If evolution is teh realz then why is not it happeningg nows?

if the bible doesn't say evolution doesn't exist, how then is it contradictory?

creation set in motion evolution, thus, they are not contradictory. it is your definition of evolution that is contradictory, not that god can create and create evolution....be fruitful and multiply etc...

they are not contradictory and your OP does not disprove creationism.

I agree. They are not contradictory. It's entirely possible that the Creator (God) created the world and created evolution as its force guiding speciation.

This is a perfectly acceptable and plausible explanation. The only problem is that it is not a scientific one.
 
You example is a pretty lame example but can by called "evolution" by ignorant laymen...

Observed Natural Selection
(Survival of the fittest): Darwin's proposed mechanism for evolutionary change is observed in nature. Natural selection serves as a means of conservation, not one of creation. It explains survival of a species, not arrival of a species.

There is a major difference in trait changes between generations of a species over many years, and the introduction of a new species....... the fish will remain a fish, a bird will remain a bird and a chimp will not become a man, at least with man's present knowledge of the subject....

No there isn't. You don't know what you're talking about.
 
P.S.

while survival of the fittest is observed in nature, it is not absolute. We also observe survival of the weakest and survival of the luckiest. Every infant is the weakest of a species, and yet obviously, some of them survive or there would be no species at all. Similarly, when a whale swims through a school of fish swallowing 80%, the 20% that survived were not the fittest - they were the luckiest. Somehow "survival of the fittest" has become tautology. Only the fittest survive. How do we determine they were the fittest? Because they survived!
.

and what does this have to do with Evolutionary Theory? Who, besides an uninformed lay person, equates evolution with just survival of the fittest?
 
Haha....well, when you get back to defending evolution I'll join you...as a theory,
Its very intriguing and certainly has its possibilities....
It can be believed right alongside of most religions....but
It is far different than "natural selection" which is proven fact in my book

What are you talking about? That's a non-sense statement.
 
It's not really that so much as creationism and biological evolution are mutually exclusive or as Stephen Jay Gould called them NOMA (Non Overlapping Magisteria). Creationism is perfectly workable as a philosophical construct but it excludes it self from ever being science for a multiplicity of reason. Primary among those is that it does not model natural phenomena.

Natural phenomenon also dictates that mass can't create itself. There is also no natural phenomena which explains the origins of life in our universe. We have theories out the ass about it, but nothing is conclusive. If random natural occurrences originated living organisms to the degree we see them on Earth, shouldn't we be able to naturally replicate those occurrences? We can grow bacteria, we can manipulate cell structures and 'create' life in a controlled scientific environment... problem is, this requires "intelligence" to do. If the purely scientific concept of random natural occurrence were responsible for the vast array of life we find on our planet, scientists could just throw together the various components of life and *poof* it would emerge! So this idea fails the concepts of modeling any natural phenomena.
 
The thing that bugs me about that argument is, why should we refrain from teaching information? I can't speak for everyone, but I am a spiritualist who doesn't necessarily want "Baptist indoctrination" being taught in public schools, but the generic concept of the mere possibility of ID, without "religious" implications, can be taught with regard to origin of life, because it is one of many possibilities out there... and why wouldn't we want our children educated to this fact?

The overblown and exaggerated argument from the left, is rooted in the Atheistic movement, which seeks to destroy anything related to or associated with religious belief... it's an agenda! Liberals would rather have a group of 'extremists' shove their agenda down our kid's throats than to actually educate them on all the information. I staunchly oppose any religious doctrine being taught in school, unless it is in the context of a "religious studies" course, but ID is not based on religion or religious belief, it is based on sound and reasoned logic and is as valid a theory as any other currently being taught. Let me be clear, ID would not be taught and should not be taught in context of... God created Adam and Eve, etc.. That is a religious concept, and has no place in a public school science class. But the possibility that origins of life are the result of an outside intelligence source, is one of many very plausible concepts, and should be, at least taught to the children being educated.

Actually, the censoring of this information, is not much different than saying... We can't teach children Shakespeare because it is filled with vulgar sexual content, and they don't need to know those things, it has no purpose being taught to children as literature. You are essentially making the same argument regarding ID. Since it is associated somewhat with religious beliefs, you feel it is inappropriate material to be taught. I am for children being EDUCATED... meaning, they should be taught as much information as we can squeeze into their little mush-brains! There is very little I object to being taught as a part of the educational process, the more the better!

If you will notice, I have never said that ID should not be taught. I have adamantly insisted that it not be taught in science classes. Since the concept of intelligent design is unscientific, it belongs in a different venue than science.
 
If I could make one request, it is that people who oppose the Theory of Evolution actually read some about it.

Evolution is not "survival of the fittest".

Also, please take the time to look up the scientific useage of the word "theory". It is far from a guess.
 
i thought you couldn't teach an old dog new tricks...

seriously, this doesn't prove the absence of biblical creation. all it shows is that animals learn behavior and a certain trait is passed on as those who survive have that trait. do non evolutionist say that is not an impossibility?

Biblical intervention was completely unnecessary for life to form. The ONLY animals that required "God" or the bible were humans and we've only been on this planet for a moment in time. Even then, there have been seven different species of humans to walk the earth but only the Africanus survived.

The story of human creation is written in your blood, not in the bible.
 
If you will notice, I have never said that ID should not be taught. I have adamantly insisted that it not be taught in science classes. Since the concept of intelligent design is unscientific, it belongs in a different venue than science.

It's philosophy .. perfectly acceptable as philosophy, but never science.

Religion does not require fact, science does.
 
It's philosophy .. perfectly acceptable as philosophy, but never science.

Religion does not require fact, science does.

Covering it in a Comparative Religion class would be excellent. And that is one class I would love to see taught more.
 
If I could make one request, it is that people who oppose the Theory of Evolution actually read some about it.

Evolution is not "survival of the fittest".

Also, please take the time to look up the scientific useage of the word "theory". It is far from a guess.

It's just as far from "proven fact" too. :pke:
 
It's just as far from "proven fact" too. :pke:

It is far closer to a "proven fact" than it is to a "guess". You are confusing the words "theory" and "hypothesis".

Here is a good explanation of the differences.
(from http://wilstar.com/theories.htm)

"Lay people often misinterpret the language used by scientists. And for that reason, they sometimes draw the wrong conclusions as to what the scientific terms mean.

Three such terms that are often used interchangeably are "scientific law," "hypothesis," and "theory."

In layman’s terms, if something is said to be “just a theory,” it usually means that it is a mere guess, or is unproved. It might even lack credibility. But in scientific terms, a theory implies that something has been proven and is generally accepted as being true.

Here is what each of these terms means to a scientist:

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to describe, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and univseral, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don’t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.

Specifically, scientific laws must be simple, true, universal, and absolute. They represent the cornerstone of scientific discovery, because if a law ever did not apply, then all science based upon that law would collapse.

Some scientific laws, or laws of nature, include the law of gravity, Newton's laws of motion, the laws of thermodynamics, Boyle's law of gases, the law of conservation of mass and energy, and Hook’s law of elasticity.

Hypothesis: This is an educated guess based upon observation. It is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.

Theory: A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.

In fact, some laws, such as the law of gravity, can also be theories when taken more generally. The law of gravity is expressed as a single mathematical expression and is presumed to be true all over the universe and all through time. Without such an assumption, we can do no science based on gravity's effects. But from the law, we derived Einstein's General Theory of Relativity in which gravity plays a crucial role. The basic law is intact, but the theory expands it to include various and complex situations involving space and time.

The biggest difference between a law and a theory is that a theory is much more complex and dynamic. A law describes a single action, whereas a theory explains an entire group of related phenomena.

An analogy can be made using a slingshot and an automobile.

A scientific law is like a slingshot. A slingshot has but one moving part--the rubber band. If you put a rock in it and draw it back, the rock will fly out at a predictable speed, depending upon the distance the band is drawn back.

An automobile has many moving parts, all working in unison to perform the chore of transporting someone from one point to another point. An automobile is a complex piece of machinery. Sometimes, improvements are made to one or more component parts. A new set of spark plugs that are composed of a better alloy that can withstand heat better, for example, might replace the existing set. But the function of the automobile as a whole remains unchanged.

A theory is like the automobile. Components of it can be changed or improved upon, without changing the overall truth of the theory as a whole.

Some scientific theories include the theory of evolution, the theory of relativity, the atomic theory, and the quantum theory. All of these theories are well documented and proved beyond reasonable doubt. Yet scientists continue to tinker with the component hypotheses of each theory in an attempt to make them more elegant and concise, or to make them more all-encompassing. Theories can be tweaked, but they are seldom, if ever, entirely replaced.

A theory is developed only through the scientific method, meaning it is the final result of a series of rigorous processes. Note that a theory never becomes a law unless it was very narrow to begin with. Scientific laws must exist prior to the start of using the scientific method because, as stated earlier, laws are the foundation for all science. Here is an oversimplified example of the development of a scientific theory:

Development of a Simple Theory by the Scientific Method:

Observation: Every swan I've ever seen is white.
Hypothesis: All swans must be white.
Test: A random sampling of swans from each continent where swans are indigenous produces only white swans.
Publication: "My global research has indicated that swans are always white, wherever they are observed."
Verification: Every swan any other scientist has ever observed in any country has always been white.
Theory: All swans are white.
Prediction: The next swan I see will be white.

Note, however, that although the prediction is useful, the theory does not absolutely prove that the next swan I see will be white. Thus it is said to be falsifiable. If anyone ever saw a black swan, the theory would have to be tweaked or thrown out. (And yes, there are really black swans. This example was just to illustrate the point.)

Real scientific theories must be falsifiable. So-called "theories" based on religion, such as creationism or intelligent design are, therefore, not scientific theories. They are not falsifiable and they do not follow the scientific method."
 
It is far closer to a "proven fact" than it is to a "guess". You are confusing the words "theory" and "hypothesis".

Here is a good explanation of the differences.
(from http://wilstar.com/theories.htm)

"Lay people often misinterpret the language used by scientists. And for that reason, they sometimes draw the wrong conclusions as to what the scientific terms mean.

Three such terms that are often used interchangeably are "scientific law," "hypothesis," and "theory."

In layman’s terms, if something is said to be “just a theory,” it usually means that it is a mere guess, or is unproved. It might even lack credibility. But in scientific terms, a theory implies that something has been proven and is generally accepted as being true.

Here is what each of these terms means to a scientist:

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to describe, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and univseral, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don’t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.

Specifically, scientific laws must be simple, true, universal, and absolute. They represent the cornerstone of scientific discovery, because if a law ever did not apply, then all science based upon that law would collapse.

Some scientific laws, or laws of nature, include the law of gravity, Newton's laws of motion, the laws of thermodynamics, Boyle's law of gases, the law of conservation of mass and energy, and Hook’s law of elasticity.

Hypothesis: This is an educated guess based upon observation. It is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.

Theory: A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.

In fact, some laws, such as the law of gravity, can also be theories when taken more generally. The law of gravity is expressed as a single mathematical expression and is presumed to be true all over the universe and all through time. Without such an assumption, we can do no science based on gravity's effects. But from the law, we derived Einstein's General Theory of Relativity in which gravity plays a crucial role. The basic law is intact, but the theory expands it to include various and complex situations involving space and time.

The biggest difference between a law and a theory is that a theory is much more complex and dynamic. A law describes a single action, whereas a theory explains an entire group of related phenomena.

An analogy can be made using a slingshot and an automobile.

A scientific law is like a slingshot. A slingshot has but one moving part--the rubber band. If you put a rock in it and draw it back, the rock will fly out at a predictable speed, depending upon the distance the band is drawn back.

An automobile has many moving parts, all working in unison to perform the chore of transporting someone from one point to another point. An automobile is a complex piece of machinery. Sometimes, improvements are made to one or more component parts. A new set of spark plugs that are composed of a better alloy that can withstand heat better, for example, might replace the existing set. But the function of the automobile as a whole remains unchanged.

A theory is like the automobile. Components of it can be changed or improved upon, without changing the overall truth of the theory as a whole.

Some scientific theories include the theory of evolution, the theory of relativity, the atomic theory, and the quantum theory. All of these theories are well documented and proved beyond reasonable doubt. Yet scientists continue to tinker with the component hypotheses of each theory in an attempt to make them more elegant and concise, or to make them more all-encompassing. Theories can be tweaked, but they are seldom, if ever, entirely replaced.

A theory is developed only through the scientific method, meaning it is the final result of a series of rigorous processes. Note that a theory never becomes a law unless it was very narrow to begin with. Scientific laws must exist prior to the start of using the scientific method because, as stated earlier, laws are the foundation for all science. Here is an oversimplified example of the development of a scientific theory:

Development of a Simple Theory by the Scientific Method:

Observation: Every swan I've ever seen is white.
Hypothesis: All swans must be white.
Test: A random sampling of swans from each continent where swans are indigenous produces only white swans.
Publication: "My global research has indicated that swans are always white, wherever they are observed."
Verification: Every swan any other scientist has ever observed in any country has always been white.
Theory: All swans are white.
Prediction: The next swan I see will be white.

Note, however, that although the prediction is useful, the theory does not absolutely prove that the next swan I see will be white. Thus it is said to be falsifiable. If anyone ever saw a black swan, the theory would have to be tweaked or thrown out. (And yes, there are really black swans. This example was just to illustrate the point.)

Real scientific theories must be falsifiable. So-called "theories" based on religion, such as creationism or intelligent design are, therefore, not scientific theories. They are not falsifiable and they do not follow the scientific method."

I used to know a black Swan.
 
I used to know a black Swan.

I have seen a few of them. They are native to australia. And, as the author said, he only used that as an example.



Funny that I walked away from being a science teacher, and now I am having to explain scientific terminology to (supposedly) educated people.
 
Well, ID does indeed deal with origin. It is the theory that intelligence designed life at point of origin, or that intelligence created the condition for the origin. It furthermore adds, that "evolution" and/or "Abiogenesis" is the result of a design by intelligence.

No, it does not. What is the origin of that intelligence?
 
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