How's Obamacare working out for ya?

How's Obamacare treating you so far?

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ZappasGuitar said:
"where's the money coming from for free preventative care..."

"where's the money coming from for free preventative care..."

"where's the money coming from for free preventative care..."

"where's the money coming from for free preventative care..."


This little Rightie is like a broken record...all she's got is the same bullshit little chant.

I guess when you ignore facts and actual information and rely on the usual hateful Rightie Blogs, one winds up quoting nonsense like:

"where's the money coming from for free preventative care..."

Poor, poor MintyFresh.
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if you guys had an answer we wouldn't have to keep asking.....
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Sure I do...

The money will come from savings that accrue when people with easily preventable killers like high blood pressure or Diabetes get them diagnosed earlier thanks to free preventative care.
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do you have some numbers to go with that assumption?...seems to me undiagnosed high blood pressure or diabetes patients are more likely to die, not more likely to have higher health care costs.....
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Sure I do...

The money will come from savings that accrue when people with easily preventable killers like high blood pressure or Diabetes get them diagnosed earlier thanks to free preventative care.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute...that wasn't in Minty's blog....was it?

My personal favorite from her offering:

most evidence shows that it increases health spending
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. Most? Can you cite any evidence? Of course you cannot.

There's a link to a CBO report that addresses the main claim...that people who get free shit, will use more free shit. Of course, I love how righties denounce the CBO when the facts don't support bogus right wing talking points.

The report addresses the benefits/costs of preventive care. Now, they include vaccines, and cholesterol medications in those costs. Not everyone is eligible for free vaccines, or meds. So the position is a tad skewed. Likewise...and I love this one...keeping people alive longer due to preventive care, makes for more cost in the long run, because they live longer.


Still, the report concludes:
Of course, just because a preventive service adds to total spending does not meanthat it is a bad investment. Experts have concluded that a large fraction ofpreventive care adds to spending but should be deemed “cost-effective,” meaningthat it provides clinical benefits that justify those added costs: Roughly 60 percent​

of the preventive services examined in the review cited above have additional
costs that many in the health care community consider to be reasonable relative totheir clinical benefits. Still, providing that preventive care would represent a netuse of resources rather than a source of funding for other activities. (About20 percent of the services reviewed have costs that are large relative to their​

benefits, and a small fraction actually impair health while adding to costs.)
Click to expand...


Again...we're talking about medications included. I believe the report addressed federal spending. That must include Medicare/Caid in the findings, so we're already innacurate about costs to private insurance companies.





Minty doesn't read reports. She just speedposts links on 10 or more message boards, and never comes around to address the facts once she's exposed as the idiot that she is.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
do you have some numbers to go with that assumption?...seems to me undiagnosed high blood pressure or diabetes patients are more likely to die, not more likely to have higher health care costs.....
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They're more likely to suffer kidney failure and cost the govt/insurer a ton of money.
 
bachmann-o-kills_n.jpg
 
PostmodernProphet said:
they are also more likely to have a heart attack and die and cost insurer's nothing.....
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More likely? I don't think so. Visit any dialysis center, and ask the patients how their kidneys failed.

Dialysis is extremely expensive.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/worldkidneyday/


[h=1]Diabetes, High Blood Pressure Raise Kidney Disease Risk[/h]





Kidney disease damages your kidneys, preventing them from cleaning your blood as well as they should.
This damage can cause wastes to build up in your body and lead to other health problems, including heart disease, anemia, and bone disease. Chronic kidney disease eventually can cause kidney failure if it is not treated.
If you do have the disease, it's important to be diagnosed early. Treatment can slow down the disease, and prevent or delay kidney failure. Because chronic kidney disease often develops slowly and with few symptoms, many people with the condition don't realize they're sick until the disease is advanced and requires dialysis. Blood and urine tests are the only ways to tell if you have chronic kidney disease.
Tips for Keeping Your Kidneys Healthy

Steps to help keep your kidneys healthy include the following:
  • Keep blood pressure below 130/80 mm/hg
  • Stay in your target cholesterol range
  • Eat less salt and salt substitutes
  • Eat healthy foods
  • Stay physically active
  • Take your medications as prescribed
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Sure I do...

The money will come from savings that accrue when people with easily preventable killers like high blood pressure or Diabetes get them diagnosed earlier thanks to free preventative care.
Click to expand...

Source and proof of your claim? There is no evidence you have been sold a bill of goods.
 
Althea said:
More likely? I don't think so. Visit any dialysis center, and ask the patients how their kidneys failed.

Dialysis is extremely expensive.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/worldkidneyday/


[h=1]Diabetes, High Blood Pressure Raise Kidney Disease Risk[/h]





Kidney disease damages your kidneys, preventing them from cleaning your blood as well as they should.
This damage can cause wastes to build up in your body and lead to other health problems, including heart disease, anemia, and bone disease. Chronic kidney disease eventually can cause kidney failure if it is not treated.
If you do have the disease, it's important to be diagnosed early. Treatment can slow down the disease, and prevent or delay kidney failure. Because chronic kidney disease often develops slowly and with few symptoms, many people with the condition don't realize they're sick until the disease is advanced and requires dialysis. Blood and urine tests are the only ways to tell if you have chronic kidney disease.
Tips for Keeping Your Kidneys Healthy

Steps to help keep your kidneys healthy include the following:
  • Keep blood pressure below 130/80 mm/hg
  • Stay in your target cholesterol range
  • Eat less salt and salt substitutes
  • Eat healthy foods
  • Stay physically active
  • Take your medications as prescribed
Click to expand...

We have know all of this for years. You have no idea what you are talking about. Identifying theses earlier will "not" prevent anything

All of those things you listed are 100% out of the control of e politicians who claim all of these benefits. Of course you could have complete state control because you know the gobblement t is paying for your healthcare so they can tell you what to do..

Which brings me back to my question from a few days ago which is can we ban homosexuality under the auspices of their behavior increasing medical costs? If not why not? homosexuality is more of a predictor of AIDS than obesity is for diabetes.

Please discuss.

Oh and a randomized, placebo controlled clinical trial proving your assertion would be most helpful
 
Althea said:
More likely? I don't think so. Visit any dialysis center, and ask the patients how their kidneys failed.

Dialysis is extremely expensive.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/worldkidneyday/


[h=1]Diabetes, High Blood Pressure Raise Kidney Disease Risk[/h]





Kidney disease damages your kidneys, preventing them from cleaning your blood as well as they should.
This damage can cause wastes to build up in your body and lead to other health problems, including heart disease, anemia, and bone disease. Chronic kidney disease eventually can cause kidney failure if it is not treated.
If you do have the disease, it's important to be diagnosed early. Treatment can slow down the disease, and prevent or delay kidney failure. Because chronic kidney disease often develops slowly and with few symptoms, many people with the condition don't realize they're sick until the disease is advanced and requires dialysis. Blood and urine tests are the only ways to tell if you have chronic kidney disease.
Tips for Keeping Your Kidneys Healthy

Steps to help keep your kidneys healthy include the following:
  • Keep blood pressure below 130/80 mm/hg
  • Stay in your target cholesterol range
  • Eat less salt and salt substitutes
  • Eat healthy foods
  • Stay physically active
  • Take your medications as prescribed
Click to expand...

Diabetes and high blood pressure are two of the easily detected diseases through preventive care. Early diagnosis of disease has the potential to save trillions.

PostmodernProphet said:
sorry, I'm going to stick with my belief that people with undiagnosed high blood pressure are more likely to die of a heart attack......
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See above.

Unfortunately, the insurance companies love denying care for preexisting conditions like diabetes and high blood pressure, which is why literally millions of people die each year from each disease.
 
Howey said:
Diabetes and high blood pressure are two of the easily detected diseases through preventive care. Early diagnosis of disease has the potential to save trillions.
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Which is the topic. Notice how they change the subject when they're losing the debate? Fact....early detection via low cost testing saves insurance companies millions down the road.

Unless, of course, you consider longevity a burden in the long run.



.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sorry, I'm going to stick with my belief that people with undiagnosed high blood pressure are more likely to die of a heart attack......
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You're entitled to your belief. If we accept your argument, then the point becomes early detection of hbp will save money on heart surgery later. Many who have heart attacks do not die.
 
Althea said:
You're entitled to your belief. If we accept your argument, then the point becomes early detection of hbp will save money on heart surgery later. Many who have heart attacks do not die.
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but I expect its still appropriate to deduct the saved health care expenses of those who do.......unless of course you still want to fudge the numbers......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
but I expect its still appropriate to deduct the saved health care expenses of those who do.......unless of course you still want to fudge the numbers......
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To be clear....you think it's more cost effective to do away with low cost screening, in order to keep people from living long enough to become a burden to Medicare?

Now you know why we needed ACA.
 
Althea said:
To be clear....you think it's more cost effective to do away with low cost screening, in order to keep people from living long enough to become a burden to Medicare?

Now you know why we needed ACA.
Click to expand...

sorry, that fish won't fly......merely pointing out that you can't calculate costs saved while ignoring the financial consequences of the alternative.....
 
Althea said:
To be clear....you think it's more cost effective to do away with low cost screening, in order to keep people from living long enough to become a burden to Medicare?

Now you know why we needed ACA.
Click to expand...

That would be the only reason someone would be opposed.

I wonder how many people have opposed low cost screening only to be diagnosed with life threatening disease that could have been prevented if they had been screened?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sorry, that fish won't fly......merely pointing out that you can't calculate costs saved while ignoring the financial consequences of the alternative.....
Click to expand...
The financial alternative of living a long life? I assume you support abortion then? Think of the savings
 
MintJulep said:
What is the money source for 'free' preventative care?

We are just beginning to pay for the disaster called Owebama Care. We will be paying a mint for less and lower quality care all some lazy fucks can sing "thank ye lawd jeebus o'bama, I gots me some free healf care!"

Stupid fuckstick.
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Jesus fuck...what is it with you wingnuts and math? There's this thing called "Insurance premiums". I pay those, my insurance company pays the doctors, I pay no out of pocket to the doctor for preventative care. The insurance company saves money by preventing serious illnesses that cost far, far more than preventative care. I "The Patient" happy, Insurance Company happy, Doctor Happy. Wingnuts who are too stupid to understand math and biology.....they mad cause Rush and Fux News told them to be mad......where do you come up with this free shit? I mean are you guys really this stupid that you don't know how preventative care works?
 
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