How OBL bankrupted the US

Onceler said:
Hey BAC? Fuck off. Unless you can show me where on this thread that I interjected Republican/Democrat into this debate (before your thread above alleging that I did), or where I said OBL was the sole reason for our economic collapse, then you are wrong, and you are too proud & stubborn to admit it.

I'm tired of your non-sequitur lectures. My only point has been that America - as a nation & gov't - has played into OBL's hands, and helped him toward his goal of bankrupting the West. Not that there weren't other stupid decisions regarding the economy; not that Republicans were solely responsible.

So spare me. You were wrong, as you usually are, and put all kinds of words in my mouth to make your "point," which was almost entirely unrelated to the discussion on the thread.

Enjoy debate w/ your new pal Yurt.
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Go read your posts #18 and #51 .. where your implications are that Bin Laden and terrorism contributed directly to our economic collapse. My response is that is a bullshit notion and contradicts reality .. AND that BOTH democrats and republicans are responsible, not Bin Laden. It dopesn't matter if you said that .. I did .. which you are yet challenge with facts of your own.

Go away and fuck off is all the intellectualism you can muster on this issue .. whereas, I would never tell you to go away or fuck off because I disagree.

I have no problem debating or agreeing with Yurt where warranted, just as I have no problem debating or agreeing with you where warranted.
 
blackascoal said:
Go read your posts #18 and #51 .. where your implications are that Bin Laden and terrorism contributed directly to our economic collapse. My response is that is a bullshit notion and contradicts reality .. AND that BOTH democrats and republicans are responsible, not Bin Laden. It dopesn't matter if you said that .. I did .. which you are yet challenge with facts of your own.

Go away and fuck off is all the intellectualism you can muster on this issue .. whereas, I would never tell you to go away or fuck off because I disagree.

I have no problem debating or agreeing with Yurt where warranted, just as I have no problem debating or agreeing with you where warranted.
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Back that is just what OBL did to Russia in Afganistan, he then turned that same tactic on us. Do you really think we were not lulled into attacking Afganistan?

Then Bush being a complete idiot liar saw it as hiw chance to go into Iraq , he doubled down and Im sure OBL ( if he was still alive at the time) must have laughed hisw ass off.
 
"Go read your posts #18 and #51 .. where your implications are that Bin Laden and terrorism contributed directly to our economic collapse"

That's not at all what you have implied that my argument was. Man, you're just sinking into pathetic, now; all you can do is twist words.

Iraq & our overall response to 9/11 have definitely CONTRIBUTED to the state of our economy. How can anyone argue otherwise? We're talking about trillions of wasted dollars, here.

"Fuck off" works for me. When someone is dishonest and twists what I'm trying to say, then ignores that when he's called on it, they're not worth more of a response than that.
 
evince said:
Bac did you read the original post?

I think you all need to chill out.

The point of this thread was to get some to think about the idiot idea that cowboy diplomacy is the way to go.

When you shoot at the hip and asks the important questions afterwards you fuck yourself.

Its time for people to think deeper about how we do diplomacy because if you dont , you get played time and time again.

Lets never be this stupid again.

Bac you and Onceler have more in common than you have appart. Please dont fall into the trap of helping the right wing corporate whores tear us appart before we can even accomplish anything.
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I don't take any of this personally my sister. I am debating a conclusion that I vehemently disagree with, and although I'm right with you on the failure and fallacy of cowboy diplomacy, I do not agreee that Bin Laden caused the collapse to our economy. That is looking out the window, not in the mirror.

I have said to Onceler several times that I respect his opinions, and as you've said, we agree more than we disagree. However, democrats and even you my sister, refuse to recognize not only the complicity of your own party in this crisis, but also the continued complicity to evil that is being followed by Obama. That needs voice and needs to be spoken to, in my opinion.

Cowboy diplomacy is not the only problem. Complicity to evil and partisanship are also the problem.

The history of how we got into this mess is undeniable and the FRAUD of terrorism is known to all who actually seek truth.

We spend way too much time looking in Snow White's mirror.

Fuck that .. innocent people are being slaughtered.
 
Dont you see we are saying the same thing?

What could Obama do in his first 100 days to make you think we had a chance at getting this right?
 
Onceler said:
"Go read your posts #18 and #51 .. where your implications are that Bin Laden and terrorism contributed directly to our economic collapse"

That's not at all what you have implied that my argument was. Man, you're just sinking into pathetic, now; all you can do is twist words.

Iraq & our overall response to 9/11 have definitely CONTRIBUTED to the state of our economy. How can anyone argue otherwise? We're talking about trillions of wasted dollars, here.

"Fuck off" works for me. When someone is dishonest and twists what I'm trying to say, then ignores that when he's called on it, they're not worth more of a response than that.
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"Fuck off" works for you because you can't challenge what I've said .. as demonstrated by the fact that you haven't.

Iraq and our response have contributed to the state of our economy .. BUT BIN LADEN DID NOT DO THAT, NOR DID HE WASTE BILLIONS OF US DOLLARS.

It's a ridiculous conclusion.

You don't have a clue what Bin Laden's goals are or were. All you know is what you've been told by a government that hides truth and has lied and distorted its way into Iraq.

Do you have any idea how many FAKE BIn Laden tapes and videos have been proven to be FAKE?

Are you under some illusion that our government does not engage in subterfuge .. especially when it comes to war?

It's a ridiculous conclusion.

The argument should have been that war, complicity to war, and the hunt for so-called terrorists have contributed to the collapse of the American economy, and I would have agreed.
 
He played us just like he played the Russians a couple of decades ago.

He saw who was president and new the neocons ideas.

It would not be hard to predict how the neocons would react to such a thing.
 
evince said:
Dont you see we are saying the same thing?

What could Obama do in his first 100 days to make you think we had a chance at getting this right?
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Bin Laden caused the collapse of the American economy and needless war and complicity to needless war caused the collapse of the American economy are not the same things.

What Obama could do is call off the murder of innocent Afghans and Pakistanis who have suffered enough. He could halt the use of American troops as glorified well-armed rent-a-cops for American business.

He could demonstrate to Israel and the whole world that he will not be Israel's bitch and any further atrocities to the Palestinian people will be met with a halt of all US aid to Israel.

He could support a multi-national force in the mideast that will defend Israeli's and Palestinians against any attack on the other .. thus putting the onus to help stop terrorism on the arabs.

But most importantly, he can come to the recognition that if you want to stop terrorism, stop using it.
 
evince said:
He played us just like he played the Russians a couple of decades ago.

He saw who was president and new the neocons ideas.

It would not be hard to predict how the neocons would react to such a thing.
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I have already clearly demonstrated that the idea to bleed Russia and "give them their Vietnam" came from Brezinski and Roberts, not Bin Laden. Bin Laden was a pawn to US Interests and we trained, supplied, and supported him.

The neocons have already told the world in no uncertain terms that oil and pipelines dictated our actions, not Bin Laden.

Skiriting the truth is not the same as the truth.
 
blackascoal said:
I have already clearly demonstrated that the idea to bleed Russia and "give them their Vietnam" came from Brezinski and Roberts, not Bin Laden. Bin Laden was a pawn to US Interests and we trained, supplied, and supported him.

The neocons have already told the world in no uncertain terms that oil and pipelines dictated our actions, not Bin Laden.

Skiriting the truth is not the same as the truth.
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Who did the actual bleeding of Russia? the majahadeen.

Saying he did it to Russia is not saying he thought of the idea, its says he did it.

He saw the success of the idea. I'm sure he saw them and the US as two sides of the same coin. He learned the important lesson for him to learn. He then applied it to us.
 
As I have said since before Bush invaded Iraq. Bush could have not better served OBL's interests if he tried. Yeah I know Iraq is a democracy and Sadam is gone, but wait, Sadam was a negative interest on OBL's followers growth. And now lots of Iraqi have good reason to hate the US that did not before.
 
what is truly silly about this thread is that the thread blames obl solely for bankrupting america and evince, onceler keep repeating this mantra without offering a single example.

The actual crash in America came about because of the wars
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it simplistic to state that the US economy crashed because of the wars. it is a fundementally absurd and naive notion of our complex our economy is.

further, there is confusion about whether obl caused bush to invade iraq. you guys on the hand nearly said yes, then back peddled and said it was better than obl hoped for. you can't have it both ways, either he caused iraq war or not. additinoally, it is not logical to say that obl did NOT cause the war, YET he is responsible for the war bankrupting us. obl was not the main reason we went to war in iraq.

are you two actually claiming that obl is responsible for the iraq war bankrupting us? because that is what the article states, that both wars caused our economic crash (and we know iraq costs the most). what did obl do in iraq that caused it to bankrupt us or did obl in fact cause bush to invade iraq?

what did obl have to do with our housing/credit fiasco? <-- that is the main catalyst for our economic crash, not the wars and not obl. you guys give way to much credit to obl. its like saying obl wants to destroy an jetliner over the atlantic...and because of shotty construction, the airplane explodes over the atlantic killing everyone on board. obl wanted that to happen, didn't cause it to happen, but becuase it did and better than his expectations, then he gets the credit.
 
uscitizen said:
As I have said since before Bush invaded Iraq. Bush could have not better served OBL's interests if he tried. Yeah I know Iraq is a democracy and Sadam is gone, but wait, Sadam was a negative interest on OBL's followers growth. And now lots of Iraqi have good reason to hate the US that did not before.
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maybe it was obl who served bush's interest, without 9/11 people have claimed that bush would never have received the support for war. so again, that proves BAC's point that obl is really a pawn.
 
"what is truly silly about this thread is that the thread blames obl solely for bankrupting america and evince, onceler keep repeating this mantra without offering a single example. "

Boy, would I LOVE to see where I said that OBL is solely responsible for bankrupting America. I would truly love to see that one.
 
this response was to me asking for one example of how obl bankrupted the US:

is there anything you can cite that obl did to bankrupt us?
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Onceler said:
You're kidding, right?

Do you know how much Iraq will cost us when all is said & done?

Use your head.
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Yurt said:
obl caused bush to invade iraq? use your head....
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you never directly answered that last question, you back peddled by saying it exceed his expectation, may not have known what would happen...but you never directly answered the above question. further, you have never once disputed the article in the OP concerning that OBL ALONE bankrupted us. from the get go you have defended generally the article.

the entire thread is based on the one premise:

OBL ALONE CAUSED OUR ECONOMIC COLLAPSE

desh keeps saying i'm stupid for asking questions, you keep saying i'm too stupid to understant your posts....why don't you be more clear and directly answer questions.
 
I was asking if you were kidding because you clearly couldn't make a connection between our response to 9/11 & the cost of that, and our overall economy.

I actually went to a few lengths in later posts to say that it was just one factor, and that OBL is not solely responsible by any means.

Yet, in Yurtle-world, I guess that's "repeating like a mantra."

Man, just when I thought your debating skills couldn't possibly be any weaker...
 
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