Herman Cain: Communities should be able to ban mosques

[WinterBorn]

You would not tolerate Baptists or Catholics attempting to codify church law into societal law, you would be strongly opposed to that, and if that were their stated mission, goal, and objective, you would say that communities had the right to reject this belief and advocacy of something contradictory to our very principles. Yet, here are people doing exactly that, and you endorse their right to do so!

No, I would not tolerate their attempts to codify church law into our law. But their attempting to do so would not remove their right to worship as they chose.

I am not endorsing their right to make sharia law into our law. But I am endorsing their right to worhip as they please and to have a mosque in which to do so.

 

[WinterBorn]

But Sharia Law is the antithesis of free society. They believe in, and want to establish, Sharia as law of the land... you okay with that? Cain is simply saying, we have the right, as communities, to reject radical Islam, regardless of whether they want to classify it as "religion." I have the right to protest the KKK establishing itself in my community, it doesn't matter if they call it a church or a mosque, or a den or chapter... I have the right to say NO... HELL NO! NOT IN MY COMMUNITY!

You havethe right to PROTEST the KKK. You do not have the right to deny them their 1st Amendment rights.

 

[WinterBorn]

Let's be clear, no one is denying anyone the right to practice their religion. Communities DO have the right to reject things masquerading as religion, which contradict the basic principles of western democracy.

Right. They can practice their religion as long as they do it in someone's home and not in a mosque?

And who decides what group is "masquerading"?? That kind of thinking is far more dangerous than Islam.

 

[WinterBorn]

Doesn't matter how it would take hold, what matters is, we have the right to reject things that contradict our system of government and way of life, as well as seeking to destroy our Constitution and undermine our Constitutional freedoms. You're still stuck on ..."aww, what's the big harm?" and the "harm" is endorsing and advocating something in direct conflict with the Constitution. Any religious group has the right to practice their religious beliefs, as long as those religious beliefs conform to our way of life and Constitutional values. People can't sacrifice virgins into a volcano because it's their religious belief... this would violate other more prudent Constitutional rights. That's not denying someone the right to practice their religion, it's requiring their religion to conform to our culture and rules.

It doesn't matter how it would take hold? It damn well does matter! You are wanting to toss out the US Constitution because of this imminent threat of Sharia Law, and now say it doesn't matter?

 

[WinterBorn]

Well then, you aren't comprehending what is being said. I can't help you comprehend better, if you want to remain ignorant that is your business. I just wanted to explain the position taken by Cain, and the position held by a good many people who would be offended you said they were "un-American."

The example you gave doesn't apply because it doesn't matter at this point. No one thinks the small insignificant contingent of Muslims in America would be able to implement Sharia Law... that is not the argument here! The KKK isn't going to be able to implement Klan law either... does that mean we shouldn't bother rejecting their message and instead, embrace their right to preach hate? The example I gave about casting virgins in the volcano is better... would you support a church who believed that was their right to do?

There is a distinction between supporting the right to freely worship a religion and endorsing something counter to our beliefs as a society, in the name of religion. If you can't discern the difference, I can't help you understand. It's like saying you support Athiests religious rights to destroy Christianity... it simply doesn't fly. You can either support religious freedom, or you can support the destruction of religious freedom and implementation of Sharia.... you can't do BOTH!

No, it is not the same as saying we support the right of atheists to destroy christianity. We are not supporting anyone's right to destroy anything. We are supporting everyone's right to BELIEVE what they want and worship as they choose (within the laws of our nation).

Yes, I support the right of a religion to believe in sacrificing virgins. I would not allow them to legally do so.

I support the right of atheists to believe that christians are misguided fools. I would not allow them to ban churches.

I support the right of baptists to believe that anyone not saved is doomed to burn in hell. I would not allow them to burn people.

I support the right of the KKK to assemble and march. I would not allow them to lynch anyone.


Can you see the difference Dixie? This nation allows all beliefs. We forbid and punish acts which break our laws, not beliefs.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yes I do embrace the legal ability of the KKK to preach what they want. That in no way means I support what they are saying but they have the 1st amendment right to their f'd up views. And we already said U.S. laws supercede any religious belief so if some religious people threw virgins in a volcano they would be on trial for murder.

To me, someone is going to use the exact same argument you are using against Islamic mosques for some issue you and I support.

Herman Cain has a lot of positive things to say. Why he is wasting his time on this issue is beyond me and it is not helping him gain any tranction with the American public or more specifically Republican primary voters.

The KKK has a right to freely express their hate, and Muslims have the right to freely advocate Sharia... what neither has a right to do, is construct a building in a community against the will of the people, for the express purpose of destroying the culture and values of said community. If the Klan wanted to build an "outreach center" in you town, on your block, next door to your home... would you be okay with that, so long as they called it a "religious exercise?" That's essentially what you are saying here.

It's ironic that you see the point with the virgins in the volcano example... how can you deny them the right to practice their religion? They believe they must cast virgins in the volcano or bad shit will happen... yet you want to deny them that right? What's the difference in denying Muslims the right to advocate Sharia Law? Am I missing something?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Right. They can practice their religion as long as they do it in someone's home and not in a mosque?

And who decides what group is "masquerading"?? That kind of thinking is far more dangerous than Islam.

Who decides? WE decide, based on the preaching and teaching of their Mullahs and Clerics. What's dangerous is YOUR kind of thinking, that we can allow people to systemically destroy the Constitution in the name of protecting their Constitutional rights!

It doesn't matter how it would take hold? It damn well does matter! You are wanting to toss out the US Constitution because of this imminent threat of Sharia Law, and now say it doesn't matter?

No, it damn well doesn't matter! I don't want to toss out the Constitution, I want to protect the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic....that includes radical Islamics who want to destroy America under the guise of religious freedom.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

No, I would not tolerate their attempts to codify church law into our law. But their attempting to do so would not remove their right to worship as they chose.

I am not endorsing their right to make sharia law into our law. But I am endorsing their right to worhip as they please and to have a mosque in which to do so.

Their right to "worship as they choose" includes implementing and enforcing Sharia Law! This is what they preach, this is what they advocate, this is what they want for every American... they don't believe in our system of government or our Constitution, and they don't give a damn about ANY Constitutional right.

I believe what Cain is saying is, we have to make a distinction here, when it comes to Islam... it's not what we've been led to believe, it's not a "religion of peace" and the preaching/teaching is contradictory to our western principles and the Constitution itself. The distinction is between a legitimate religious exercise, which Islam is not... and radical fundamental Islamic Fascism, which is exactly what Islam is about.

 

[cawacko]

The KKK has a right to freely express their hate, and Muslims have the right to freely advocate Sharia... what neither has a right to do, is construct a building in a community against the will of the people, for the express purpose of destroying the culture and values of said community. If the Klan wanted to build an "outreach center" in you town, on your block, next door to your home... would you be okay with that, so long as they called it a "religious exercise?" That's essentially what you are saying here.

It's ironic that you see the point with the virgins in the volcano example... how can you deny them the right to practice their religion? They believe they must cast virgins in the volcano or bad shit will happen... yet you want to deny them that right? What's the difference in denying Muslims the right to advocate Sharia Law? Am I missing something?

Muslims can advocate Sharia Law all they want. In fact if they can get enough people elected to local, state and national government they can pass a constitutional amendment(s) adopting parts or all of Sharia Law. That of course will never happen.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Herman Cain has a lot of positive things to say. Why he is wasting his time on this issue is beyond me and it is not helping him gain any tranction with the American public or more specifically Republican primary voters.

I admire Cain for having the balls to say this, and not particularly care about the political fallout from people who want to misinterpret what he said. If you want to jump on the PC Bandwagon with the pinheads and decry Cain as a racist intolerant religious bigot who hates Muslims, so be it... you didn't get the message, you didn't want to get the message... you are tuned out, and tuned in to the PC message that we must bend over backwards to do anything we can to make it easier for radical Islam to bring down America. You've been brainwashed by the left to think of Islam as a "religion" when it's a PERVERSION... not a religion!

 

[cawacko]

Who decides? WE decide, based on the preaching and teaching of their Mullahs and Clerics. What's dangerous is YOUR kind of thinking, that we can allow people to systemically destroy the Constitution in the name of protecting their Constitutional rights!



No, it damn well doesn't matter! I don't want to toss out the Constitution, I want to protect the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic....that includes radical Islamics who want to destroy America under the guise of religious freedom.

Dixie, how are they destroying the Constitution? By talking about Sharia Law?

 

[cawacko]

I admire Cain for having the balls to say this, and not particularly care about the political fallout from people who want to misinterpret what he said. If you want to jump on the PC Bandwagon with the pinheads and decry Cain as a racist intolerant religious bigot who hates Muslims, so be it... you didn't get the message, you didn't want to get the message... you are tuned out, and tuned in to the PC message that we must bend over backwards to do anything we can to make it easier for radical Islam to bring down America. You've been brainwashed by the left to think of Islam as a "religion" when it's a PERVERSION... not a religion!

LOL... I never once said anything close to calling Cain a racist intolerant religious bigot who hates Muslims. All I've said is I disagree with him saying that. If disagreeing with him means in your mind that I think he is a racist intolerant religious bigot who hates Muslims then I don't know what to tell you.

I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I'm no fan on Islam but I also don't believe in trying to ban them from our country.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie, how are they destroying the Constitution? By talking about Sharia Law?

The Muslims don't sit around saying... "Gee, it would sure be nice if we had Sharia Law...." If that were all there was to this, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Again, it is a foundational and fundamental part of their religious belief, that western culture and civilization MUST CAPITULATE to Sharia Law. And Sharia Law is a complete contradiction and abdication of the Constitution and our principles.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

LOL... I never once said anything close to calling Cain a racist intolerant religious bigot who hates Muslims. All I've said is I disagree with him saying that. If disagreeing with him means in your mind that I think he is a racist intolerant religious bigot who hates Muslims then I don't know what to tell you.

I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I'm no fan on Islam but I also don't believe in trying to ban them from our country.

No one has tried to ban them from our country! A community said NO to a mosque being built... that is a far cry from banning all Muslims from America! Yes, you HAVE been brainwashed! You accept the notion that Islam is a traditional religion which practices traditional religious beliefs, and we have a duty and obligation to protect their rights to do so... and if I believed that's what Islam was, I would agree with you, but it's NOT what Islam is, and we need to face the facts here. This is not a "religion" at all, it is a fascist totalitarian movement to destroy western civilization. You want to allow them to continue to hide behind the banner of religion, and claim this is their religious right to preach this garbage known as Sharia. A set of laws which condemn homosexuality and promiscuity, and relegate women to less of a status than a dog or a goat.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I think that was basically the argument Cain was making, they have crossed the line. While you do have 1st Amendment rights, they don't supersede the 1st Amendment rights of others.

The problem with that though is that it is an unsubstantiated allegation.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Turkey, or the Ottoman Empire.

Not hardly. The conversion of Byzantium to Islam and the origins of the Ottoman Empire occurred over a 300 year period (from 700 ad to 1000 ad) and hardly resulted in that many deaths as what occurred when Spaniards committed genocide against Mexican natives with the blessings of the Catholic Church.

 

[The Dude]

Is anybody buying Dixtard as the expert on Isam.
Bigoted fucking redneck

 

[Mott the Hoople]

You know we have several Mosque here on Columbus and have had for quite some time. I aint exactly seen any women running around in burkas, being stoned for adultery. I don't see masses of people bowing to Mecca 5 times a day and last I knew polygomy was still illegal.

 

[WinterBorn]

The KKK has a right to freely express their hate, and Muslims have the right to freely advocate Sharia... what neither has a right to do, is construct a building in a community against the will of the people, for the express purpose of destroying the culture and values of said community. If the Klan wanted to build an "outreach center" in you town, on your block, next door to your home... would you be okay with that, so long as they called it a "religious exercise?" That's essentially what you are saying here.

It's ironic that you see the point with the virgins in the volcano example... how can you deny them the right to practice their religion? They believe they must cast virgins in the volcano or bad shit will happen... yet you want to deny them that right? What's the difference in denying Muslims the right to advocate Sharia Law? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing the entire point. The point is that they are free to believe whatever they want. What they don't have the right to do is violate our laws or our constitution.

Unless you are wanting to set a precedent that we can restrict someone's rights because of what they believe, you should be against this as well.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

You know we have several Mosque here on Columbus and have had for quite some time. I aint exactly seen any women running around in burkas, being stoned for adultery. I don't see masses of people bowing to Mecca 5 times a day and last I knew polygomy was still illegal.

yet, honor killings have already occurred in Texas, Georgia, Minnesota, New York, and Arizona for reasons ranging from being raped to wearing blue jeans.......

https://theboldcorsicanflame.wordpress.com/tag/usa-sharia-law-honor-killing-iraqi/
http://www.rense.com/general88/mus6.htm

I'm curious......what would your opinion be if a Catholic school was teaching their students that it is right and proper to a parent to kill a child for failing to go to confession......