How OBL bankrupted the US

Well, they want it, and we increasingly don't want freedom these days... I think we are waging a war of cultures that we cannot win (out of not giving a shit), but I could be wrong. We have survived conflict with Islamic Civilization for 13.5 Centuries, afterall, but then we also gave a shit until the last century...
 
Superfreak said:
Pay attention... Desh said it was due to OBL.... Iraq was not a result of OBL...
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actually, desh and her article strongly suggest otherwise...i have been trying to get her to make the statement plain, e.g., that obl is responsible for iraq, but she has back peddled along with onceler.

Instigating America to destroy Iraq was a triumph of genius. He must have known about the neoconservative cabal in Washington that was itching to start wars and destroy Iraq. In bin Laden's wildest dreams he then imagined that he could get an enraged America to destroy his enemies while, at the same time, isolating itself from allies and becoming seriously weakened. His prime Arab enemy, secular nationalist socialism, was embodied by the Ba'athist rulers in Iraq
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uscitizen said:
Bush , his supporters and fraidy cats in the USA are responsible for Iraq.
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^lol^

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
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On October 11, 2002, the United States Senate voted 77-23 in favor of Joint Resolution 114 – the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.
 
Yurt said:
^lol^

is that the word for...can't answer questions so ad hominem...can't defend stance so ad hominem...

fits you to a tee!
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Like I said - too much Hannity. At least I don't lie to make a point.

And I answered your question; you have an inability to listen. Frankly, I have never heard someone sound quite so retarded regarding terrorism, and what its goals are w/ regard to the U.S., and how it has contributed to our economic situation.

It's a little scary that people can't make even the simplest connections like that, but kind of funny, too.
 
Onceler said:
Like I said - too much Hannity. At least I don't lie to make a point.

And I answered your question; you have an inability to listen. Frankly, I have never heard someone sound quite so retarded regarding terrorism, and what its goals are w/ regard to the U.S., and how it has contributed to our economic situation.

It's a little scary that people can't make even the simplest connections like that, but kind of funny, too.
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i didn't lie, i was teasing, you know, honest deception...i made it very obvious dunceler so that you would catch it....and you i don't listen to hannity, another lie from you, disappointing really.

what is scary is that you can't back up your point and you can't explain it, all you have done is keep repeating that you "have" explained it....i am telling you that you have not, first you basically blamed iraq on obl, then you sorta stepped back from that position and you have never recovered.

what is pathetic is that you spend so much time posting about your alleged explanations instead of actually stating them a different way or continually explaining them instead of doing nothing but mindless insults. you haven't answered squat, all you have are weak ad hominems....and your obsession with me and hannity is a little gay
 
Onceler said:
Like I said - too much Hannity. At least I don't lie to make a point.

And I answered your question; you have an inability to listen. Frankly, I have never heard someone sound quite so retarded regarding terrorism, and what its goals are w/ regard to the U.S., and how it has contributed to our economic situation.

It's a little scary that people can't make even the simplest connections like that, but kind of funny, too.
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My good brother .. neither republicans nor democrats have clean hands on Iraq. In fact, the ONLY democrat who is in Obama's Administration who did not vote for the use of force in Iraq is Obama himself .. through what I believe was a brilliant calculated move. The ONLY reason Obama is the president is because he was the ONLY democrat running who had a chance to win who didn't vote for the invasion and wholesale slaughter of innocent people who didn't have a goddamn thing to do with 9/11, terrorism, WMD, or Saddam's regime.

When Cynthia McKinney, who had more balls then the entire democratic congress put together, stood up and spoke absolute 1000% truth about the invasion of Iraq, democrats along with AIPAC worked to get rid of her .. it was Zell Miller who called her a "loony." McKinney was soon out of office and Zell Miller went on to show up at the Republican Convention. When McKinney was re-elected, Nancy Pelosi would not return her seniority, as is always normally done, because they did not want her back on the Armed Services Committee .. because they knew she would speak the truth.

Thus, six-term Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney served her term in office as a freshman .. barred from committee leadership and vital information. Here's a clue .. there are cameras EVERYWHERE in Longworth and every building in DC that Members of Congress have offices in. IF the incident with McKinney happened as described in the halls of Longworth, they'd have it on camera. Have you seen the video? Of course you haven't because it does not exist, nor has it ever existed describing the incident as told to the ever gullible American public .. which includes democrats and republicans.

How did Bush ever have an 80% approval rating without including a whole bunch of democrats?

Truth is that we exist in the Matrix and your reality is shaped for you .. but it ain't real my brother.

BOTH democrats and republicans are responsible for Iraq and BOTH democrats and republicans are responsible for George Bush.

What Yurt is saying on this issue is simply a truth you don't want to hear .. nor is the truth that democrats aren't one damn bit smarter about the workings of our government than republicans are.

Here's the REAL scary part .. innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan are being murdered for profit. The average life span in Afghanistan is about 40 years old and the lives of these people are miserable. They've been attacked and savaged by all manner of foreign powers and America is just another one them. The scary part is that there are precious few Americans who even have the humanity to give a damn .. or the intelligence to recognize the horror that takes place in our name. We don't fucking care .. and if I had a wish I would make every fucking American, Clockwork Orange style, be forced to sit and watch images of babies and small children in sheer agony as the skin is melted right off their bodies with the white phosphorous weapons WE manufacture and use on innocent human beings .. and watch the horror on the faces of innocent people who hear large US military planes approaching that are about to drop big ass motherfucking bombs on the heads of their families, knowing there is no where to run, nowhere to hide to protect their loved ones.

That's my wish.

Take the red pill my brother. Truth is right in front of you.
 
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BAC - can you show me where on this thread that I said it was solely the Republicans fault, or even brought up Democrats & Republicans as they relate to the disaster known as Iraq?

The discussion here is how OBL caused the U.S. to deteriorate economically, as was his stated goal. Our reaction to 9/11 certainly helped his cause in that regard, which is the argument I'm making, and which I think is fairly indisputable.

Still, that doesn't stop you from yet again chiming in that the village idiot here "has a point."

And while I accept that both Dems & Republicans are complicit in this war, you & I will always disagree about the measure of accountability that lies with Bush, who was a willing patsy for PNAC. Yes, everyone else went along with it, but there is a special place in hell for the ones who put it out there in the first place.
 
Onceler said:
BAC - can you show me where on this thread that I said it was solely the Republicans fault, or even brought up Democrats & Republicans as they relate to the disaster known as Iraq?

The discussion here is how OBL caused the U.S. to deteriorate economically, as was his stated goal. Our reaction to 9/11 certainly helped his cause in that regard, which is the argument I'm making, and which I think is fairly indisputable.

Still, that doesn't stop you from yet again chiming in that the village idiot here "has a point."

And while I accept that both Dems & Republicans are complicit in this war, you & I will always disagree about the measure of accountability that lies with Bush, who was a willing patsy for PNAC. Yes, everyone else went along with it, but there is a special place in hell for the ones who put it out there in the first place.
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There is a special place in Hell for everyone who supported this wholesale mass-murder of innocent people.

It doesn't matter what has been CLAIMED that ex-CIA operative Bin Laden said .. he did not cause the destruction of the US economy by ANY stretch of the imagination. That is simply a refusal to look in the mirror and point the blame where it should be pointed.

Bin Laden DID NOT cause the US to invade Iraq .. capitalism did.

Bin Laden DID NOT cause the US to spend, waste, throw away, lose, and shower BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars on some of the most despicable characters on earth .. capitalism and bad geopolitical strategy did.

BIN Laden DID NOT have a goddamn thing to do with the housing crisis and collapse of financial and banking institutions in America .. Larry Summers did .. who is now the Chief Economic Adviser for Obama.

Did Bin Laden vote for NAFTA?

Is Bin Laden giving American corporations tax breaks when they move overseas?

Did Bin Laden turn the American government over to corporations?

Did Bin Laden vote for Bush's tax cuts?

Suggesting Bin Laden is responsible for the economic collapse in America is ridiculous.
 
BAC, you have a really - and I mean REALLY - bad habit of putting words in people's mouths. It's annoying, and beyond that, makes a rational discussion impossible.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't respond to my posts anymore.
 
Onceler said:
BAC, you have a really - and I mean REALLY - bad habit of putting words in people's mouths. It's annoying, and beyond that, makes a rational discussion impossible.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't respond to my posts anymore.
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:)

Strange .. but that's the same bullshit I heard from republicans when I criticized Bush.

I recognize your fear and desire to say whatever you want on this issue without being encumbered by truth, logic, facts, or common sense .. but just as I said to republicans .. fuck that.

Man up my brother. I am not going to allow bullshit to get spoken without challenging it because I am a citizen, not a fucking subject, and I recognize my duty and responsibility to challenge bullshit that has a negative impact on America and my children. I don't give a fuck about party loyalty .. my loyalty is to America and my children. As I have always done here, I'm going to challenge bullshit and propaganda, including when you say it.

Feel free to ignore me if you must .. but I am not going to ignore you. Man up and challenge my facts and conclusions with your own, but running won't help you.

I have no desire to make a cyber-enemy of you and I think you speak with wisdom on many other subjects. Just as I can disagree with Yurt on other subjects, but agree with him on others, the same is true of you my brother.
 
Hey BAC? Fuck off. Unless you can show me where on this thread that I interjected Republican/Democrat into this debate (before your thread above alleging that I did), or where I said OBL was the sole reason for our economic collapse, then you are wrong, and you are too proud & stubborn to admit it.

I'm tired of your non-sequitur lectures. My only point has been that America - as a nation & gov't - has played into OBL's hands, and helped him toward his goal of bankrupting the West. Not that there weren't other stupid decisions regarding the economy; not that Republicans were solely responsible.

So spare me. You were wrong, as you usually are, and put all kinds of words in my mouth to make your "point," which was almost entirely unrelated to the discussion on the thread.

Enjoy debate w/ your new pal Yurt.
 
Bac did you read the original post?

I think you all need to chill out.

The point of this thread was to get some to think about the idiot idea that cowboy diplomacy is the way to go.

When you shoot at the hip and asks the important questions afterwards you fuck yourself.

Its time for people to think deeper about how we do diplomacy because if you dont , you get played time and time again.

Lets never be this stupid again.

Bac you and Onceler have more in common than you have appart. Please dont fall into the trap of helping the right wing corporate whores tear us appart before we can even accomplish anything.
 
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