I'd settle for Eisenhower Republicans to save our Republic!

I'm not so sure about that. Let me ask you this. Do you think we could have won WWII with a balanced budget ammendment? I don't think we could have and I'm pretty sure that as a percentage of GDP we ran the highest deficits in your nations history during WWII. Now considering Ike was the Allied Supreme Commander during WWII why would he tie his own hands like that?

There is NO reason not to have a balanced budget and to force the two parties to stick to it. you want confidence back? DO THAT. Reduce the debt year over year... just ONCE...

Ike would very likely support not only the balanced budget, but he would come in and wreck the military industrial complex he warned us about. We vastly overspend for the sake of maintaining the status quo.... 'we can't cut defense... it will cost jobs' 'we can't cut education, it will cost jobs' 'we can't simplify the tax code... it will cost jobs'

Just because there aren't any Reps or Dems today that will do what is necessary doesn't mean the old guard wouldn't get it done.

Read the OP.... Ike stood for a socially moderate to liberal position for the feds, he stood for a fiscally conservative position (something NEITHER party today understands), he stood for a lower tax structure, he stood for keeping the GOVERNMENT out of union/corporation decisions (now we can't get the idiots in DC out of the process)
 
As much as I hate to admit it, the stimulus money is helping some private sectors. I work in the Telecomm/Utility construction industry, and we are finally seeing some massive projects funded by the stimulus. The company I work for has been gotten 3 jobs in excess of $200 million in the last few months (and several smaller projects), and those are just the ones we won the bids on.

The downside is that some projects that would have helped us during '09 and '10 were delayed while the companies, cities, and states awaited the stimulus money.
Hey I saw evidence of the stimulus money at work. I drove from Van Wert, OH to East Chicago, IN and didn't hit a single pot hole on an Indiana road. That's never happened in my life time. Any one who knows Indiana would understand that's damned near miraculous!
 
Most Democrats today are to the LEFT of the Dems of Ike's era. The Reps are to the RIGHT of the Reps of Ike's era. THAT is the problem. Both parties have shifted further from center.
That's just simply not true and you're claim is easily refuted. Dems of the 1950's were much farther to the left then today. Hell, back then it was good to be a liberal.
 
There is NO reason not to have a balanced budget and to force the two parties to stick to it. you want confidence back? DO THAT. Reduce the debt year over year... just ONCE...

Ike would very likely support not only the balanced budget, but he would come in and wreck the military industrial complex he warned us about. We vastly overspend for the sake of maintaining the status quo.... 'we can't cut defense... it will cost jobs' 'we can't cut education, it will cost jobs' 'we can't simplify the tax code... it will cost jobs'

Just because there aren't any Reps or Dems today that will do what is necessary doesn't mean the old guard wouldn't get it done.

Read the OP.... Ike stood for a socially moderate to liberal position for the feds, he stood for a fiscally conservative position (something NEITHER party today understands), he stood for a lower tax structure, he stood for keeping the GOVERNMENT out of union/corporation decisions (now we can't get the idiots in DC out of the process)
In general principle I agree with you. But what about exraordinary circumstances like the Great Depression or the Civil War or WWII where we ran tremendous deficits. Would not a balanced budget ammendment be a handicap in times of crisis?
 
Dixie. You're such a blind partisan hack that you exacperate people. Yea...were ficking $13 trillion in debt. The over freaken whelming majority of it has been due to irresponsible Republican tax cuts and run away military spending. It most certainly hasn't been because of your bogeyman socialist line of bull shit.

No, the over freakin whelming majority of it is from Democrats and Obama who have, in two short years, outspent every other administration combined, wars or not. There is no "runaway military spending" the military budget has not been dramatically increased under Obama, and it wasn't dramatically increased under Bush. You just have a hard on for cutting military spending because you're a Communist Pinko Liberal who wants to neuter the United States, so some Communist thug dictatorship can kick our ass and take over!
 
Why do you think I'm no longer a Republican?

So black swans do exist! Exceptions of course do not change the republican party from what it has become.

Having read a bit about Eisenhower recently I was impressed on how he didn't allow the right wing militant crazies to influence his decisions. I guess a general knows what war is like. His supreme court choices laid the groundwork for much progressive policy, even though he was a little weak in racial issues. I have a signed note from him as well.
 
How to handle a recession....

Thereafter, if recessionary trends appear, we will act promptly with counter-measures, such as public works or temporary tax cuts. We will not stand idly by and permit recessions to run their course as the Republican Administration has done.


Building the military industrial complex that Ike warned about....

This is the strength that must be erected:

1. Deterrent military power such that the Soviet and Chinese leaders will have no doubt that an attack on the United States would surely be followed by their own destruction.

2. Balanced conventional military forces which will permit a response graded to the intensity of any threats of aggressive force.

3. Continuous modernization of these forces through intensified research and development, including essential programs now slowed down, terminated, suspended, or neglected for lack of budgetary support.

World Trade:

World trade is more than ever essential to world peace. In the tradition of Cordell Hull, we shall expand world trade in every responsible way.

Since all Americans share the benefits of this policy, its costs should not be the burden of a few. We shall support practical measures to case the necessary adjustments of industries and communities which may be unavoidably hurt by increases in imports.

World trade raises living standards, widens markets, reduces costs, increases profits, and builds political stability and international economic cooperation.

Loose money.... AND control inflation....

An End to Tight Money

As the first step in speeding economic growth, a Democratic president will put an end to the present high-interest, tight-money policy.

Control of Inflation

The American consumer has a right to fair prices. We are determined to secure that right.

Inflation has its roots in a variety of causes; its cure lies in a variety of remedies. Among those remedies are monetary and credit policies properly applied, budget surpluses in times of full employment, and action to restrain "administered price" increases in industries where economic power rests in the hands of a few.

Far far more at the link in previous post... I just found the above to be very 'liberal' positions. ;)

Side note.... it is rather refreshing to see how open the parties were with their platforms. Spelling out what they intended to do in detail that we haven't seen in my life time. It has dwindled in every cycle since in my opinion.
 
In general principle I agree with you. But what about exraordinary circumstances like the Great Depression or the Civil War or WWII where we ran tremendous deficits. Would not a balanced budget ammendment be a handicap in times of crisis?

There are certainly times when deficit spending is necessary. But we cannot continue the path of deficits every single year regardless of economic prosperity or lack thereof.

1960.... the last fiscal year our debt was lowered year over year.
 
You just have a hard on for cutting military spending because you're a Communist Pinko Liberal who wants to neuter the United States, so some Communist thug dictatorship can kick our ass and take over!

This is the "great fear" isn't it?

Can you actually imagine someone taking us over? Who would want to even try. I love this country, but we are a bunch of spoiled, whining, individualists who would be a monster pain in the ass to try and run.

No one is going to take us over. If we fold its because of what WE do.

And despite your sensationalistic fear mongering, we could protect ourselves with half of the military we now have.
 
This is the "great fear" isn't it?

Can you actually imagine someone taking us over? Who would want to even try. I love this country, but we are a bunch of spoiled, whining, individualists who would be a monster pain in the ass to try and run.

No one is going to take us over. If we fold its because of what WE do.

And despite your sensationalistic fear mongering, we could protect ourselves with half of the military we now have.

The thought of anyone taking over the US given the technology we possess today is laughable.

It would be no more likely than anyone invading China and taking it over. Not gunna happen... wouldn't be prudent....
 
This is the "great fear" isn't it?

Can you actually imagine someone taking us over? Who would want to even try. I love this country, but we are a bunch of spoiled, whining, individualists who would be a monster pain in the ass to try and run.

No one is going to take us over. If we fold its because of what WE do.

And despite your sensationalistic fear mongering, we could protect ourselves with half of the military we now have.

I guarantee you, when the Supreme Ruler starts lobbing off heads of dissidents, the whining tunes would change quickly. It wouldn't take more than a few million to die in genocide for the rest to fall in line, and they would become slaves to the state. No more freedom, no more constitution, no more whining about your rights... and the sad thing will be, no one to come rescue us from it.

You illustrate beautifully what the problem is with liberal pinheads... you really and truly do not believe this is possible! In your little bubble world, this would just not ever happen, no matter what! That's precisely why you are so bold when it comes to gutting the military and not getting involved in world affairs. You really think, because you've been fortunate enough to live your entire life in a country like this, that everything we have is always going to be as it has been, and nothing could ever change that. It's scary to think naive little fucktards like you, are now in charge of our future. REALLY!
 
I guarantee you, when the Supreme Ruler starts lobbing off heads of dissidents, the whining tunes would change quickly. It wouldn't take more than a few million to die in genocide for the rest to fall in line, and they would become slaves to the state. No more freedom, no more constitution, no more whining about your rights... and the sad thing will be, no one to come rescue us from it.

You illustrate beautifully what the problem is with liberal pinheads... you really and truly do not believe this is possible! In your little bubble world, this would just not ever happen, no matter what! That's precisely why you are so bold when it comes to gutting the military and not getting involved in world affairs. You really think, because you've been fortunate enough to live your entire life in a country like this, that everything we have is always going to be as it has been, and nothing could ever change that. It's scary to think naive little fucktards like you, are now in charge of our future. REALLY!

Dixie, I understand you feel obligated to repeat neocon buzzwords and catch phrases, but this is just bullshit.

Fall in line? We can't get the population to fall in line when we pay them and let them pick their own leaders. You tell me someone is going to come in and take over? Thats crap.

Who would you suppose would do that? Russia? Cuba? Who has a military that can conquer us?





And just to make sure we all understand, when someone mentions cutting the military budget, they did not say remove the military completely. Your over the top, sensationalistic, fear-mongering nonsense doesn't pass a common sense test.
 
Dixie, I understand you feel obligated to repeat neocon buzzwords and catch phrases, but this is just bullshit.

Fall in line? We can't get the population to fall in line when we pay them and let them pick their own leaders. You tell me someone is going to come in and take over? Thats crap.

Who would you suppose would do that? Russia? Cuba? Who has a military that can conquer us?

And just to make sure we all understand, when someone mentions cutting the military budget, they did not say remove the military completely. Your over the top, sensationalistic, fear-mongering nonsense doesn't pass a common sense test.

Well, if we defund our military and pear it down the way you and Mottbrain want to do, then China could probably do it... or a coalition of wealthy Arab/Islamic nations we've allowed to get nukes... but hey, you don't believe it could happen, so it won't, right? Why not just disband our military altogether and be done with it? No need to spend any money on that sort of thing, because no one would want to come rule over our whiny asses anyway, right?

You are beyond being a typical moron... is there a such thing as Uber-moron? If so, that's YOU!
 
Well, if we defund our military and pear it down the way you and Mottbrain want to do, then China could probably do it... or a coalition of wealthy Arab/Islamic nations we've allowed to get nukes... but hey, you don't believe it could happen, so it won't, right? Why not just disband our military altogether and be done with it? No need to spend any money on that sort of thing, because no one would want to come rule over our whiny asses anyway, right?

You are beyond being a typical moron... is there a such thing as Uber-moron? If so, that's YOU!

Is this the only way you can argue a subject? Someone mentions cutting the military's budget, and launch into some tirade about how we will be conquered by invading hordes? Get a grip Dixie. No one is talking about removing the military.

Remember when we invaded Iraq? The news media was full of the fact that Iraq had the 5th largest standing army in teh world. They were all well-trained and equiped.

I think some of them held out for almost an hour before they surrendered.


We spent $663 Billion on the military this year. You don't think we could spend $563 Billion without having to surrender to the first invader that knocked on our door?? That $100 Billion we save could knock down some debt. There are a dozen departments that don't see a quarter of that, and we could actually keep those around. Dropping the military's budget by 15% still leaves it with a huge budget.
 
Is this the only way you can argue a subject? Someone mentions cutting the military's budget, and launch into some tirade about how we will be conquered by invading hordes? Get a grip Dixie. No one is talking about removing the military.

Remember when we invaded Iraq? The news media was full of the fact that Iraq had the 5th largest standing army in teh world. They were all well-trained and equiped.

I think some of them held out for almost an hour before they surrendered.


We spent $663 Billion on the military this year. You don't think we could spend $563 Billion without having to surrender to the first invader that knocked on our door?? That $100 Billion we save could knock down some debt. There are a dozen departments that don't see a quarter of that, and we could actually keep those around. Dropping the military's budget by 15% still leaves it with a huge budget.

If we could eliminate the national debt, we could save about $600 billion in interest payments, that would cover our military.
 
Well, if we defund our military and pear it down the way you and Mottbrain want to do, then China could probably do it... or a coalition of wealthy Arab/Islamic nations we've allowed to get nukes...


Ok, I wanted to come back and talk about this.


So exactly how did Mott and I talk about pearing down the military? When you posted this, neither of us had said much besides saying we could cut some from the military's budget. So exactly where did you get the "... if we defund our military and pear it down the way you and Mottbrain want to do..."?

And we allowed someone to get nukes? Did they ask us and we said, "Well sure, you can have nukes".
 
If we could eliminate the national debt, we could save about $600 billion in interest payments, that would cover our military.

Nice idea Dixie. Perhaps you can explain how we come up with $10 trillion??

Your sarcasm is fine. I can do it too. But its not much of a debate technique.
 
Look WB, I don't really have time to educate you completely on world history. You are a product of the public education system in America, and a prime example of why we need to do away with it altogether and start actually educating people again. You see, way back, we had a couple of world wars, and through those experiences, previous generations learned a very valuable lesson about military might and the importance of maintaining it. Whenever we withdrew into our own little isolated world and ignored the rest of the planet, totalitarian dictators established military states and roamed the eastern hemisphere with impunity, eventually enslaving much of the territory, and then threatening our own hemisphere. After countless thousands gave their lives to win WWII, we realized the best way to avoid something like that ever happening again, was to build the biggest baddest army with the biggest and baddest toys, and through our sheer military strength and presence, we could maintain some semblance of civility around the globe, and ultimately here at home.

Now, what has happened over the years, is nitwits like you and Mott have emerged, not learned anything from history, and you gobbled up all the Communist/Marxist/Socialist propaganda you could along the way. People much smarter than you, have filled your naive little heads full of ideas, that we don't really need all this bad ass military... why? Because our military keeps the totalitarian tyrants from running roughshod all over the Eastern hemisphere, like in WWI and WWII! They know that unless they can somehow diminish our military might, they can't ever do as they please, we won't allow it. So they convince you little fuckwits that we need to tone down our military a bit, there is no harm in that, it won't hurt us a bit to do it, nothing bad can happen, it's not possible. Once that happens, next thing you know, they are taking over countries and building unconquerable military forces, and we are powerless to stop them. And let's be clear, if they ever do manage to get the upper hand like that again, they will crush us without a second thought. You and I will probably be dead, but our children and grandchildren will live in a post-apocalyptic world like Mad Max or something, if they are lucky enough to survive the onslaught.

But in your little pea brain, this is all a bunch of bullshit that just can't ever happen! It's funny, that's what people thought before WWI and before WWII as well. Like I said, we supposedly learned a lesson, but we have now forgotten it completely.
 
Look WB, I don't really have time to educate you completely on world history. You are a product of the public education system in America, and a prime example of why we need to do away with it altogether and start actually educating people again. You see, way back, we had a couple of world wars, and through those experiences, previous generations learned a very valuable lesson about military might and the importance of maintaining it. Whenever we withdrew into our own little isolated world and ignored the rest of the planet, totalitarian dictators established military states and roamed the eastern hemisphere with impunity, eventually enslaving much of the territory, and then threatening our own hemisphere. After countless thousands gave their lives to win WWII, we realized the best way to avoid something like that ever happening again, was to build the biggest baddest army with the biggest and baddest toys, and through our sheer military strength and presence, we could maintain some semblance of civility around the globe, and ultimately here at home.

Now, what has happened over the years, is nitwits like you and Mott have emerged, not learned anything from history, and you gobbled up all the Communist/Marxist/Socialist propaganda you could along the way. People much smarter than you, have filled your naive little heads full of ideas, that we don't really need all this bad ass military... why? Because our military keeps the totalitarian tyrants from running roughshod all over the Eastern hemisphere, like in WWI and WWII! They know that unless they can somehow diminish our military might, they can't ever do as they please, we won't allow it. So they convince you little fuckwits that we need to tone down our military a bit, there is no harm in that, it won't hurt us a bit to do it, nothing bad can happen, it's not possible. Once that happens, next thing you know, they are taking over countries and building unconquerable military forces, and we are powerless to stop them. And let's be clear, if they ever do manage to get the upper hand like that again, they will crush us without a second thought. You and I will probably be dead, but our children and grandchildren will live in a post-apocalyptic world like Mad Max or something, if they are lucky enough to survive the onslaught.

But in your little pea brain, this is all a bunch of bullshit that just can't ever happen! It's funny, that's what people thought before WWI and before WWII as well. Like I said, we supposedly learned a lesson, but we have now forgotten it completely.

Stick with sarcasm. Being a condescending prick isn't your strong suit.

I have been educated in both public and private schools. I have been a voracious reader since I was a child.The fact that I don't see things your way is not an automatic indictment as an idiot. It makes you feel superior to think so. But it is quite obviously not the truth.

The dramatic images make your story more entertaining. The whole " but our children and grandchildren will live in a post-apocalyptic world like Mad Max or something, if they are lucky enough to survive the onslaught" is very colorful.

But the biggest number that has been suggested in this conversation is a 15% reduction. That would hardly put us at the mercy of some anti-american coalition. In fact, I would be willing to bet that more than 15% of teh military's budget is wasted.

What you propose is why we have the golden cow in the budget. It is allowed to spend what it wants, use what it wants, and waste what it wants because it is the US Military. People like you have created a mindset that allows the single biggest bureacracy in the country to demand funds and get them like a trophy wife on a shopping spree.

And you dio this by insisting that cutting pennies from the budget will gut the military, embolden our enemies, and make us impotent in foreign affairs, resulting in nuclear wars and massive invasions that make Revelations look like a Dr. Seuss book. At the first mention of cutting the military budget at all you launch into the well rehearsed story of how the Supreme Ruler installed by our conquerers will lop off our heads and turn those who survive into slaves. And you end it with "and it will be all your fault and there will be no one to rescue us".

Creative writing is a nice hobby, Dixie. But what you have posted has little or no bearing on what has been discussed. Your story is sensationalism at best, and a fear-mongering strawman at worst.

I have studied world and US history, and can see the need for a military and still see the folly of the huge machine we have built. Its a pity you haven't the education or perhaps the intellect, to see it too. (see? I can be condescending as well as you can. I just do it with fewer outright insults.)
 
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