How the Ukraine situation should end.

The 80s called and wants it foreign policy back. Remember? Good you are finally admitting how WRONG Obama was though....;)
 
Stone said:
So then you are saying they were actual RUSSIAN troops that the Russian Govt was responsible for,..is THAT what you are saying? :)
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So, you don’t understand what paramilitary means. It’s hard to have a conversation when you don’t understand the basic details.
 
Stone said:
Donbass gets folded back into the Russian Federation. New lines are drawn. Ukraine signs agreement to remain neutral with the promise of never becoming a NATO country but also remaining free and independent of Russian federation. ALL Russian troops withdraw from Ukraine immediately with "token" reparations paid to Ukraine to go towards rebuilding damage from invasion. Balance to be paid by UN, IMF, and Ukraine itself. This is actually what SHOULD have happened before a single shot was fired BTW....
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Why should they ceed Donbass to Russia
 
If justice were a thing in this situation, Ukraine would get all territory back, including the Crimean peninsula.

Then Russia should pay billions in reparations to Ukraine and the USA.
 
Had the US and Europe not supported Ukraine, there is zero chance Russia would have stopped at Ukraine.

Russia is a failed economic State as all Kleptocracies eventually become. The only way for the leader to stay on top is to keep expanding the circle of self interested Oligarchs or keep killing off anyone who can gather any power to him.

To rectify that, they conquer other nations, so they can pilfer the wealth and satisfy the Oligarchs for years to come. But that need to keep conquering never ends as the States are not sustainable without conquest.
 
Stone said:
So it says THE RUSSIAN ARMY or does it say one single Russian private CITIZEN? Yes,...those FACTS sure are pesky arent they. :laugh:
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Putin had Russian soldiers take off their markings and wear masks. I doubt Russian private citizens had attack helicopters.

Does anyone believe these are "private CITIZENS"?

VOA-Crimea-Simferopol-airport.jpg
 
Stone said:
Thats weird. I could have sworn that UKRAINE was shelling the donbass region YEARS before Russia intervened. :rolleyes:
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Brand new to international affairs, eh?

The sovereign state of Ukraine has the right to use force to put down insurrections inside their own borders

Russia put down two insurrections inside the Russian Federation's borders in Chechnya in the 1980s. No one invaded Russia to stop them from putting down an insurrection.
 
Cypress said:
Stone said:
Thats weird. I could have sworn that UKRAINE was shelling the donbass region YEARS before Russia intervened. :rolleyes:
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Brand new to international affairs, eh?

The sovereign state of Ukraine has the right to use force to put down insurrections inside their own borders.
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I can imagine that the British may have said the same thing to the French when those uppity Americans started rebelling and France decided to give the Americans a hand in their rebellion. Had Ukraine not antagonized many of its Russian speaking and even ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, they would have never felt the need to rebel in the first place. Had Ukraine and the west been serious about implementing the Minsk agreements in the 8 years of civil war, that could have also stopped what happened. They didn't do these things and so now they reap what they sow.

Worse, they have now lost even -more- than just the Donbass region. Another consequence of their actions. Russia is continuing to take more ground now as well. Which makes me believe that it's highly likely that the longer Ukraine takes to come to the negotiating table, the less Ukraine will have left of its territory in comparison to what it had before Russia's intervention. And I'm not even getting into all the deaths and injuries on both sides that could have been avoided had the west not discouraged Zelensky from making a deal near the start of Russia's incursion that would have left Ukraine with all the territory it had prior to Russia's military intervention. It was a deal that was arguably even better than what Stone proposed at the start of this thread in an important way, as Donbass wouldn't have even become part of the Russian federation, instead just getting more independence from Ukraine. The thing is, there's plenty of evidence that the Donbass wanted to join Russia long before Russia intervened militarily, so perhaps it was inevitable that they would eventually join Russia. I definitely think a lot of bloodshed could have been avoided though.
 
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Phoenyx said:
I can imagine that the British may have said the same thing to the French when those uppity Americans started rebelling and France decided to give the Americans a hand in their rebellion. Had Ukraine not antagonized many of its Russian speaking and even ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, they would have never felt the need to rebel in the first place. Had Ukraine and the west been serious about implementing the Minsk agreements in the 8 years of civil war, that could have also stopped what happened. They didn't do these things and so now they reap what they sow.

Worse, they have now lost even -more- than just the Donbass region. Another consequence of their actions. Russia is continuing to take more ground now as well. Which makes me believe that it's highly likely that the longer Ukraine takes to come to the negotiating table, the less Ukraine will have left of its territory in comparison to what it had before Russia's intervention. And I'm not even getting into all the deaths and injuries on both sides that could have been avoided had the west not discouraged Zelensky from making a deal near the start of Russia's incursion that would have left Ukraine with all the territory it had prior to Russia's military intervention. It was a deal that was arguably even better than what Stone proposed at the start of this thread in an important way, as Donbass wouldn't have even become part of the Russian federation, instead just getting more independence from Ukraine. The thing is, there's plenty of evidence that the Donbass wanted to join Russia long before Russia intervened militarily, so perhaps it was inevitable that they would eventually join Russia. I definitely think a lot of bloodshed could have been avoided though.
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According to MAGA, Ukraine is the only country on the planet that is not allowed to use force to put down an insurrection within their own borders.
 
Phoenyx said:
I can imagine that the British may have said the same thing to the French when those uppity Americans started rebelling and France decided to give the Americans a hand in their rebellion. Had Ukraine not antagonized many of its Russian speaking and even ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, they would have never felt the need to rebel in the first place. Had Ukraine and the west been serious about implementing the Minsk agreements in the 8 years of civil war, that could have also stopped what happened. They didn't do these things and so now they reap what they sow.

Worse, they have now lost even -more- than just the Donbass region. Another consequence of their actions. Russia is continuing to take more ground now as well. Which makes me believe that it's highly likely that the longer Ukraine takes to come to the negotiating table, the less Ukraine will have left of its territory in comparison to what it had before Russia's intervention. And I'm not even getting into all the deaths and injuries on both sides that could have been avoided had the west not discouraged Zelensky from making a deal near the start of Russia's incursion that would have left Ukraine with all the territory it had prior to Russia's military intervention. It was a deal that was arguably even better than what Stone proposed at the start of this thread in an important way, as Donbass wouldn't have even become part of the Russian federation, instead just getting more independence from Ukraine. The thing is, there's plenty of evidence that the Donbass wanted to join Russia long before Russia intervened militarily, so perhaps it was inevitable that they would eventually join Russia. I definitely think a lot of bloodshed could have been avoided though.
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Your first mistake is thinking Putin is an honorable man who would honor an agreement.
 
Lets be honest here. MANY in left wing politics wanted to continue to use Ukraine as a money laundering operation. They werent going to let go of it either until they absolutely had to. Whats the last thing you do when you have extracted every last dime out of an operation like that? You burn it to the ground, collect some insurance money,....and leave it behind. THAT is Ukraines fate. Scumbag Alinsky learned from the best....;)


EXACTLY like this....
 
Cypress said:
According to MAGA, Ukraine is the only country on the planet that is not allowed to use force to put down an insurrection within their own borders.
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Biden said he would unshakably back Israel and now insist on a cease fire or lose support of the US.
 
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