I'd settle for Eisenhower Republicans to save our Republic!

[Damocles]

I understand the sentiment, but I don't agree that curbing spending is our number one priority at this time. I keep hearing the mantra from the right how we have to cut spending and we can't raise rich people's taxes during a deep recession. On the spending issue, WHERE were these people during the Bush years? Let me make a prediction; you'll say that YOU were different. The WORST thing this country can do during a deep recession is to cut the lifelines and programs like unemployment, Medicare, Social Security or any other programs that helps We, the People. What we need to do is create jobs, even if it means spending money to create programs like another WPA or CCC. Right now there is only 1 job opening for every 5 unemployed Americans in the private sector.

During the Great Depression, conservatives of that day were critical of New Deal programs that helped Americans. They said the economy would come back in the long run, to which Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins said: "People don't eat in the long run, they eat every day"


Mere parsimony (frugality, stinginess) is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy.
Edmund Burke

None of this means that the stimulus was the right bill. I said consistently during that period that we needed to create jobs, not target tax credits and grants towards specific pet projects, that we needed to change those tax cuts to incentive to hire for companies...

It is foolish to say we grow the economy through growing government, either through entitlements or through government jobs, we don't have a government based economy it will never work to stimulate government to "grow" the economy and the idea that targeted grants would "trickle out" to the rest of the economy. Please. If you don't believe in "trickle down" this "trickle out" mentality has got to have you scratching your head.

IMO they attempted to target "growth" spurts for election years, they had bad aim and tried to only grow pet projects, and it has bitten them in the butt. Now suddenly the promised shovel ready jobs are important.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I understand the sentiment, but I don't agree that curbing spending is our number one priority at this time.

Really? In your profound wisdom, when do you think it might be a good time to curb spending? Just the interest on our debt, is expected to be over $900 billion by 2019, which is more than we currently spend on national defense, and most of this will go to foreign countries. At some point, our debt becomes unserviceable, and we all become "serfs" ....go look it up!

I keep hearing the mantra from the right how we have to cut spending and we can't raise rich people's taxes during a deep recession. On the spending issue, WHERE were these people during the Bush years? Let me make a prediction; you'll say that YOU were different.

All you need to do is search the database here for "Bush Spending" and "Dixie" and you'll find NUMEROUS threads where I lambasted Bush for his excessive spending. Why do you people want to pretend that conservatives never mentioned this? Were you too wrapped up in Iraq and Cheney conspiracy theories at the time to read our complaints? Because I am certain they were made, that was the primary reason Bush's approval numbers tanked and Republicans lost control of both houses of Congress.

The WORST thing this country can do during a deep recession is to cut the lifelines and programs like unemployment, Medicare, Social Security or any other programs that helps We, the People.

The worst thing we can do is to continue to ignore the debt and spend money like there is no tomorrow. Obama has already outspent all previous presidents combined. That is pretty fucking stunning when you think about it... Not, outspent Bush... Not, outspent Roosevelt... he has spent more money than ALL the previous presidents before him combined! It can't continue, it is devaluing the dollar at a rapid rate, and will ultimately lead to massive inflation.

What we need to do is create jobs, even if it means spending money to create programs like another WPA or CCC. Right now there is only 1 job opening for every 5 unemployed Americans in the private sector.

How does a government WPA program create "private sector" jobs? And isn't that what the $800 billion stimulus package was supposed to be for? You know... those "shovel ready jobs" that never materialized because they don't exist? If you want to create jobs, you have to offer some kind of incentives to the people who create the private sector jobs, that's those "rich people" who you insist on sticking it to with new taxes and regulatory fees. We have to repeal this Obamacare mess you stuck us with, because that is one of the key reasons private sector companies are not adding new jobs.

During the Great Depression, conservatives of that day were critical of New Deal programs that helped Americans. They said the economy would come back in the long run, to which Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins said: "People don't eat in the long run, they eat every day"

The New Deal programs actually extended the depression another 7 years, according to a study done by the University of California. It was actually WWII that ended the Great Depression, which may have only been The Little Depression, had we not been saddled with FDR's massive government spending programs.

 

[WinterBorn]

As much as I hate to admit it, the stimulus money is helping some private sectors. I work in the Telecomm/Utility construction industry, and we are finally seeing some massive projects funded by the stimulus. The company I work for has been gotten 3 jobs in excess of $200 million in the last few months (and several smaller projects), and those are just the ones we won the bids on.

The downside is that some projects that would have helped us during '09 and '10 were delayed while the companies, cities, and states awaited the stimulus money.

 

[Bfgrn]

All you need to do is search the database here for "Bush Spending" and "Dixie" and you'll find NUMEROUS threads where I lambasted Bush for his excessive spending. Why do you people want to pretend that conservatives never mentioned this? Were you too wrapped up in Iraq and Cheney conspiracy theories at the time to read our complaints? Because I am certain they were made, that was the primary reason Bush's approval numbers tanked and Republicans lost control of both houses of Congress.

Dixie, my dad told me two things about trust; give people the benefit of the doubt and the truth will reveal itself. But someone who lies to you will steal from you, because a liar and a thief are one in the same.

I did as you asked. Dixie, you are a liar.

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=159&postcount=5

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=25351&postcount=63

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=306236&postcount=170

This is the real gem...

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=298653&postcount=86

Posted by Dixie:

I LOVE GEORGE W. BUSH!!!!!!!



And I don't give a shit what YOU think about it!

I love the way he talks, I love his honesty and integrity... I love the plain-spoken demeanor, and the confident swaggar. I love like hell, the way he always makes the democrats eat dirt, and look like the jackasses they are!

I love to see him working on his ranch like Reagan did, I love to see him do an interview in blue jeans, I even love when he managels his salybals. I love his chuckle, and his wit. I love his jokes, I love to just listen to him talk about his ideas.

I love his wife, I love his accent, I love her accent... I love the way they look at each other like two people genuinely in love! I love the comfort of knowing Dubya ain't cheating on her and getting blowjobs on the side, and I love the lack of rumors that she is a lesbian. I love not having 'bimbo alerts' and an endless stream of women accusing him of sexual misconduct. I love not having to hear about cigars, cloakroom sex, and splooge on blue dresses.

I love the fact that when George W. Bush says he is going to do something, that is damn well what he does, and will not back down. I love the fact that he has a strong moral constitution and does what he thinks is right regardless of the polls. I love that he doesn't mince words or hide behind focus grouped phrases. I love the way he isn't afraid to tell France to fuck off, and will lead regardless of who in the UN wants to follow.

Did I mention I love the way he continually makes fools of the Democrats who underestimate him? I really LOVE that!

I LOVE GEORGE W. BUSH!

THERE!

 

[Bfgrn]

As much as I hate to admit it, the stimulus money is helping some private sectors. I work in the Telecomm/Utility construction industry, and we are finally seeing some massive projects funded by the stimulus. The company I work for has been gotten 3 jobs in excess of $200 million in the last few months (and several smaller projects), and those are just the ones we won the bids on.

The downside is that some projects that would have helped us during '09 and '10 were delayed while the companies, cities, and states awaited the stimulus money.

Even without a stimulus bill, the federal government annually appropriates funds for infrastructure projects. The states are usually required to provide matching funds.

This whole flap over 'shovel ready' is convoluted. There are so many steps that must occur by government and contractors before any 'shovel' ever touches the ground. Plans have to be drawn up by state engineers and draftsmen, contractors have be given copies of those plans to estimate their bid, or decide not to bid. Often times impact studies need to be done. Other projects that are underway must be taken into account so there is not traffic gridlocks or unreasonable delays to commerce. There is a bidding process where a reasonable time frame is given to bidders before an opening so contractors can formulate their bids. Contractors must get prices from material suppliers, sub contractors and secure required bonds. Sometimes a contractor will find an error or ask for a clarification of a spec. Sometimes there are changes to the specs. Then when a project is bid, awarded and scheduled, alternate traffic routes or lanes need to be prepared and marked. Only so many projects can run concurrently because of traffic impacts, environmental impacts, impacts on affected businesses, number of qualified bidders...etc...etc...etc.

 

[WinterBorn]

Even without a stimulus bill, the federal government annually appropriates funds for infrastructure projects. The states are usually required to provide matching funds.

This whole flap over 'shovel ready' is convoluted. There are so many steps that must occur by government and contractors before any 'shovel' ever touches the ground. Plans have to be drawn up by state engineers and draftsmen, contractors have be given copies of those plans to estimate their bid, or decide not to bid. Often times impact studies need to be done. Other projects that are underway must be taken into account so there is not traffic gridlocks or unreasonable delays to commerce. There is a bidding process where a reasonable time frame is given to bidders before an opening so contractors can formulate their bids. Contractors must get prices from material suppliers, sub contractors and secure required bonds. Sometimes a contractor will find an error or ask for a clarification of a spec. Sometimes there are changes to the specs. Then when a project is bid, awarded and scheduled, alternate traffic routes or lanes need to be prepared and marked. Only so many projects can run concurrently because of traffic impacts, environmental impacts, impacts on affected businesses, number of qualified bidders...etc...etc...etc.

Only some of those issues are problems in the utility construction industry. Many of the projects were shovel ready when they were put on hold to await stimulus money.

I can't speak for other companies, but we maintain material prices, subcontractor contact lists and licences for various areas, and getting a bond is usually not much of a delay. Traffic plans, or MOTs, are the responsibility of our company. And while they must utitilize DOT approved methods and materials, they do not delay a job starting. In fact, unless it involves extended work on an interstate, it isn't even considered until the work starts.

 

[Damocles]

As much as I hate to admit it, the stimulus money is helping some private sectors. I work in the Telecomm/Utility construction industry, and we are finally seeing some massive projects funded by the stimulus. The company I work for has been gotten 3 jobs in excess of $200 million in the last few months (and several smaller projects), and those are just the ones we won the bids on.

The downside is that some projects that would have helped us during '09 and '10 were delayed while the companies, cities, and states awaited the stimulus money.

Yup, that was a portion of the "just before election" money I spoke of earlier.

IMHO: The "Stimulus" had two-fold purpose, but it was poorly crafted even for those purposes as it didn't recognize the blinding glacial speed of most bureaucracies, first it aimed to create a "new economy" by targeting grants towards a specific industry and research, second it tried to time "stimulus" to show improvements just at election times. The only thing it did right was pork, things like the mouse city and other expenditures like that...

 

[evince]

Eisenhower is one of my heroes.

Glad to know that.

If the republicans ran someone like him once in awhile I might vote republican from time to time.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie, my dad told me two things about trust; give people the benefit of the doubt and the truth will reveal itself. But someone who lies to you will steal from you, because a liar and a thief are one in the same.

Bfoon, every link you posted has me clearly stating that I did not approve of Bush's spending! You found not one single example of me condoning it. I was a very outspoken critic of Bush spending, and I wasn't bashful about articulating it. I gave you the opportunity to prove that, and you failed. So I guess your Dad would say you are a thief as well as a liar, huh?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

This whole flap over 'shovel ready' is convoluted. There are so many steps that must occur by government and contractors before any 'shovel' ever touches the ground. Plans have to be drawn up by state engineers and draftsmen, contractors have be given copies of those plans to estimate their bid, or decide not to bid. Often times impact studies need to be done. Other projects that are underway must be taken into account so there is not traffic gridlocks or unreasonable delays to commerce. There is a bidding process where a reasonable time frame is given to bidders before an opening so contractors can formulate their bids. Contractors must get prices from material suppliers, sub contractors and secure required bonds. Sometimes a contractor will find an error or ask for a clarification of a spec. Sometimes there are changes to the specs. Then when a project is bid, awarded and scheduled, alternate traffic routes or lanes need to be prepared and marked. Only so many projects can run concurrently because of traffic impacts, environmental impacts, impacts on affected businesses, number of qualified bidders...etc...etc...etc.

It was OBAMA and you ass lickers of Obama, who paraded around here with this "shovel ready" nonsense incessantly for weeks, while Congress deliberated the stimulus! Now you suddenly want to pontificate on the idiocy of believing there could have ever been a "shovel ready" project! AMAZING!

What is next from you lying asswipes? Are we going to be lectured in a few years about the sheer idiocy of believing we could spend our way out of recession? How it was a really stupid idea to think we could cover 40 million Americans health care and also reduce costs? You're already trying to blame the Frank/Dodd reforms in low interest mortgage loans on Republicans...You people really take the cake! You spout absolute fucking idiocy until it becomes reality, then you run the fuck in the opposite direction and blame the opposition for it!

 

[Bfgrn]

Bfoon, every link you posted has me clearly stating that I did not approve of Bush's spending! You found not one single example of me condoning it. I was a very outspoken critic of Bush spending, and I wasn't bashful about articulating it. I gave you the opportunity to prove that, and you failed. So I guess your Dad would say you are a thief as well as a liar, huh?

In every link your apologizing for your man crush Bush would make Monica Lewinsky blush. You are outspoken about the spending poor Bush was forced to do because the mean liberals made him do it...

BECAUSE................................

Posted by Dixie:

I LOVE GEORGE W. BUSH!!!!!!!



And I don't give a shit what YOU think about it!

I love the way he talks, I love his honesty and integrity... I love the plain-spoken demeanor, and the confident swaggar. I love like hell, the way he always makes the democrats eat dirt, and look like the jackasses they are!

I love to see him working on his ranch like Reagan did, I love to see him do an interview in blue jeans, I even love when he managels his salybals. I love his chuckle, and his wit. I love his jokes, I love to just listen to him talk about his ideas.

I love his wife, I love his accent, I love her accent... I love the way they look at each other like two people genuinely in love! I love the comfort of knowing Dubya ain't cheating on her and getting blowjobs on the side, and I love the lack of rumors that she is a lesbian. I love not having 'bimbo alerts' and an endless stream of women accusing him of sexual misconduct. I love not having to hear about cigars, cloakroom sex, and splooge on blue dresses.

I love the fact that when George W. Bush says he is going to do something, that is damn well what he does, and will not back down. I love the fact that he has a strong moral constitution and does what he thinks is right regardless of the polls. I love that he doesn't mince words or hide behind focus grouped phrases. I love the way he isn't afraid to tell France to fuck off, and will lead regardless of who in the UN wants to follow.

Did I mention I love the way he continually makes fools of the Democrats who underestimate him? I really LOVE that!

I LOVE GEORGE W. BUSH!

THERE!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

No, I am sorry you dishonest fuckwit, there is no "apology" in any of those links for Bush spending. I did explain why the spending occurred, I did not say I condoned it or approved of it. You have not made your case. And if you want to keep reposting my thread about "loving Bush" that's fine, it doesn't say I condoned his spending, does it? You see, I can love all kinds of things about Bush, and still not approve or condone his spending. I actually love a lot of things about Obama as well, he is an attractive well-spoken black man who has obtained the highest office of power in the world, in a nation which just over a century ago, thought of black people as "property" and I think that is remarkable. I disagree vehemently with his policies and politics, but I really do like the man himself. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Bfgrn]

No, I am sorry you dishonest fuckwit, there is no "apology" in any of those links for Bush spending. I did explain why the spending occurred, I did not say I condoned it or approved of it. You have not made your case. And if you want to keep reposting my thread about "loving Bush" that's fine, it doesn't say I condoned his spending, does it? You see, I can love all kinds of things about Bush, and still not approve or condone his spending. I actually love a lot of things about Obama as well, he is an attractive well-spoken black man who has obtained the highest office of power in the world, in a nation which just over a century ago, thought of black people as "property" and I think that is remarkable. I disagree vehemently with his policies and politics, but I really do like the man himself. One has nothing to do with the other.

However, we know from the tried and true Reagan model, the debt can be reduced quickly, through balancing the budget, and growing the economy... well, the economy is growing, and if it weren't for two wars and Bush trying to appease liberals, the budget would be balanced.

Case CLOSED.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Case CLOSED.

Right, CASE CLOSED... Dixie never said that he approved of or condoned Bush appeasing liberals and spending us into further debt! Thanks for providing evidence that you are a lying piece of shit who is incapable of admitting the truth. I appreciate that!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

"President Eisenhower describes his administration's political philosophy as 'dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive, dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive moderation,' then as 'moderate progressivism,' and then as 'positive progressivism.'" William Manchester in "The Glory and the Dream"


The republican party of Eisenhower, Rockefeller, and other more liberal politicians no longer exists. Consider only Dixie's reply as proof thought has no place in the republican party today, corporate propaganda now labels any opposition to their power Marxist, socialist or some other slogan. That propaganda is so deeply embedded in the minds of the right wing nothing else can fit there.

Why do you think I'm no longer a Republican?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Eisenhower is one of my heroes.

Mine too.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Keep spewing your right wing dogma Dix, maybe the authoritarians that took over the GOP will repent.

Today's Democrats are to the right of Democrats in Ike's day, with the exception of the Dixiecrats, who are now Republicans.


"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater

Most Democrats today are to the LEFT of the Dems of Ike's era. The Reps are to the RIGHT of the Reps of Ike's era. THAT is the problem. Both parties have shifted further from center.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Nope. Not a lot of Eisenhower Republicans these days, of course, we weren't $13 trillion in debt in 1950 either, that might have a little to do with it. As I said, it's really sad that you are just now coming to the realization you like Ike, and wish you could vote for one, it's too late though, all you have on your side are Marxist Socialists, and they are going to lose really badly. Maybe in 2012, you can nominate some Eisenhower types to run, instead of the current crop of Communists? I would support you in that endeavor!

Dixie. You're such a blind partisan hack that you exacperate people. Yea...were ficking $13 trillion in debt. The over freaken whelming majority of it has been due to irresponsible Republican tax cuts and run away military spending. It most certainly hasn't been because of your bogeyman socialist line of bull shit.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Eisenhower was the last President who actually paid off some of our debt, he understood that spending drove taxation, he even warned about what he called the Military Industrial Complex and how that alone could drive us to a spending spree we might never escape from...

I guarantee if he were alive today he'd support a balanced budget amendment...

I'm not so sure about that. Let me ask you this. Do you think we could have won WWII with a balanced budget ammendment? I don't think we could have and I'm pretty sure that as a percentage of GDP we ran the highest deficits in your nations history during WWII. Now considering Ike was the Allied Supreme Commander during WWII why would he tie his own hands like that?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I'd settle for conservatives of both parties working together to curb out of control spending.

I would to but that's the problem. Tea Baggers are a perfect example. You cannot have an intelligent conversation with them about the subject. It's like balancing our budget and putting our financed together will happen joyfully, painlessly, with not effort and no pain or sacrifice. There nuts! We have to make some damned painfull decisions and those decisions may include dramatically reducing the size of our military, reducing entitlement benefits and raising taxes to pay for both. How can you have a meaningful dialogue with people who talk the talk but adamantly refuse to walk the walk?