speculators who exploited them were allowed to pile one injustice on top of another. The idea that this is all just one big happenstance shows how little you know about the era or the way things work in this country. There is very little that has happened by accident here. And there are damn few if any coincidences.
 
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