Hello Everyone
- Thread starter Wake
- Start date
cawacko
Well-known member
I was just being nosey.
I post there. Too many sub forums and they get all pissy if you stray off topic with a tangential argument.
apple0154
MEOW
Just like your typical dysfunctional family. We have weirdos, sexists, etc. Others so narrow minded they could slide their head through a keyhole. But, all in all, a pleasant group.
Anyone heard from Yurtroll since he showed up?
lol in that case welcome to the board wake. pretty much everyone here has an alt.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Was that Bitchtalk for WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
christiefan915
Catalyst
When the people are men, it's advice. When the people are women, it's nagging.
Setting the Record Straight
Yes, I was banned. Unjustly so, and forced to leave. In spite of what some unscrupulous folks have said here and elsewhere, only a handful of people know what truly happened. Since my friends found it worth it to give aid, lines of communication have been created, providing an indirect means for illumination and, perhaps, some glimmer of justice in the eyes of some. What is said in DP is clear, likewise what is said here will be seen by those from there. Those from the past have already made their parting shots here, but with this unsuspecting audience's patience, it will be explained thoroughly. ...so, where does one begin to explain?
The gears were set in motion about a month ago, in that a Zetaboards forum had been created and placed in my signature. Its function was straightforward: law-abiding members would cooperate in reporting certain trolls who brought down the quality of debatepolitics.com. DP has had a recurring problem of trolls and ridiculous political hacks. For those who took part, our goal was to help clean it up. A member like "Head of Joaquin," a rabid partisan hack who called all conservatives all manner of vile, horrible things, was a hemorrhoid. Likewise, there were also obscene conservative hacks who spread their filth, too. We were content to wait for them to make personal attacks and then report them, in the hopes of their eventual removal. The endeavor was doomed from the start, in that by playing vigilante other rules were broken, such as advertising and conspirac to get rid of members (hacks who say things like all homosexuals are evil and all gun owners are cultists). A perma-ban hearing was held, where sincere apologies and understanding was given in turn for not being banned, but temporarily suspended for 2 weeks. It was a stupid move in which we played the part of vigilantes moving in the interest of civility.
After the hearing resolved, this was given just prior to the temp-suspension.
Indeed, my action was stupid and what the man said was right. I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm blameless. In the interest of not being banned from DP, all stipulations were met. The member "Curious" was granted permission to become Admin and view everything. Afterwards, it was deleted. "You will delete the forum altogether and never do something like this again." "Something" and "like" being key words.
So during those two weeks of suspension options were considered. As long as something like this never happened again, everything should be alright, right? Remembering plans of the past, it was decided, upon return, to try a different idea that predated 2009. This was over a year before joining DP in 2010. A Zetaboard forum whose function was to gather, store, and organize neutral, empirical, and sourced information. This concept was tried in the past a few times, but the problem was over-expansion, in gathering too much data and creating too many organized sections too quickly. The latest version would be streamlined, and concentrated.... new sections would be added slowly.
After the temporary suspension, I decided before even attempting such a thing, it'd be wise to talk with forum staff about this forum BEFORE sigging it. The past mistake gave reason to be careful and follow DP rules to the smallest detail. Indeed, it was around a week of DP staff talking amongst themselves in secret over what their response would be. If I didn't "give a ****" about staff, I wouldn't have come to them straightforwardly and honestly, but just posted it without running it by them first. Waiting patiently, an answer was received.
Perhaps I misunderstood him, but he made it clear that under no circumstances were I to make a forum that has anything to do with DP. As long as the forum in my signature had absolutely NO references to debatepolitics, like quotes and links, there would be nothing to fear. In short, it contained a Cooking section with numerous recipes, a forum with songs and lyrics, and a forum with pictures and emoticons. Despite that, I asked staff if they even wanted to view the forum themselves NOT to advertise it to them, but to ensure no rules were broken. They did not. Whatever their feelings were, the goal was to make sure no rules were broken. If no rules were broken, it was legal.
Even after the new forum in question was ensured to have no references to DP, it was not enough. Why? Can a recipe found in a cookbook relate to DP? If so, how? See, this forum housed absolutely no information relating to DP, and yet despite staff not ever having seen the forum, they said it did. Afterward, I remembering responding with something along the lines of "your previous PM said that as long as a forum was put in my signature and it contained absolutely no reference to debatepolitics.com at all, it would be alright. You have contradicted yourself by either saying I can have a neutral forum and be banned, or have no forum and stay; the third option was having a sigged forum in accordance with all DP rules."
Waking up the next morning, I find myself banned with a new email. Why? Is talking with staff about making sure something is OK with the rules before doing something a bannable offense?
Regardless of current status, punishment should only be given when rules are broken. Isn't that how society works? The forum was even made so that nothing political or otherwise in reference to DP was part of it. In fact, this new forum was never put on DP, whether by PM, signature, or post. They don't even know what it looks like, or what it is named. See, I have it with me right now, and this will be the first time anyone besides me has seen it. An account was banned because of this:
http://w11.zetaboards.com/Xtraction/index/
Clearly, a recipe for Pickled Asparagus Spears is a bannable offense that relates in absolutely every way to debatepolitics.com. I guess I'm guilty as charged, in that these asparagus spears are grown on the grounds of DP's fertile acres, so obviously it's a trademark violation. If you look closely, the very jars in author Marissa McClellan's books tit directly to DP because "DP" is so transparently etched in bottom of the jars. The Strawberry Preserves with Lemon Verbena? Definitely grown on DP grounds.
How do recipes relate to DP? Or lyrics from songs? Please, show me where anything in my forum relates to debatepolitics.com.
They can't, because they never knew. They never saw it, or understood it. You banned me because, although perhaps persistently, I was at least communicating with them straightforwardly by PM. No action on my part was to happen until everything was cleared with staff. It was wrong of you to assume this forum you never saw had connections to DP. It was just a convenient way to better remember things.
So, that's how the cookie crumbled.
With respect to Damocles and his forum, though we barely know one another this is in no way meant to disrespect you. Some tormentors have found their way here, and are content to lie. These people didn't know what happened, because DP staff relayed no links, pictures, or PMs. Those who already had a negative opinion are probably going to stay that way regardless of whatever evidence comes up. From experience, being cruel and mean is what sustains them. Being fully aware of the "Wake Banned" thread elsewhere, and how some there have openly said things along the lines of coming here get their shots in, I can tell you they're lying as evidenced in this very thread.
Paraphrasing Mr. Hitchens in regards to TheSpade: "If he were given an enema he could be burried in a matchbox."
You scurrilous little toadie. I wasn't banned for alt accounts. Read this thread before you post lie after lie. Also, who are you to talk about multiple personalities? You're no psychologist or psychiatrist. In fact, you're a troll who may as well be smearing others with epithets of "bi-polar" and "psycho." Though you lacked the integirty to use your real username to let us know who you are, I'm fairly certain you're one of the trolls who crawls in the filth of DP's Basement.
Anyways. Obviously nothing said here will change anything. If you were wronged, and dangled in front of you was a sliver of redemption, what would you do? There is no way to communicate with DP, because they're content to keep this quiet. In fact I've been told that when asked by a friend, they dodged and weaved, deciding to play stupid in hopes this will go away. Things are never that simple.
If petty revenge was the goal, 10+ accounts with untraceable IP addresses would be made, in order to sow discord and contention in a most unreportable way, much like the despicable hack Head of Joaquin does. Revenge transcends the peace that justice brings. It's wrong, no matter how right. What is now being set in motion cannot be stopped, thankfully. To feel some sort of vindication, an account or so will be made to once again post civilly and respectfully in DP. With my knowledge, efforts to stop it won't work. Besides, one member of staff involved in my banning insinuated that I was largely well-mannered and contributed to DP. You can't get rid of someone without a matching IP for being kind, fair, respectful, and articulate, I'm afraid. Friends are already ensuring the safest pathways are made. Normally I despise the use of alternative accounts because it's usually deceitful. However, with this lack of justice on DP's part it makes one wonder what else may have really happened to others. Guess it's something one has to reconcile when it happens to them, and it happens to very few. What is true is that not all forum bannings are 100% justified. Learned it in a most rude way, too. Gee, makes one wonder what really happened to Pinkie and others. With as much respect as can be mustered to them: I'll be back on DP soon.
To my friends: thanks for your patience, and your willingness to risk it all.
To justplainpolitics.com, Damocles, and all you new guys: I apologize for this perplexing beginning. This very thread serves as a link of communication, a bridge, to those over there trying to figure out what truly happened. My friends found me, and are helping to ensure a most secure and lasting return. It would destroy a person inside to not take the chance in providing a way to impart understanding of the event that shattered connections.
Yes, I was banned. Unjustly so, and forced to leave. In spite of what some unscrupulous folks have said here and elsewhere, only a handful of people know what truly happened. Since my friends found it worth it to give aid, lines of communication have been created, providing an indirect means for illumination and, perhaps, some glimmer of justice in the eyes of some. What is said in DP is clear, likewise what is said here will be seen by those from there. Those from the past have already made their parting shots here, but with this unsuspecting audience's patience, it will be explained thoroughly. ...so, where does one begin to explain?
The gears were set in motion about a month ago, in that a Zetaboards forum had been created and placed in my signature. Its function was straightforward: law-abiding members would cooperate in reporting certain trolls who brought down the quality of debatepolitics.com. DP has had a recurring problem of trolls and ridiculous political hacks. For those who took part, our goal was to help clean it up. A member like "Head of Joaquin," a rabid partisan hack who called all conservatives all manner of vile, horrible things, was a hemorrhoid. Likewise, there were also obscene conservative hacks who spread their filth, too. We were content to wait for them to make personal attacks and then report them, in the hopes of their eventual removal. The endeavor was doomed from the start, in that by playing vigilante other rules were broken, such as advertising and conspirac to get rid of members (hacks who say things like all homosexuals are evil and all gun owners are cultists). A perma-ban hearing was held, where sincere apologies and understanding was given in turn for not being banned, but temporarily suspended for 2 weeks. It was a stupid move in which we played the part of vigilantes moving in the interest of civility.
After the hearing resolved, this was given just prior to the temp-suspension.
Indeed, my action was stupid and what the man said was right. I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm blameless. In the interest of not being banned from DP, all stipulations were met. The member "Curious" was granted permission to become Admin and view everything. Afterwards, it was deleted. "You will delete the forum altogether and never do something like this again." "Something" and "like" being key words.
So during those two weeks of suspension options were considered. As long as something like this never happened again, everything should be alright, right? Remembering plans of the past, it was decided, upon return, to try a different idea that predated 2009. This was over a year before joining DP in 2010. A Zetaboard forum whose function was to gather, store, and organize neutral, empirical, and sourced information. This concept was tried in the past a few times, but the problem was over-expansion, in gathering too much data and creating too many organized sections too quickly. The latest version would be streamlined, and concentrated.... new sections would be added slowly.
After the temporary suspension, I decided before even attempting such a thing, it'd be wise to talk with forum staff about this forum BEFORE sigging it. The past mistake gave reason to be careful and follow DP rules to the smallest detail. Indeed, it was around a week of DP staff talking amongst themselves in secret over what their response would be. If I didn't "give a ****" about staff, I wouldn't have come to them straightforwardly and honestly, but just posted it without running it by them first. Waiting patiently, an answer was received.
Perhaps I misunderstood him, but he made it clear that under no circumstances were I to make a forum that has anything to do with DP. As long as the forum in my signature had absolutely NO references to debatepolitics, like quotes and links, there would be nothing to fear. In short, it contained a Cooking section with numerous recipes, a forum with songs and lyrics, and a forum with pictures and emoticons. Despite that, I asked staff if they even wanted to view the forum themselves NOT to advertise it to them, but to ensure no rules were broken. They did not. Whatever their feelings were, the goal was to make sure no rules were broken. If no rules were broken, it was legal.
Even after the new forum in question was ensured to have no references to DP, it was not enough. Why? Can a recipe found in a cookbook relate to DP? If so, how? See, this forum housed absolutely no information relating to DP, and yet despite staff not ever having seen the forum, they said it did. Afterward, I remembering responding with something along the lines of "your previous PM said that as long as a forum was put in my signature and it contained absolutely no reference to debatepolitics.com at all, it would be alright. You have contradicted yourself by either saying I can have a neutral forum and be banned, or have no forum and stay; the third option was having a sigged forum in accordance with all DP rules."
Waking up the next morning, I find myself banned with a new email. Why? Is talking with staff about making sure something is OK with the rules before doing something a bannable offense?
Regardless of current status, punishment should only be given when rules are broken. Isn't that how society works? The forum was even made so that nothing political or otherwise in reference to DP was part of it. In fact, this new forum was never put on DP, whether by PM, signature, or post. They don't even know what it looks like, or what it is named. See, I have it with me right now, and this will be the first time anyone besides me has seen it. An account was banned because of this:
http://w11.zetaboards.com/Xtraction/index/
Clearly, a recipe for Pickled Asparagus Spears is a bannable offense that relates in absolutely every way to debatepolitics.com. I guess I'm guilty as charged, in that these asparagus spears are grown on the grounds of DP's fertile acres, so obviously it's a trademark violation. If you look closely, the very jars in author Marissa McClellan's books tit directly to DP because "DP" is so transparently etched in bottom of the jars. The Strawberry Preserves with Lemon Verbena? Definitely grown on DP grounds.
How do recipes relate to DP? Or lyrics from songs? Please, show me where anything in my forum relates to debatepolitics.com.
They can't, because they never knew. They never saw it, or understood it. You banned me because, although perhaps persistently, I was at least communicating with them straightforwardly by PM. No action on my part was to happen until everything was cleared with staff. It was wrong of you to assume this forum you never saw had connections to DP. It was just a convenient way to better remember things.
So, that's how the cookie crumbled.
With respect to Damocles and his forum, though we barely know one another this is in no way meant to disrespect you. Some tormentors have found their way here, and are content to lie. These people didn't know what happened, because DP staff relayed no links, pictures, or PMs. Those who already had a negative opinion are probably going to stay that way regardless of whatever evidence comes up. From experience, being cruel and mean is what sustains them. Being fully aware of the "Wake Banned" thread elsewhere, and how some there have openly said things along the lines of coming here get their shots in, I can tell you they're lying as evidenced in this very thread.
Paraphrasing Mr. Hitchens in regards to TheSpade: "If he were given an enema he could be burried in a matchbox."
You scurrilous little toadie. I wasn't banned for alt accounts. Read this thread before you post lie after lie. Also, who are you to talk about multiple personalities? You're no psychologist or psychiatrist. In fact, you're a troll who may as well be smearing others with epithets of "bi-polar" and "psycho." Though you lacked the integirty to use your real username to let us know who you are, I'm fairly certain you're one of the trolls who crawls in the filth of DP's Basement.
Anyways. Obviously nothing said here will change anything. If you were wronged, and dangled in front of you was a sliver of redemption, what would you do? There is no way to communicate with DP, because they're content to keep this quiet. In fact I've been told that when asked by a friend, they dodged and weaved, deciding to play stupid in hopes this will go away. Things are never that simple.
If petty revenge was the goal, 10+ accounts with untraceable IP addresses would be made, in order to sow discord and contention in a most unreportable way, much like the despicable hack Head of Joaquin does. Revenge transcends the peace that justice brings. It's wrong, no matter how right. What is now being set in motion cannot be stopped, thankfully. To feel some sort of vindication, an account or so will be made to once again post civilly and respectfully in DP. With my knowledge, efforts to stop it won't work. Besides, one member of staff involved in my banning insinuated that I was largely well-mannered and contributed to DP. You can't get rid of someone without a matching IP for being kind, fair, respectful, and articulate, I'm afraid. Friends are already ensuring the safest pathways are made. Normally I despise the use of alternative accounts because it's usually deceitful. However, with this lack of justice on DP's part it makes one wonder what else may have really happened to others. Guess it's something one has to reconcile when it happens to them, and it happens to very few. What is true is that not all forum bannings are 100% justified. Learned it in a most rude way, too. Gee, makes one wonder what really happened to Pinkie and others. With as much respect as can be mustered to them: I'll be back on DP soon.
To my friends: thanks for your patience, and your willingness to risk it all.
To justplainpolitics.com, Damocles, and all you new guys: I apologize for this perplexing beginning. This very thread serves as a link of communication, a bridge, to those over there trying to figure out what truly happened. My friends found me, and are helping to ensure a most secure and lasting return. It would destroy a person inside to not take the chance in providing a way to impart understanding of the event that shattered connections.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Yes, I was banned. Unjustly so, and forced to leave. In spite of what some unscrupulous folks have said here and elsewhere, only a handful of people know what truly happened. Since my friends found it worth it to give aid, lines of communication have been created, providing an indirect means for illumination and, perhaps, some glimmer of justice in the eyes of some. What is said in DP is clear, likewise what is said here will be seen by those from there. Those from the past have already made their parting shots here, but with this unsuspecting audience's patience, it will be explained thoroughly. ...so, where does one begin to explain?
The gears were set in motion about a month ago, in that a Zetaboards forum had been created and placed in my signature. Its function was straightforward: law-abiding members would cooperate in reporting certain trolls who brought down the quality of debatepolitics.com. DP has had a recurring problem of trolls and ridiculous political hacks. For those who took part, our goal was to help clean it up. A member like "Head of Joaquin," a rabid partisan hack who called all conservatives all manner of vile, horrible things, was a hemorrhoid. Likewise, there were also obscene conservative hacks who spread their filth, too. We were content to wait for them to make personal attacks and then report them, in the hopes of their eventual removal. The endeavor was doomed from the start, in that by playing vigilante other rules were broken, such as advertising and conspirac to get rid of members (hacks who say things like all homosexuals are evil and all gun owners are cultists). A perma-ban hearing was held, where sincere apologies and understanding was given in turn for not being banned, but temporarily suspended for 2 weeks. It was a stupid move in which we played the part of vigilantes moving in the interest of civility.
After the hearing resolved, this was given just prior to the temp-suspension.
Indeed, my action was stupid and what the man said was right. I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm blameless. In the interest of not being banned from DP, all stipulations were met. The member "Curious" was granted permission to become Admin and view everything. Afterwards, it was deleted. "You will delete the forum altogether and never do something like this again." "Something" and "like" being key words.
So during those two weeks of suspension options were considered. As long as something like this never happened again, everything should be alright, right? Remembering plans of the past, it was decided, upon return, to try a different idea that predated 2009. This was over a year before joining DP in 2010. A Zetaboard forum whose function was to gather, store, and organize neutral, empirical, and sourced information. This concept was tried in the past a few times, but the problem was over-expansion, in gathering too much data and creating too many organized sections too quickly. The latest version would be streamlined, and concentrated.... new sections would be added slowly.
After the temporary suspension, I decided before even attempting such a thing, it'd be wise to talk with forum staff about this forum BEFORE sigging it. The past mistake gave reason to be careful and follow DP rules to the smallest detail. Indeed, it was around a week of DP staff talking amongst themselves in secret over what their response would be. If I didn't "give a ****" about staff, I wouldn't have come to them straightforwardly and honestly, but just posted it without running it by them first. Waiting patiently, an answer was received.
Perhaps I misunderstood him, but he made it clear that under no circumstances were I to make a forum that has anything to do with DP. As long as the forum in my signature had absolutely NO references to debatepolitics, like quotes and links, there would be nothing to fear. In short, it contained a Cooking section with numerous recipes, a forum with songs and lyrics, and a forum with pictures and emoticons. Despite that, I asked staff if they even wanted to view the forum themselves NOT to advertise it to them, but to ensure no rules were broken. They did not. Whatever their feelings were, the goal was to make sure no rules were broken. If no rules were broken, it was legal.
Even after the new forum in question was ensured to have no references to DP, it was not enough. Why? Can a recipe found in a cookbook relate to DP? If so, how? See, this forum housed absolutely no information relating to DP, and yet despite staff not ever having seen the forum, they said it did. Afterward, I remembering responding with something along the lines of "your previous PM said that as long as a forum was put in my signature and it contained absolutely no reference to debatepolitics.com at all, it would be alright. You have contradicted yourself by either saying I can have a neutral forum and be banned, or have no forum and stay; the third option was having a sigged forum in accordance with all DP rules."
Waking up the next morning, I find myself banned with a new email. Why? Is talking with staff about making sure something is OK with the rules before doing something a bannable offense?
Regardless of current status, punishment should only be given when rules are broken. Isn't that how society works? The forum was even made so that nothing political or otherwise in reference to DP was part of it. In fact, this new forum was never put on DP, whether by PM, signature, or post. They don't even know what it looks like, or what it is named. See, I have it with me right now, and this will be the first time anyone besides me has seen it. An account was banned because of this:
http://w11.zetaboards.com/Xtraction/index/
Clearly, a recipe for Pickled Asparagus Spears is a bannable offense that relates in absolutely every way to debatepolitics.com. I guess I'm guilty as charged, in that these asparagus spears are grown on the grounds of DP's fertile acres, so obviously it's a trademark violation. If you look closely, the very jars in author Marissa McClellan's books tit directly to DP because "DP" is so transparently etched in bottom of the jars. The Strawberry Preserves with Lemon Verbena? Definitely grown on DP grounds.
How do recipes relate to DP? Or lyrics from songs? Please, show me where anything in my forum relates to debatepolitics.com.
They can't, because they never knew. They never saw it, or understood it. You banned me because, although perhaps persistently, I was at least communicating with them straightforwardly by PM. No action on my part was to happen until everything was cleared with staff. It was wrong of you to assume this forum you never saw had connections to DP. It was just a convenient way to better remember things.
So, that's how the cookie crumbled.
With respect to Damocles and his forum, though we barely know one another this is in no way meant to disrespect you. Some tormentors have found their way here, and are content to lie. These people didn't know what happened, because DP staff relayed no links, pictures, or PMs. Those who already had a negative opinion are probably going to stay that way regardless of whatever evidence comes up. From experience, being cruel and mean is what sustains them. Being fully aware of the "Wake Banned" thread elsewhere, and how some there have openly said things along the lines of coming here get their shots in, I can tell you they're lying as evidenced in this very thread.
Paraphrasing Mr. Hitchens in regards to TheSpade: "If he were given an enema he could be burried in a matchbox."
You scurrilous little toadie. I wasn't banned for alt accounts. Read this thread before you post lie after lie. Also, who are you to talk about multiple personalities? You're no psychologist or psychiatrist. In fact, you're a troll who may as well be smearing others with epithets of "bi-polar" and "psycho." Though you lacked the integirty to use your real username to let us know who you are, I'm fairly certain you're one of the trolls who crawls in the filth of DP's Basement.
Anyways. Obviously nothing said here will change anything. If you were wronged, and dangled in front of you was a sliver of redemption, what would you do? There is no way to communicate with DP, because they're content to keep this quiet. In fact I've been told that when asked by a friend, they dodged and weaved, deciding to play stupid in hopes this will go away. Things are never that simple.
If petty revenge was the goal, 10+ accounts with untraceable IP addresses would be made, in order to sow discord and contention in a most unreportable way, much like the despicable hack Head of Joaquin does. Revenge transcends the peace that justice brings. It's wrong, no matter how right. What is now being set in motion cannot be stopped, thankfully. To feel some sort of vindication, an account or so will be made to once again post civilly and respectfully in DP. With my knowledge, efforts to stop it won't work. Besides, one member of staff involved in my banning insinuated that I was largely well-mannered and contributed to DP. You can't get rid of someone without a matching IP for being kind, fair, respectful, and articulate, I'm afraid. Friends are already ensuring the safest pathways are made. Normally I despise the use of alternative accounts because it's usually deceitful. However, with this lack of justice on DP's part it makes one wonder what else may have really happened to others. Guess it's something one has to reconcile when it happens to them, and it happens to very few. What is true is that not all forum bannings are 100% justified. Learned it in a most rude way, too. Gee, makes one wonder what really happened to Pinkie and others. With as much respect as can be mustered to them: I'll be back on DP soon.
To my friends: thanks for your patience, and your willingness to risk it all.
To justplainpolitics.com, Damocles, and all you new guys: I apologize for this perplexing beginning. This very thread serves as a link of communication, a bridge, to those over there trying to figure out what truly happened. My friends found me, and are helping to ensure a most secure and lasting return. It would destroy a person inside to not take the chance in providing a way to impart understanding of the event that shattered connections.
bro relax, you didn't need to type all that. it's all good. welcome to jpp
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
♪┏(・o･)┛♪┗ (･o･ ) ┓♪;1169692 said:bro relax, you didn't need to type all that. it's all good. welcome to jpp
Yeah, no offense but we really don't give a fuck. I honestly wouldn't care if you murdered half of DP's members and then had sex with the bodies, as long as you follow our rules here.
Grind and Damo may suck, but as with their moderating, they do it with aplomb.
I'm Watermark
Diabetic
You're perfectly welcome, but make sure to stay away from the nonsense you've displayed on this thread. JPP is much more of a politically oriented forum than Debate Politics.
Well, we sometimes call it that too.